My Nikon Z Mirrorless Rant to Nikon R&D and Corporate Marketing

These cameras do not meet your needs as a professional photographer because they are not marketed to you as a professional photographer.

I dare say Nikon has a good understanding of what professional photographers need - they have been successfully selling cameras to professionals for decades. They didn't ask you what you needed in these cameras because they were not expecting you to buy these cameras. If you do, it will be a bonus, but the tools they expect you to buy are still coming.

You do exceptional high level work. You obviously have the cameras and lenses you need to do this work. That equipment worked perfectly well right up until the day of the announcement and will keep working perfectly well. There is absolutely no need for you to buy new equipment that doesn't meet your needs or to shift to another camera brand that obviously doesn't meet your needs either - if it did you would have shifted before now.

Indeed the system is a conundrum.  It looks and is priced in the pro stratosphere, yet it only has one card slot.  The body is compact, but the lenses are not.  The door is open for Canon to swoop in and do it right.

Reading all those posts of people who are ok with one slot, many self titled "wildlife" and "action" shooters calling the OP a troll or telling him his image as a pro will lose value because he is annoyed with the one card issue i have to ask. What are you when all of you admit this is not a wildlife camera, not an action camera, you will not buy one and keep talking about how one slot is fine for YOUR use? Why will his image lose value, because he did not praise your beloved company? Because your new shiny toy is useless for him and he will not admire your new purchase? How insecure and idiotic must someone be to attack the feedback from a well known photographer who is disapointed that the company he is heavily invested in and likes to use let him down? Does it register with you how oxymoron is that as you admit, the camera is not for wildlife and action photograpers, as you point out to the OP it is not for him and other fashion photographers because of the one card, the price makes it unreachable for many hobbyists and yet your declare it will sell good? To who? How much more brand blindness before you seek help?

To all the brand trolls: you do a disservice to your beloved brand that you so blindly, faithfully and childishly try to protect. You do disservice to your brand when not only you do not give honest feedback but you attack personally people who do give creative feedback. You damage yourselves and others when you are trying to silence different opinions. You do yourselves and others injustice when you are defending in this case Nikon which expects people to spend 2 or 3 or 4k usd, euros etc for a camera that has missing features or subpar performance or technology by today's standards for whatever reason. You should look into yourselves before you call people trolls just because they have a different opinion or different wishes. Go in threads that praise the cameras and join others who agree with you, let people who have issues with the cameras discuss that without getting insulted and flamed.

To the OP: i admire your work, great pictures, amazing work. As for your frustration, it's interesting to see what a professional and highly achieved photographer thinks about the new cameras and how they fit or not to his world of photography. I share your frustration, i waited long time for Nikon to give me the opportunity to use a mirrorless camera without having to replace all my lenses before i added a Sony A7R3 to my bag, superb camera. I think Nikon should have offered the Z7 with dual cards, even if it meant sd cards. The camera as so many wildlife and action photograpers point out is not for them, they rather use D850, so the maximum speed in emptying the buffer is not really needed, Nikon should have offered redundancy and target professionals like you since they did not manage to add options and performance that would appeal to action photograpers . They managed somehow to exlude so many important categories of photographers as potential buyers in one way or another that makes one wonder who do they think they will sell the Z7 to?

New Day Rising wrote:

These cameras do not meet your needs as a professional photographer because they are not marketed to you as a professional photographer.

He was only looking for the second card slot, something that was on my D7000 53 years ago. Hardly a professional stretch.

I dare say Nikon has a good understanding of what professional photographers need - they have been successfully selling cameras to professionals for decades.

Don't let that fool you.  They're as close to idiots as they are to geniuses.

They didn't ask you what you needed in these cameras because they were not expecting you to buy these cameras. If you do, it will be a bonus, but the tools they expect you to buy are still coming.

Ah come on.  Two card slots are about as standard equipment as one can get.

You do exceptional high level work. You obviously have the cameras and lenses you need to do this work. That equipment worked perfectly well right up until the day of the announcement and will keep working perfectly well. There is absolutely no need for you to buy new equipment that doesn't meet your needs or to shift to another camera brand that obviously doesn't meet your needs either - if it did you would have shifted before now.

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Happiness lies in thinking or doing that which one considers beautiful - HIK

It's tough dealing with fanboys.

nigelht wrote:

T O Shooter wrote:

nigelht wrote:

T O Shooter wrote:

nigelht wrote:

T O Shooter wrote:

Benjamin, Benamin, Benjamin

I could have warned you. You've waded into a cesspool of stupidity.

Differing opinion isn’t stupidity. Neither is responding to yet another closed minded rant with less than polite responses unexpected.

I was going to reply and tell you what to expect when you only had one reply, but too early in Toronto and I had a couple of things I needed to do.

You've got the -

• the camera is not for you if you need two slots
• you are not Nikon's targeted market

These two statements are true. He’s not in the target market and it only has one card slot so if you need two it’s a show stopper.

Eventually we won’t need two slots even for pros when wireless tethering finally works reliably. While that’s not likely to be 2019 eventually you’ll be able to do so in the not too distant future.

• this is not a pro camera ( at the price of a D850 ), although one is coming

I believe that the Z6 will be a popular pro camera for the pro users that Nikon is looking at for the first round of cameras. Folks that shoot both stills and video. Like wedding pros.

The Z7 is also nice for video but the Z6 is better and cheaper so going with the Z6 strikes me as the no brainer except for a few edge cases.

The one card limitation isn’t an issue when it is the compressed h.264 backup to the primary video shot to 8-bit 422 ProRes on the Atomos.

So instead of raging against the new Zs, why not try to understand that Nikon put a lot of effort into becoming competitive in video with this generation of bodies and not replacing the DSLRs.

FWIW, I'd have no problem buying it with one XQD. And again, FWIW, I was a fan of XQD back when it was referred to as the Betamax of memory cards. About 6+ years ago.

But Benjamin is still right.

Right about what? He ranted about a camera designed for a different kind of pro not being good for other types of pro's (wedding, event, etc) that he's NOT. For fashion, as he said, he can shoot tethered.

Evidently Nikon talked to quite a few video pros but I guess they aren't REAL pros to him. Because even if the future A7SIII is better for video the Z6 looks very very competitive.

The Z6 is also going to be an awesome camera for many wedding pros because if you can't do 4K then someone else has a competitive edge over you because its more annoying to have to hire both a photographer and videographer.

I have 2 daughters. On their day, if you don't have a video portfolio I'm not even going to look at you. You better have a killer stills AND video portfolio because this isn't the 2000s anymore.

Why???

Other than for one upmanship over your friends, there's little reason. it's fake reality. Give me a number on what you think it'll cost for that "killer stills AND video portfolio" and I'll make some more comments.

Why what? That I want video?

Because video can often capture more than a static image can.

You know, like an exchange of personalized vows, the maid of honor clowning around with the bride during makeup, friends reminiscing about the bride and groom, the first dance, best man toast, the last time grandma was alive and giving her blessing. Stuff where audio and video makes the moment and cant be captured in an instantaneous image. To not just see a great photo of grandma but to also hear her voice and what she said.

Cost is whatever the budget is. Around here wedding videographers start at $1200 for a one man band. Packages with 2 shooters including photos start around $3k. I’d say to get a decent basic stills and video package would really start around $4K and not $3. Then the sky is the limit depending on what you want.

Odds are most folks rarely look at their wedding album or video until someone important in it is gone or a major anniversary. Then a video is nicer.

Fake reality? No. Real memories. Yes.

"fake reality" and "rarely look at" are the keywords here.

But 4 or 5k is not bad, although many pay the down payment if not the full cost of a house ( not here in Toronto ) on a wedding. Fake reality, bragging rights especially now with social media, and a load of debt or money better spent on real reality.

kiwi2 wrote:

Benjamin Kanarek wrote:

Oh and that battery, insignificant lens selection and poor lens adaption using the lens adapter and sub-par performance in AF speed and accuracy, lets not even go there for now. Hopefully, those problems can be addressed in future firmware updates. Those were simple things to consider. Any REAL pro you consulted with would have told you that 1 card slot is a huge NO! Who did you consult with

It's funny watching everybody here making excuses for these things when a couple of years ago the same people were saying exactly the same things to beat up on Sony with....

www.dpreview.com/forums/post/56829980

www.dpreview.com/forums/post/56819751

I was thinking "same people" in general, not "same people" as in one member. You're right - it's funny.

nuke12 wrote:

Look guys, give the fellow a break. He really is one heck of a good model photographer.

I think he did right by telling Nikon his concerns but it was a mistake to post them here with all the crap that is going on. This place is a hornet's nest at the moment.

Perhaps it’s a hornets nest because he’s right.

I do have two XQD cards in my D5, set to backing-up. My newer D850, which I have yet to use for anything serious, has one card inside it, at the moment.

I am not a “pro” photographer, but before my recent retirement, did shoot images, for official purposes, documenting crime scenes, crime victims’ injuries, and evidence. When it seemed prudent, I would shoot two sets of images, with two 7D cameras that had single card slots. When I upgraded to 7D II cameras with dual card slots, I was less likely to shoot the same images with two cameras, but sometimes, still did so, anyway.

My wife shot death scene images for the Medical Examiner’s office, for 21 years. The film SLRs, of course, held one roll of film. When she was issued a Canon 40D digital camera, it had one card slot. When she was issued a D300s, with two card slots, she used the second slot for overflow. When she was allowed to use personal cameras, she used the second slot of her D7000 for overflow. Now retired, she uses the second slots of her D500 and D850 cameras for overflow. (She wants a Z7, with the 24-70/4 Z lens, like the one we handled at a Nikon launch event in Houston last evening. )

A memory card is a point of failure. XQD cards are sturdier than SD cards, and according to some sources, are better-built internally, too.

A card slot is a point of failure. It is CF card slots that have the delicate pins. XQD card slots have no such pins.

Cameras have multiple failure points. The images may never make it to the card(s).

I, the shooter, am a point of failure. I am the weakest link. If I have one card, I had better not drop or damage that card, or negligently delete important images.

I think it is likely that there will be more-pro-like Z cameras, in the future, and, inevitably, a more consumer-oriented Z camera. I believe Nikon felt compelled to announce something before Photokina, that was more substantial than a teaser. The Z7 is a probe, launched into the high-end enthusiast market. The Z6 is a probe, launched into the mid-level enthusiast market. These probes send information back to the Nikon home world, which is valuable for subsequent missions.

Chill out already. A pro, as you call yourself, you should realize that a backup camera is far more critical than two card slots. If your camera breaks down, your two card slot won't help you. Looks like you have not upgraded your gear for a while, so why the gripe regarding the new Nikon mirror less ?

T O Shooter wrote:

nigelht wrote:

T O Shooter wrote:

Why???

Other than for one upmanship over your friends, there's little reason. it's fake reality. Give me a number on what you think it'll cost for that "killer stills AND video portfolio" and I'll make some more comments.

Why what? That I want video?

Because video can often capture more than a static image can.

You know, like an exchange of personalized vows, the maid of honor clowning around with the bride during makeup, friends reminiscing about the bride and groom, the first dance, best man toast, the last time grandma was alive and giving her blessing. Stuff where audio and video makes the moment and cant be captured in an instantaneous image. To not just see a great photo of grandma but to also hear her voice and what she said.

Cost is whatever the budget is. Around here wedding videographers start at $1200 for a one man band. Packages with 2 shooters including photos start around $3k. I’d say to get a decent basic stills and video package would really start around $4K and not $3. Then the sky is the limit depending on what you want.

Odds are most folks rarely look at their wedding album or video until someone important in it is gone or a major anniversary. Then a video is nicer.

Fake reality? No. Real memories. Yes.

"fake reality" and "rarely look at" are the keywords here.

But 4 or 5k is not bad, although many pay the down payment if not the full cost of a house ( not here in Toronto ) on a wedding. Fake reality, bragging rights especially now with social media, and a load of debt or money better spent on real reality.

Doesn't matter if you call it "fake reality" or whatever. Video is a revenue stream and competitive advantage for wedding pros to offer one stop shopping.

The more services you can competently offer the more lucrative a client you can handle. As a business owner you want to do a $1500 wedding as a solo photo shooter or a $5000 wedding with 2 shooters for both video and photos? The market exists.

What are you going to do when the wedding videographer says "hey, for another $1000 I can add another person for photos, you don't need to hire a seperate photographer.  Here look at our portfolio and see if you would like that".

Having a system, whether Sony, Nikon or whomever, that can handle both video and stills makes life easier than needing two sets of lenses, two sets of batteries, etc.

For the OP why isn't a combination of D850 for stills and Z6 for video a better combination than having both Nikon and Fuji cameras?

if our memory cards are so reliable, why this?

https://www.dpreview.com/news/1958232404/sony-launches-new-line-of-rugged-sd-memory-cards

111 posts in 11 hours!

Oops, this one makes 112. Just when the universe is in balance, it's thrown back into chaos.

They are copying what has already been done by Delkin - the Delkin Black SD Card

Definitely a better build quality and after having had an SD card slot damaged by a disintegrating SanDisk SD card, I only use Delkin Black now - cheaper than a camera repair!

T O Shooter wrote:

if our memory cards are so reliable, why this?

https://www.dpreview.com/news/1958232404/sony-launches-new-line-of-rugged-sd-memory-cards

haha  perhaps Sony just obsoleted XQD...

T O Shooter wrote:

New Day Rising wrote:

These cameras do not meet your needs as a professional photographer because they are not marketed to you as a professional photographer.

He was only looking for the second card slot, something that was on my D7000 53 years ago. Hardly a professional stretch.

53 years??? It may not be a professional stretch, but obviously if he needs two slots, which is a reasonable need, these are not the cameras for him.

I dare say Nikon has a good understanding of what professional photographers need - they have been successfully selling cameras to professionals for decades.

Don't let that fool you. They're as close to idiots as they are to geniuses.

That's your judgement.

They didn't ask you what you needed in these cameras because they were not expecting you to buy these cameras. If you do, it will be a bonus, but the tools they expect you to buy are still coming.

Ah come on. Two card slots are about as standard equipment as one can get.

On most high end cameras, sure. Nikon have decided for whatever reason to remove it from their D7xxx series. I liked the dual slots in my D7200 and think it is the better approach, but am not emotionally invested in Nikon's business decisions.

You do exceptional high level work. You obviously have the cameras and lenses you need to do this work. That equipment worked perfectly well right up until the day of the announcement and will keep working perfectly well. There is absolutely no need for you to buy new equipment that doesn't meet your needs or to shift to another camera brand that obviously doesn't meet your needs either - if it did you would have shifted before now.

It's tough dealing with fanboys.

I hope to hell you are not lumping me in with your childish reference to fanboys, just because I have dared to express a different view from yours.

I am a long term Nikon DSLR user, recently shifted to mainly Olympus and Sony mirrorless but still using both Nikon and Canon DSLRs. Which company does that make me a fanboy of?

New Day Rising wrote:

T O Shooter wrote:

New Day Rising wrote:

These cameras do not meet your needs as a professional photographer because they are not marketed to you as a professional photographer.

He was only looking for the second card slot, something that was on my D7000 53 years ago. Hardly a professional stretch.

53 years???

Well 52 1/2. Splitting hairs??

It may not be a professional stretch, but obviously if he needs two slots, which is a reasonable need, these are not the cameras for him.

I think everyone has figured that out by now. But it is the camera, but for a dumbazz decision by Nikon

I dare say Nikon has a good understanding of what professional photographers need - they have been successfully selling cameras to professionals for decades.

Don't let that fool you. They're as close to idiots as they are to geniuses.

That's your judgement.

And an accurate one.

They didn't ask you what you needed in these cameras because they were not expecting you to buy these cameras. If you do, it will be a bonus, but the tools they expect you to buy are still coming.

Ah come on. Two card slots are about as standard equipment as one can get.

On most high end cameras, sure.

The D7000 was high end? The D7100 was high end? ( another Nikon blunder ) The D600, D610, D750 are high end? Gimme a break.

Nikon have decided for whatever reason to remove it from their D7xxx series. I liked the dual slots in my D7200 and think it is the better approach, but am not emotionally invested in Nikon's business decisions.

Well good for you. I'd prefer for you not to be "emotionally invested"

You do exceptional high level work. You obviously have the cameras and lenses you need to do this work. That equipment worked perfectly well right up until the day of the announcement and will keep working perfectly well. There is absolutely no need for you to buy new equipment that doesn't meet your needs or to shift to another camera brand that obviously doesn't meet your needs either - if it did you would have shifted before now.

It's tough dealing with fanboys.

I hope to hell you are not lumping me in with your childish reference to fanboys, just because I have dared to express a different view from yours.

It's an accurate description, not a childish reference. You can smell one two miles away. And it's not a different view it's a condescending attitude. Such as "I dare say Nikon has a good understanding of what professional photographers need - they have been successfully selling cameras to professionals for decades."

If they did Benjamin and other pros would have what they needed as a start in Nikon ML. Nikon can go the way of Kodak ( who you say? ) pretty quick.

I am a long term Nikon DSLR user, recently shifted to mainly Olympus and Sony mirrorless but still using both Nikon and Canon DSLRs. Which company does that make me a fanboy of?

Read my paragraph above.