How the G90/95 should look (tried to design it).

This evening I had some thoughts on how the G90 (or some other G80markII kind of cam) should look.

It came to my mind especially that almost no camera's have a videorec button in a comfortable position. I Always have to do some fingeryoga to get there and I wonder why. On other cams these rec buttons are not on the topplate but on the back...More awkward. And sometimes you started to record video because you accidentally touched it...

But I also thought of how to add a joystick for AF in a good place since on a G7 like body (which is the max size I would want in a G90) where it does not become cramped and I think I came up with a workable solution, but who knows.

Here is what I came up with. What do you think? Would the design, if possible, appeal to you. Does it make sense or are there clear downsides? Thanks.

May be a joystick for a cam nelow 1000 euro is too much to ask. Could be.

The topdial is from the G7. It has a panorama mode which I would like to have. G80 has C1 and C2 where G7 only had C. Well. Does not really matter. I think the leftdial with built in focusstick could have a Hires setting on it additionally. But these are just details

How would it look compared to some other mFT cams to give you a clue. Much like a G7/G80 but with a different, bigger grip.

I think the shutterbutton, which I borrowed from G80 and enlarged it is poistioned just right to be comfortable and to easily accomodate a large Rec button without the possibility these get confused by the user.

oh and the specs ( I have mentioned these so many times, but to be complete):

Think of the G80 but with the design above, 20 MP sensor, preferably 3,6 MP EVF with no blackouts during bursts, joystick, a bit better 4K video, GH4/G9 battery.
Speed not like the G9, but a bit faster than the G80 still. IBIS like the G80 or a bit better would be okey. And in contrast with the G7 it needs to be dust/splash proof in my opinion. Single cardslot.Etc.

Jorginho wrote:

This evening I had some thoughts on how the G90 (or some other G80markII kind of cam) should look.

It came to my mind especially that almost no camera's have a videorec button in a comfortable position. I Always have to do some fingeryoga to get there and I wonder why. On other cams these rec buttons are not on the topplate but on the back...More awkward. And sometimes you started to record video because you accidentally touched it...

But I also thought of how to add a joystick for AF in a good place since on a G7 like body (which is the max size I would want in a G90) where it does not become cramped and I think I came up with a workable solution, but who knows.

Here is what I came up with. What do you think? Would the design, if possible, appeal to you. Does it make sense or are there clear downsides? Thanks.

May be a joystick for a cam nelow 1000 euro is too much to ask. Could be.

The topdial is from the G7. It has a panorama mode which I would like to have. G80 has C1 and C2 where G7 only had C. Well. Does not really matter. I think the leftdial with built in focusstick could have a Hires setting on it additionally. But these are just details

How would it look compared to some other mFT cams to give you a clue. Much like a G7/G80 but with a different, bigger grip.

I think the shutterbutton, which I borrowed from G80 and enlarged it is poistioned just right to be comfortable and to easily accomodate a large Rec button without the possibility these get confused by the user.

oh and the specs ( I have mentioned these so many times, but to be complete):

Think of the G80 but with the design above, 20 MP sensor, preferably 3,6 MP EVF with no blackouts during bursts, joystick, a bit better 4K video, GH4/G9 battery.
Speed not like the G9, but a bit faster than the G80 still. IBIS like the G80 or a bit better would be okey. And in contrast with the G7 it needs to be dust/splash proof in my opinion. Single cardslot.Etc.

If it has a mic jack and headphone port and twisty screen as well as fast focusing it could be the ultimate vloggers camera and the first low light vloggers camera ever.

Wellington100 wrote:

Jorginho wrote:

This evening I had some thoughts on how the G90 (or some other G80markII kind of cam) should look.

It came to my mind especially that almost no camera's have a videorec button in a comfortable position. I Always have to do some fingeryoga to get there and I wonder why. On other cams these rec buttons are not on the topplate but on the back...More awkward. And sometimes you started to record video because you accidentally touched it...

But I also thought of how to add a joystick for AF in a good place since on a G7 like body (which is the max size I would want in a G90) where it does not become cramped and I think I came up with a workable solution, but who knows.

Here is what I came up with. What do you think? Would the design, if possible, appeal to you. Does it make sense or are there clear downsides? Thanks.

May be a joystick for a cam nelow 1000 euro is too much to ask. Could be.

The topdial is from the G7. It has a panorama mode which I would like to have. G80 has C1 and C2 where G7 only had C. Well. Does not really matter. I think the leftdial with built in focusstick could have a Hires setting on it additionally. But these are just details

How would it look compared to some other mFT cams to give you a clue. Much like a G7/G80 but with a different, bigger grip.

I think the shutterbutton, which I borrowed from G80 and enlarged it is poistioned just right to be comfortable and to easily accomodate a large Rec button without the possibility these get confused by the user.

oh and the specs ( I have mentioned these so many times, but to be complete):

Think of the G80 but with the design above, 20 MP sensor, preferably 3,6 MP EVF with no blackouts during bursts, joystick, a bit better 4K video, GH4/G9 battery.
Speed not like the G9, but a bit faster than the G80 still. IBIS like the G80 or a bit better would be okey. And in contrast with the G7 it needs to be dust/splash proof in my opinion. Single cardslot.Etc.

If it has a mic jack and headphone port and twisty screen as well as fast focusing it could be the ultimate vloggers camera and the first low light vloggers camera ever.

It's fun playing designer isn't it I do it all the time. Do companies hire people located in the USA to do these things? I see people post thought experiments on DPreview often. If someone decided they wanted to be part of the "next big thing" in photography is it possible to get a job?

Not that my design is radical or fantastic in anyway. It is so simple and I tried to see if it would work on my GH4 or EM1.2 and it would be better.

G9 joystickposition seems okey for sure but still if you have only one hand to use, moving your thumb to the joystick position means you lose your grip and it becomes less ergonomic. Also: the space next to the EVF is crammed. It will work fine. Anyway: where I positioned it, it is a lot better from that perspective.

What could be possible is to make the AE/AFlock button a joystrick. Push it in and AF/AF is locked, move it and it is joystick? Don't know if people would like to use both at the same time, which of course would be impossible.

Yes it is a fun thing to do. Most of all when at least to my mind small changes would make a cam function better, more ergonomic and make better use of a small space. But I am not saying that is a fact, that is how I feel.

AlwaysLearning4 wrote:

Wellington100 wrote:

Jorginho wrote:

This evening I had some thoughts on how the G90 (or some other G80markII kind of cam) should look.

It came to my mind especially that almost no camera's have a videorec button in a comfortable position. I Always have to do some fingeryoga to get there and I wonder why. On other cams these rec buttons are not on the topplate but on the back...More awkward. And sometimes you started to record video because you accidentally touched it...

But I also thought of how to add a joystick for AF in a good place since on a G7 like body (which is the max size I would want in a G90) where it does not become cramped and I think I came up with a workable solution, but who knows.

Here is what I came up with. What do you think? Would the design, if possible, appeal to you. Does it make sense or are there clear downsides? Thanks.

May be a joystick for a cam nelow 1000 euro is too much to ask. Could be.

The topdial is from the G7. It has a panorama mode which I would like to have. G80 has C1 and C2 where G7 only had C. Well. Does not really matter. I think the leftdial with built in focusstick could have a Hires setting on it additionally. But these are just details

How would it look compared to some other mFT cams to give you a clue. Much like a G7/G80 but with a different, bigger grip.

I think the shutterbutton, which I borrowed from G80 and enlarged it is poistioned just right to be comfortable and to easily accomodate a large Rec button without the possibility these get confused by the user.

oh and the specs ( I have mentioned these so many times, but to be complete):

Think of the G80 but with the design above, 20 MP sensor, preferably 3,6 MP EVF with no blackouts during bursts, joystick, a bit better 4K video, GH4/G9 battery.
Speed not like the G9, but a bit faster than the G80 still. IBIS like the G80 or a bit better would be okey. And in contrast with the G7 it needs to be dust/splash proof in my opinion. Single cardslot.Etc.

If it has a mic jack and headphone port and twisty screen as well as fast focusing it could be the ultimate vloggers camera and the first low light vloggers camera ever.

It's fun playing designer isn't it I do it all the time. Do companies hire people located in the USA to do these things? I see people post thought experiments on DPreview often. If someone decided they wanted to be part of the "next big thing" in photography is it possible to get a job?

Ummm, this is a gear forum in case you have not noticed

When you start to try to design something of your own (well: more looking at competitors and what they bring to the table that might be nice), you start to think about some designs.

Like when it comes to the G9: why is the topplate so large. In the example below I took the Samsung NX1 topplate. Even smaller could be the X-H1 but the Samsung fitted better,

The dial at the right from the EVF is irtually identical to the one used on the GX8 topplate (the on that sits on top of the other). Nothing wrong with it, certainly if you want to keep the design small.

I now made the shutter also the on/off switch. The aperature dial sits below that on the front on the back (hardly visible) is the dial for shutterspeed for instance.

The dial left to the EVF now includes a panorama mode and 80 (MP should have been added below the 80) is the HiRes mode so you can set it there.

Trying to keep the size like the G7. It fits in 2D, does it fit in 3D and how much weight would it add?

If such a cam could be made with those specs and this size. to my mind it comes a lot closer to what people expect from a cameraseries which names start with "Micro". The size of the G9 and GH5 is there for a reason, but it is not for everybody. 1600-2000 euro/dollar isn't either.

The G9 now is at 1300 euro a sI mentioned before. This cam should be 800 euro/dollar or so if it has 2,3 MP EVF no toplcd nor joystick. If it would have 3,6 MP EVF, joystick and may be the toplcd a 1000 euro would be acceptable I think. I would personally drop any of these to keep the price at 900 euro/dollar max. I have however NO clue if I am being realistic here at all.

So 20 MP, G7 fromfactor, G9 battery and everything else just a bit better than G80 is right now (7,5 fps C-AF, 5axis 4 stops vs 3,5 etcetc). So it is not the speeddemon the G9 is and it probably does not need all the procesing power, hencecan be kept smaller (less heat) and cheaper. At least that is my theory

Certainly if Panasonic somehow could add good OSPDAF for stills and video, combined with their great DFD2, this cam would be mFTs equivalent of the Sony A7III.

Dial incorporated upper right corner, smaller dial at the righthandside of the EVF and topplate LCD incorporated on top...FWIW. Bit messy, but okey...

jwilliams wrote:

Haven't heard anything official and rumor was the G80/85 line is dead.

Yes. But nothing I write here ahs got anything to do with reality of course. Just some users fantasy mostly. We can dream.

I would say that a A7III is the FF equivalent of what a G90 should be. G9 is not it, GX9 for sure ain't it either. I think the 750-1000 dollar/euro segment currently is not well tended for currently. So there is a hole there and it is the price range where the G80 fitted in nicely. A G90 would do the same. No FF cam with specs anywhere close to what I wrote down is possible, so no competition there. X-T100 Fuji comes to mind, but it is underwhelming in reality.

To me it would seem exceedingly stupid to discontinue what is really the beast all around camera in m43, but lots of stupid stuff going on in m43 lately.

I think a lot of good stuff is going on lately. Lenses are really nice, we have everything (almost) that we want or need. High end lenses are fine, since the mid and lower end is also well spec'd.

The only thing is that there is just no enthusiast am available that is modern by todays standards and up for tomorrows demands. G80 not and EM5.23 surely not. I agree they can score here with a very good cam without getting compared to FF (yet again) because the price is somewhat similar to that A7III.

As far as the update, if they just put the 20MP chip in and give it the G9 processing I would be happy. I haven't bought a m43 camera in a very long time and at the moment it looks like I may never buy one. If they can do a simple update without screwing up it up and keep the price reasonable it would be a camera I probably would buy.

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Jonathan

Rumours have it that G90 is going to be a mini GH5s. Now that rumour is not rated as very reliable, but as somewhat reliable. I think very very few photographers would welcome such a G90 instead I think it could infuriate quite a few as , IF it happens, Panasonic is losig touch with the photographers community. Sad because we can see how they now very well how to make a good hybrid cam. Like....the G80. I hope they will realise such a cam is needed, a revamped one.

tt321 wrote:

dinoSnake wrote:

Jorginho wrote

Think of the G80 but with the design above, 20 MP sensor, preferably 3,6 MP EVF with no blackouts during bursts, joystick, a bit better 4K video, GH4/G9 battery.

Speed not like the G9, but a bit faster than the G80 still. IBIS like the G80 or a bit better would be okey. And in contrast with the G7 it needs to be dust/splash proof in my opinion. Single cardslot.Etc.

Don't make reasonable requests, it's just teasing 😛 It's not as if they're listening to us, giving us, the consumers, what we want... (crickets)

OK, OK, supposedly the G9 was in response to customer feedback. Apparently *somebody* wanted a m43 body that big. I'm not sure who, exactly, maybe the consumers who "promised" to switch over to m43, from their current system, "if only..." but we'll really never know.

Conversely, they massively listened to the super loud noise this forum made on wanting a rangefinder-style body with built-in VF in the upper left corner to produce the GX7, which was the first mFT in that configuration. Turned out that those loud noises were made by Oly fanatics who wanted a Pen in that configuration, and would not get close to anything Pana. My observation was that none - zero - of those loudly asking for such a camera here actually bought a GX7. And the GX7 is said to be one of the least successful commercially when it was one year old, compared to all other system cameras that were approx. one year old at the same time.

I'm surprised to hear the GX7 was a flop, it got great reviews. I know some felt it was too small and welcomed the arrival of the GX8 - a camera which surely was an even bigger flop? Then again numbers sold is no mark of success if the margins are really tight. The Sony A6000 was a real good seller yet Sony clearly sees FF as the money earner. They were smart and used APS-C cameras to steer you towards their FF offerings - probably why they were slow at producing APS-C lenses too.

They were taught a clear lesson by this forum, and will never ever listen to it again.

It's safe to say that the G9, at this point of its life, is massively more popular if you count forum member owners, compared to the GX7 at a similar time after release. Nobody asked for a G9 like that, and quite a few bought one

Every flagship model is popular here until the next one arrives - it's a given here. I know many moan about the G9 size/weight but it's surely a better fit if you are using the big pro lenses? I think people believe that beyond a certain size body you lose key advantages and other formats begin to look better and there is some truth in that - as long as you are fine with maintaining multiple systems.

What about those m43 users who want the best but rarely need big/heavy lenses? For them a G7/GX8-like body is perfect. They'd have to price it right of course!

jwilliams wrote:

Jorginho wrote:

jwilliams wrote:

Haven't heard anything official and rumor was the G80/85 line is dead.

Yes. But nothing I write here ahs got anything to do with reality of course. Just some users fantasy mostly. We can dream.

I would say that a A7III is the FF equivalent of what a G90 should be. G9 is not it, GX9 for sure ain't it either. I think the 750-1000 dollar/euro segment currently is not well tended for currently. So there is a hole there and it is the price range where the G80 fitted in nicely. A G90 would do the same. No FF cam with specs anywhere close to what I wrote down is possible, so no competition there. X-T100 Fuji comes to mind, but it is underwhelming in reality.

Lots of sub$1K APSC cameras available that have way better IQ. Can't they see this?

I don't agree with the IQ, but suppose you feel this way there is nothing they can do since the GX9 is sub1000 and has the best possible mFT IQ. We just cannot expect miracles which is why I did nt mention a better sensor but went for a cam that can be put together with current tech (don't know if the G7 provides enough space for those items I chose).

So the me the keyword is "performance". Enthusiast performance to my mind means: Swiss army knife of cams. G9 is it too, but it is the Swiss Army Knife Rambostyle. No such mFT currently is made like that. GX9 lacks a good EVF that is beyond critique. It lacks the right formfactor, the speed for action, the ergonomics I think too.
Long story short: G80 2019 style is needed.

To me it would seem exceedingly stupid to discontinue what is really the beast all around camera in m43, but lots of stupid stuff going on in m43 lately.

I think a lot of good stuff is going on lately. Lenses are really nice, we have everything (almost) that we want or need. High end lenses are fine, since the mid and lower end is also well spec'd.

The only thing is that there is just no enthusiast am available that is modern by todays standards and up for tomorrows demands. G80 not and EM5.23 surely not. I agree they can score here with a very good cam without getting compared to FF (yet again) because the price is somewhat similar to that A7III.

As far as the update, if they just put the 20MP chip in and give it the G9 processing I would be happy. I haven't bought a m43 camera in a very long time and at the moment it looks like I may never buy one. If they can do a simple update without screwing up it up and keep the price reasonable it would be a camera I probably would buy.

Rumours have it that G90 is going to be a mini GH5s. Now that rumour is not rated as very reliable, but as somewhat reliable. I think very very few photographers would welcome such a G90 instead I think it could infuriate quite a few as , IF it happens, Panasonic is losig touch with the photographers community. Sad because we can see how they now very well how to make a good hybrid cam. Like....the G80. I hope they will realise such a cam is needed, a revamped one.

For all I care they could leave video completely off. Even the lowest spec Panny has more video capabilities than you average user needs. They have neglected the stills end of things for waaaay too long.

I have an Em1.2. For all I care a whole G90 could never materilase and personally I would be fine. So this is more a broader perspective, just looking at the current line up and what is missing and what could be done. A G90 needs good video, usable modern video. So 4k 100 Mb 30P cuts it. AF needs to be better, certainly if you are Panasonic and you are known mostly (for al the right or wrong reasons) for your video capabilites...

Part of this probably is due to their insistence to keep using the old outdated 16MP chip. More resolution doesn't help video so they can add capabilities via software, which is cheap, while ignoring the stills end of thigs. Extremely frustrating for those that just want to take photographs.

20 MP does help video though. I agree that a G90 should be much like a G9 mini, so video should not be in the way of photo. 4K 100 Mb/s 30P is nothing that demands a lot from such a cam. G80 had it 2 years ago. Can be added without any sacrficie I think.

Sorry, but why not get a dedicated video cam?