Questionable, but good on Sony A7R III

[Egor Padalka]

Very specific lens. Controversial.
Below is my thoughts related to architectural applications, shift function only. I don't use tilt too much, but it does the job if you master how to properly focus.

Good:
1) I can see final frame composition, resulting better framing. Really, this is the only feature I can't archive with other wide angle lens for this price.
2) Field of view. It is wide! I even done the comparison to a regular lens with this one shifted, I compared with 12-24 Sigma and found Canon FOV somewhere between 10mm and 11mm. Here is the Canon TS-E FOV comparison with images

Bad:
1) Sun flares, and interior spotlight flares. Sun can be shaded with hand if not in frame, but interior spotlight flares are really annoying!
2) Sharpness. To be honest, I expected more for the money. Shift lens intended to be used shifted, so I expected perfect sharpness when shifted. It is good at f11 and f16, but not as good as Sony lenses. That's why I think using this lens is questionable.

Actually without #1 in "good" list, I'd better buy Sony 12-24 and did keystone correction in post. I think Sony lens is sharper, has AF + zoom, and resolution loss when keystone correction applied would be about the same as edge softness I have with Canon TS-E 17mm.
But, ability to see final photo composition in viewfinder worth it for me!

 

[PWPhotography]

I use EF 17L TS-E lots on Sony bodies. Your review is accurate. Despite the shortage I still need this lens and carry in the trips despite its weight (even slightly heavier than 24-70L/2.8 II). I hate converging vertical in city/architecture photos. Sure you can fix in software but not only lose resolution but will lose a large section of edge area. 12mm after vertical perspective fix, it likely also becomes 17mm.

It's funny that Canon TS-E lenses actually are much easier to use on E-mount than Canon own EF-mount due to EVF (so much easier and more accurate in MF), focus peaking (that Tilt function is so much easier to use), very accurate exposure in full-time LV, and then becomes an 'IS' lens on Sony's IBIS bodies. I shoot most photos from this lens actually hand-held.

inside the Venetian Casino, Las Vegas

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https://www.flickr.com/photos/55485085@N04/albums

 

[J A C S]

2) Sharpness. To be honest, I expected more for the money. Shift lens intended to be used shifted, so I expected perfect sharpness when shifted. It is good at f11 and f16, but not as good as Sony lenses.

Sony makes TSE lenses?

 

[Egor Padalka]

Sure you can fix in software but not only lose resolution but will lose a large section of edge area. 12mm after vertical perspective fix, it likely also becomes 17mm.

I agree. We loose edge area. According to my comparison resulting FOV is wider than 17mm, probably ~15mm




Canon 17mm TS-E FOV compared to 12mm

 

[Egor Padalka]

Sony makes TSE lenses?

As far as I know - No.

I meant Sony's sharpness standard I used to. (from the same price range)

 

[J A C S]

Sony makes TSE lenses?

As far as I know - No.

I meant Sony's sharpness standard I used to. (from the same price range)

It makes no senses to compare a TSE lens, probably tilted or shifted too much to an ordinary lens. You said you expected perfect sharpness when shifted - cannot happen.

 

[PWPhotography]

Sony makes TSE lenses?

As far as I know - No.

I meant Sony's sharpness standard I used to. (from the same price range)

It makes no senses to compare a TSE lens, probably tilted or shifted too much to an ordinary lens. You said you expected perfect sharpness when shifted - cannot happen.

He meant to compare to regular UWA lenses. Since he owns Sony FE 12-24 not Canon 11-24L so he referred to Sony. Since Canon has excellent TS-E lens line personally I don't think Sony ever needs to develop its TS-E lens, only maybe smaller/lighter as they are MF anyway.

But take not just my words but all TS-E owners used on Sony E-mount, indeed EVF and focus peaking and full-time LV make using TS-E so much easier, and Canon owners would agree once Canon released its FF mirrorless.

 

[PWPhotography]

Sure you can fix in software but not only lose resolution but will lose a large section of edge area. 12mm after vertical perspective fix, it likely also becomes 17mm.

I agree. We loose edge area. According to my comparison resulting FOV is wider than 17mm, probably ~15mm

So I have this mind boggling - should I buy FE 12-24 to replace 17L TS-E? I already owned FE 16-35 GM. If it's an effective substitute I don't want to lug a bulky manual-focus lens, although MF is very easy via EVF. What's your opinion? The member 'Joger' used to passionate on 17L TS-E now advocate FE 12-24G all the time Both FE 12-24 G and FE 16-35 GM are great lenses, I picked up later on my priority - f2.8, slight sharper and dislike severe stretching from 12mm. It's impossible or very hard to level the camera in most scenes.

Oh, I can see they have different perspective. A big advantage of TS-E lens is that you can stand in front of crowds when shifted.

Canon 17mm TS-E FOV compared to 12mm

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https://www.flickr.com/photos/55485085@N04/albums

 

[Egor Padalka]

So I have this mind boggling - should I buy FE 12-24 to replace 17L TS-E? I already owned FE 16-35 GM. If it's an effective substitute I don't want to lug a bulky manual-focus lens, although MF is very easy via EVF. What's your opinion? The member 'Joger' used to passionate on 17L TS-E now advocate FE 12-24G all the time Both FE 12-24 G and FE 16-35 GM are great lenses, I picked up later on my priority - f2.8, slight sharper and dislike severe stretching from 12mm. It's impossible or very hard to level the camera in most scenes.

I have Sigma 12-24 which is nothing to compare to Sony 12-24G in therms of sharpness. I wish I had this new Sony 12-24G for side-by-side comparison with Canon 17TS-E. For example with shifted Canon 17TS-E I'm stuck with f11-f16 all the time, I guess with Sony lens f4, f5.6 apertures are quite usable.

In my opinion any regular UWA lens can't substitute a Shift lens just because it doesn't allow us to see final photo composition - after post-perspective correction we will loose some edge area, which may likely ruin the original photo.

//Idea
In this terms, I wish Sony (or all the brands) implement on-the-fly perspective correction based on built in spirit level. Just like Sony has PictureStyles to display in BW on-the-fly, do the same for geometry correction. With such functionality I could shoot architecture with ANY lens, making sure the final (perspective-corrected) composition is what I have pictured.
//Idea

As for the ease of MF with Sony EVF. Absolutely agree, I couldn't imagine focusing with regular optical viewfinder (I have my old Canon 5D). Focusing with Sony's hi-res, zoom-able EVF is pleasure.
BUT
Auto focusing with Sony 12-24G is even easier

 

[PWPhotography]

So I have this mind boggling - should I buy FE 12-24 to replace 17L TS-E? I already owned FE 16-35 GM. If it's an effective substitute I don't want to lug a bulky manual-focus lens, although MF is very easy via EVF. What's your opinion? The member 'Joger' used to passionate on 17L TS-E now advocate FE 12-24G all the time Both FE 12-24 G and FE 16-35 GM are great lenses, I picked up later on my priority - f2.8, slight sharper and dislike severe stretching from 12mm. It's impossible or very hard to level the camera in most scenes.

I have Sigma 12-24 which is nothing to compare to Sony 12-24G in therms of sharpness. I wish I had this new Sony 12-24G for side-by-side comparison with Canon 17TS-E. For example with shifted Canon 17TS-E I'm stuck with f11-f16 all the time, I guess with Sony lens f4, f5.6 apertures are quite usable.

Oh, realized you have Sigma version. Agreed FE 12-24G is fanatic that is well reviewed by all and it's compact and light. Also I don't know why you must stop that much? I personally don't care a little soft at far edges after full shifted that usually only happen in very close subject that shown up in far corner after shifted up. After full shift the focus axis has been dramatically moved so this is expected.

In my opinion any regular UWA lens can't substitute a Shift lens just because it doesn't allow us to see final photo composition - after post-perspective correction we will loose some edge area, which may likely ruin the original photo.

That actually is not my top concern but fully agreed. From you samples, the perspective between UWA vertical fixed vs 17L TS-E shifted-up are different that latter seems amplified and subject looks closer and bigger. Guess on individual taste.

//Idea
In this terms, I wish Sony (or all the brands) implement on-the-fly perspective correction based on built in spirit level. Just like Sony has PictureStyles to display in BW on-the-fly, do the same for geometry correction. With such functionality I could shoot architecture with ANY lens, making sure the final (perspective-corrected) composition is what I have pictured.
//Idea

Great ideal that can be done actually, in-camera correction as Sony at least did anyway on its UWA lenses such as FE 12-24.

As for the ease of MF with Sony EVF. Absolutely agree, I couldn't imagine focusing with regular optical viewfinder (I have my old Canon 5D). Focusing with Sony's hi-res, zoom-able EVF is pleasure.

Once I (and many others) used to EVF cannot go back to small, dim and lack of info OVF. Today's EVF is a complete different story than a few years ago - big, bright (that can be adjusted), no flicking, virtually no lagging (especially A9's), full of info and tools (zebra and peaking) and AF/AE are very accurate in LV.

BUT
Auto focusing with Sony 12-24G is even easier

of course.

BTW, this new zoom lens seems even wider MF however which is not a big in such wide lens. Sunstars seems beautiful that in general a weakness (and strength in Canon) in Sony lenses. If it's sharp enough I might buy this one instead of FE 12-24 that will have many fun photos from it, I guess.

https://www.sonyalpharumors.com/new...the-upcoming-laowa-10-18mm-f-4-5-5-6-fe-lens/

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https://www.flickr.com/photos/55485085@N04/albums