Remove "Banding" in Photos

Started Aug 19, 2018 | Discussions
LundisPhoto New Member • Posts: 10
Remove "Banding" in Photos
1

Hi DPreview!

Yesterday I got home from photographing a friends Wedding. Everything went well. However when importing the images all of the images from the indoor locations had major banding going through them.

I was shooting with the A7RIII IN Silent mode (big misstake I guess...) I wasn't checking the photos in playback, cos I was seeing what I was getting before I took the pics. However I never saw the Banding in the viewfinder or EVF while shooting. It was just there afterwards.

So I've read that this a common problem especially with LED lights.

I have found some other discussions were they say you can fix it in Photoshop, but I have not really found any instructions how to... or a Youtube video would be good. Or is there a plugin?

I am feeling absolutly heart crushed!

Don't want to let my friends down.

All the help is appreciated!

(unknown member) Senior Member • Posts: 2,516
Re: Remove "Banding" in Photos
1

LundisPhoto wrote:

Hi DPreview!

Yesterday I got home from photographing a friends Wedding. Everything went well. However when importing the images all of the images from the indoor locations had major banding going through them.

I was shooting with the A7RIII IN Silent mode (big misstake I guess...) I wasn't checking the photos in playback, cos I was seeing what I was getting before I took the pics. However I never saw the Banding in the viewfinder or EVF while shooting. It was just there afterwards.

So I've read that this a common problem especially with LED lights.

I have found some other discussions were they say you can fix it in Photoshop, but I have not really found any instructions how to... or a Youtube video would be good. Or is there a plugin?

I am feeling absolutly heart crushed!

Don't want to let my friends down.

All the help is appreciated!

Is that image supposed to be an example of the banding you speak of, because I see no banding.

Mike CH Veteran Member • Posts: 9,631
Look at the white wall...
4

PhilDunn wrote:

LundisPhoto wrote:

Hi DPreview!

Yesterday I got home from photographing a friends Wedding. Everything went well. However when importing the images all of the images from the indoor locations had major banding going through them.

I was shooting with the A7RIII IN Silent mode (big misstake I guess...) I wasn't checking the photos in playback, cos I was seeing what I was getting before I took the pics. However I never saw the Banding in the viewfinder or EVF while shooting. It was just there afterwards.

So I've read that this a common problem especially with LED lights.

I have found some other discussions were they say you can fix it in Photoshop, but I have not really found any instructions how to... or a Youtube video would be good. Or is there a plugin?

I am feeling absolutly heart crushed!

Don't want to let my friends down.

All the help is appreciated!

Is that image supposed to be an example of the banding you speak of, because I see no banding.

There are fat bluish/yellowish bands crossing the image horizontally, about a tenth as wide as the image is high. Look at the white wall at the rear of the church. At first glance it could just be a weird, natural shadow pattern - but I think it is more related to the lighting in the church, some kind of frequency interference from the light fixtures with the shutter time.

Regards, Mike

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Mike CH Veteran Member • Posts: 9,631
Not easy

I see what you mean. I don’t know of any tool that will fix that automatically; maybe somebody else does?

In principle you might be able to do something. First off, they are regular, and not all that intrusive. That might make it easier. On the other hand, there is a strong colour cast - yellow and blue - to the bands, and not just dark/light. That makes it more difficult.

You could try with a regular selection, feathered, in PS on each band. Brighten the dark bands a bit, and make them warmer to remove the blue cast, and darken the light bands a bit, and make them a bit cooler to remove the yellowish cast.

That is a manual process, unless - see above... - and will take quite some time, as you will have to do it about ten times per images. And I am not sure how good the result will be... 🙁

Maybe somebody else has a better idea?

Edit: Your shutter time is a bit high, this might make such interference more visible. Not that that helps you now, but for another time you might want to do a couple of test shots, and see if a lower shutter time has positive influence. If it is from the lighting - which I think it is - slower shutter times can potentially reduce the number of bands, if it doesn’t eliminate them completely.

Regards, Mike

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Wait and see...
I hardly ever speak for anybody but myself. In the cases where I do mean to speak generally the statements are likely to be marked as such.

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OP LundisPhoto New Member • Posts: 10
Re: Not easy

Thanks Mike for the advice. I will have a go in Photoshop.

I am sure it has something to do with the cameras Silent mode. That indoor LED lighting interferece with the sensor. But I wasn't aware of that issue until now.

Should I contact Sony? I mean, there "top of the line"  camera with Silent mode which should be used in a case like that (Wedding at a church) just ruined my photos.

But if anyone has a quicker solution, I am all ears. There are a few photos that this needs ajusting. So it will take a LONG time...

Thanks in advance!

Oskar

(unknown member) Senior Member • Posts: 2,516
Re: Look at the white wall...

Mike CH wrote:

PhilDunn wrote:

LundisPhoto wrote:

Hi DPreview!

Yesterday I got home from photographing a friends Wedding. Everything went well. However when importing the images all of the images from the indoor locations had major banding going through them.

I was shooting with the A7RIII IN Silent mode (big misstake I guess...) I wasn't checking the photos in playback, cos I was seeing what I was getting before I took the pics. However I never saw the Banding in the viewfinder or EVF while shooting. It was just there afterwards.

So I've read that this a common problem especially with LED lights.

I have found some other discussions were they say you can fix it in Photoshop, but I have not really found any instructions how to... or a Youtube video would be good. Or is there a plugin?

I am feeling absolutly heart crushed!

Don't want to let my friends down.

All the help is appreciated!

Is that image supposed to be an example of the banding you speak of, because I see no banding.

There are fat bluish/yellowish bands crossing the image horizontally, about a tenth as wide as the image is high. Look at the white wall at the rear of the church. At first glance it could just be a weird, natural shadow pattern - but I think it is more related to the lighting in the church, some kind of frequency interference from the light fixtures with the shutter time.

Regards, Mike

Interesting; I've never seen anything like it. Once I read your post I also thought it could be some natural shadow pattern. In any case, that's a very challenging edit. I could do it through brush work but boy that would be a long and tedious task just for one image, never mind the entire event. Maybe someone with expert selection and masking know how knows a much quicker and more effective way to address the the different banding patterns in each image.

If it is due to LED lighting it would be interesting to know exactly what is going on and how that kind of pattern appears. I know some LEDs work through pulses while others are constant. I think the latter constant type are the ones that allow for dimmable bulbs. I have some pulsating types that I tried using a dimmer with anyway and they buzz like crazy when dimmed.

(unknown member) Forum Pro • Posts: 12,611
its due to frequency oscillation of the lighting
7

LundisPhoto wrote:

Thanks Mike for the advice. I will have a go in Photoshop.

I am sure it has something to do with the cameras Silent mode. That indoor LED lighting interferece with the sensor. But I wasn't aware of that issue until now.

Should I contact Sony? I mean, there "top of the line" camera with Silent mode which should be used in a case like that (Wedding at a church) just ruined my photos.

But if anyone has a quicker solution, I am all ears. There are a few photos that this needs ajusting. So it will take a LONG time...

Thanks in advance!

Oskar

this not an issue with just sony cameras but all cameras . Its your shutter speed choice .

Modern lighting flickers at a set frequency and you need to match your shutter speed so as not to have it show up in your images .

ie 50hz needs 1/50,1/100 etc , 60hz 1/60, 1/125 (nearest to 1/120 on most cameras) to reduce the effect

edit : forgot to say its made worse with silent shutter mode due to mech been left open and the speed in which the data is read across the sensor.

Mike CH Veteran Member • Posts: 9,631
Re: Not easy

LundisPhoto wrote:

Thanks Mike for the advice. I will have a go in Photoshop.

I am sure it has something to do with the cameras Silent mode. That indoor LED lighting interferece with the sensor. But I wasn't aware of that issue until now.

I think it’s a good guess that it has something to do with that.

Should I contact Sony? I mean, there "top of the line" camera with Silent mode which should be used in a case like that (Wedding at a church) just ruined my photos.

I doubt that you would have much luck, there. Apart from a politely formulated response saying, in essence, “dont’ do that”. If it is the interference then it’s something that happens due to something outside of Sony’s control. And all modes have their usage areas...

But if anyone has a quicker solution, I am all ears. There are a few photos that this needs ajusting. So it will take a LONG time...

That would be my fear. But somebody might come up with a better idea - the left-pondian fraction is only getting out of bed by now...

Regards, Mike

-- hide signature --

Wait and see...
I hardly ever speak for anybody but myself. In the cases where I do mean to speak generally the statements are likely to be marked as such.

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Rick Knepper
Rick Knepper Forum Pro • Posts: 17,870
Re: Remove "Banding" in Photos

In this particular case, you can crop both sides out. Probably have to lose the chandeliers.

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Once you've done fifty, anything less is iffy.

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(unknown member) Senior Member • Posts: 2,516
Re: Not easy

LundisPhoto wrote:

Thanks Mike for the advice. I will have a go in Photoshop.

I am sure it has something to do with the cameras Silent mode. That indoor LED lighting interferece with the sensor. But I wasn't aware of that issue until now.

Should I contact Sony? I mean, there "top of the line" camera with Silent mode which should be used in a case like that (Wedding at a church) just ruined my photos.

But if anyone has a quicker solution, I am all ears. There are a few photos that this needs ajusting. So it will take a LONG time...

Thanks in advance!

Oskar

What do you think a silent mode would have to do with causing that?

If it's just a few then that's a good thing. As I told Mike I could correct the banding through brushing alone but it would  be a long and tedious process, but it could be done. So take solace in the fact the images can be saved. I'm also confident that someone with expert selection and masking skills can do it much faster.

richiebee
richiebee Veteran Member • Posts: 4,462
Re: Not easy

PhilDunn wrote:

LundisPhoto wrote:

Thanks Mike for the advice. I will have a go in Photoshop.

I am sure it has something to do with the cameras Silent mode. That indoor LED lighting interferece with the sensor. But I wasn't aware of that issue until now.

Should I contact Sony? I mean, there "top of the line" camera with Silent mode which should be used in a case like that (Wedding at a church) just ruined my photos.

But if anyone has a quicker solution, I am all ears. There are a few photos that this needs ajusting. So it will take a LONG time...

Thanks in advance!

Oskar

What do you think a silent mode would have to do with causing that?

I assumed it was an electronic shutter artifact - I’ve seen it from my D850 in silent mode. Related to the lighting, yes. Related to shutter speed, yes.  But also definitely related to using silent shutter.

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(unknown member) Senior Member • Posts: 2,516
Re: Not easy

richiebee wrote:

PhilDunn wrote:

LundisPhoto wrote:

Thanks Mike for the advice. I will have a go in Photoshop.

I am sure it has something to do with the cameras Silent mode. That indoor LED lighting interferece with the sensor. But I wasn't aware of that issue until now.

Should I contact Sony? I mean, there "top of the line" camera with Silent mode which should be used in a case like that (Wedding at a church) just ruined my photos.

But if anyone has a quicker solution, I am all ears. There are a few photos that this needs ajusting. So it will take a LONG time...

Thanks in advance!

Oskar

What do you think a silent mode would have to do with causing that?

I assumed it was an electronic shutter artifact - I’ve seen it from my D850 in silent mode. Related to the lighting, yes. Related to shutter speed, yes. But also definitely related to using silent shutter.

Hmm, I will look into that. I've been using my RX100V lately set to the electronic shutter. I also found this interesting article that may interest you.

https://www.archlighting.com/technology/leds-fighting-flicker_o

(unknown member) Forum Pro • Posts: 12,611
Re: Not easy
4

richiebee wrote:

PhilDunn wrote:

LundisPhoto wrote:

Thanks Mike for the advice. I will have a go in Photoshop.

I am sure it has something to do with the cameras Silent mode. That indoor LED lighting interferece with the sensor. But I wasn't aware of that issue until now.

Should I contact Sony? I mean, there "top of the line" camera with Silent mode which should be used in a case like that (Wedding at a church) just ruined my photos.

But if anyone has a quicker solution, I am all ears. There are a few photos that this needs ajusting. So it will take a LONG time...

Thanks in advance!

Oskar

What do you think a silent mode would have to do with causing that?

I assumed it was an electronic shutter artifact - I’ve seen it from my D850 in silent mode. Related to the lighting, yes. Related to shutter speed, yes. But also definitely related to using silent shutter.

Yes its linked to readout speed across the sensor with the added issue of selected shutter speed.

TheClueless
TheClueless Senior Member • Posts: 2,140
Re: Not easy
1

LundisPhoto wrote:

Thanks Mike for the advice. I will have a go in Photoshop.

I am sure it has something to do with the cameras Silent mode. That indoor LED lighting interferece with the sensor. But I wasn't aware of that issue until now.

Should I contact Sony? I mean, there "top of the line" camera with Silent mode which should be used in a case like that (Wedding at a church) just ruined my photos.

This would be basically saying to Sony "hey, I'm an idiot with no idea what I'm doing but I'm going to blame you anyway because ego".

But if anyone has a quicker solution, I am all ears. There are a few photos that this needs ajusting. So it will take a LONG time...

Try Nik DFine 2, if no-one else has mentioned it already - it may be slightly less tedious than other options.

Thanks in advance!

Oskar

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(unknown member) Forum Pro • Posts: 12,611
sony even warns about banding in images...
3

in the manual if you select silent shooting under certain lighting conditions.

OP LundisPhoto New Member • Posts: 10
Re: Not easy

TheClueless wrote:

Should I contact Sony? I mean, there "top of the line" camera with Silent mode which should be used in a case like that (Wedding at a church) just ruined my photos.

This would be basically saying "hey, I'm an idiot with no idea what I'm doing but I'm going to blame you anyway because ego"

haha. Thats funny. I did actually turn the silent mode off cos friends said it was creepy when they didnt know when I took a picture. And after that (which was anyway way too late) the issue disappered. Same camera settings.

OP LundisPhoto New Member • Posts: 10
Re: sony even warns about banding in images...

Labe wrote:

in the manual if you select silent shooting under certain lighting conditions.

Thanks for that No need writing to Sony then

D Cox Forum Pro • Posts: 31,531
Re: Remove "Banding" in Photos
4

You should make a second layer in Photoshop and draw straight lines across it with a big soft brush in alternate blue and yellow. Then try various blending modes.

The idea is to match up your bands with opposite bands. You might also need to apply some Gaussian blur to your new layer to match up the stripes with the original.

If you get one to work, save that upper layer as a separate image, as you may be able to use it again on the other banded images. Especially if the shutter speed is the same.

It will take some work.

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Mark S Abeln
Mark S Abeln Forum Pro • Posts: 18,976
Maybe fixable
3

Sony already knows about this problem and has already solved it.

This camera, like many others, has an anti flicker mode specifically for shooting under fluorescent lamps to avoid this problem. However, this doesn’t help you now!

It may be possible to remove this banding via an advanced (but well-established) technique known as the Fourier transform.

Ask your question over at the Photographic Science and Technology forum:

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/1061

or maybe the Retouching forum:

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/1006

There might be folks who know about some free tools that can do this sort of thing relatively simply.

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OP LundisPhoto New Member • Posts: 10
Re: Remove "Banding" in Photos

I tried it in Lightroom with the brush tool. Going over the blue darker strips with +29 Yellow and +0,76 exposure. Then after I boosted the full image with some more exposure. Looks a lot better. Still visiable. But will get away with it? Took me about 5-8 min to do it. Some images are too strong. Those will go in the bin...

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