rx100m6 lens sharpness test shots

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elliottnewcomb Forum Pro • Posts: 16,641
rx100m6 lens sharpness test shots
1

let me know if you think this camera's lens is good, bad, or ugly please

I downloaded a test chart

I cropped the test chart

I printed cropped test chart on photo matte paper, best quality, from decent ink jet, the print in nice white, sharp, but an inkjet. taped it on a white painted interior door

I shot RX1r, amazing all apertures, all corners, OMG, incredible lens

my rx100m6 (color varies, some incand + daylight, some incand only at night)

starts soft in all corners at f2.8, and progressively sharpens as aperture narrows, each one sharper than the next, f4.5 sharp at any focal length, even though ISO is higher

24mm f2.8, 125, 4 soft corners

34mm f3.5 250

42mm f4.0 400

100mm f4.0 800

70mm f4.5 1000

135mm 4.5 2000

200mm 4.5 3200

.................................................

24mm f2.8 compared to 24mm f4.5

24mm f4.5 400, much better corners than the next shot (1st one repeated)

1st shot repeated, 24mm f2.8 125, 4 soft corners

let me know if you think this camera's lens is good, bad, or ugly please

thanks,

Elliott

 elliottnewcomb's gear list:elliottnewcomb's gear list
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Clix Pix
Clix Pix Regular Member • Posts: 365
Re: rx100m6 lens sharpness test shots
5

I am not a pixel-peeper nor am I interested in analyzing each and every little thing about any new camera or lens that I purchase. I use the camera (and the lens, if it's separate and not fixed to the camera) and base my decisions about whether or not I am pleased with the results on what I see after my own shooting and my own post-processing. If I like what I see, the camera (and/or the lens) is a keeper; if not, I check my own technique and shooting approach to be sure that it's not something I'm doing which is resulting in unsatisfactory (to me) results. After that, once I've decided that the camera is fine, the lens is fine, I don't worry about that kind of thing any more at all and just get out there and enjoy making images which are pleasing to me and I hope to others as well......

I am more than happy with my RX100 M6;  her lens is plenty sharp enough for me and she has been performing in a way which more than exceeds my expectations.  She's a keeper for me......

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Tim G
Tim G Regular Member • Posts: 462
Re: rx100m6 lens sharpness test shots

Clix Pix wrote:

I am not a pixel-peeper nor am I interested in analyzing each and every little thing about any new camera or lens that I purchase. I use the camera (and the lens, if it's separate and not fixed to the camera) and base my decisions about whether or not I am pleased with the results on what I see after my own shooting and my own post-processing. If I like what I see, the camera (and/or the lens) is a keeper; if not, I check my own technique and shooting approach to be sure that it's not something I'm doing which is resulting in unsatisfactory (to me) results. After that, once I've decided that the camera is fine, the lens is fine, I don't worry about that kind of thing any more at all and just get out there and enjoy making images which are pleasing to me and I hope to others as well......

I am more than happy with my RX100 M6; her lens is plenty sharp enough for me and she has been performing in a way which more than exceeds my expectations. She's a keeper for me......

Agree. That's my litmus test - if I'm happy with the results I'm getting and the usability I'm happy with the camera. In my case it's the muppet behind the viewfinder that's the limiting factor - especially with the quality this wee pocket rocket is capable of producing. My cameras far exceed my ability but it's always fun learning

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Zbyszek_Z Regular Member • Posts: 183
Re: rx100m6 lens sharpness test shots

I have found the RX100M6's image quality as a very good. I am pleased with the results of its sensor-lens set-up. There is an annoying drawback of this lens, however. When you increase the FL length (zooming in) the minimal distance of sharpness quickly increases. I have found this "feature" as a limiting one in my style of shooting.

But taking into account the size & weight of this little gem I conclude that it is an impressive compact camera - the best in the market A.D. 2018.

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Zbyszek

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J_dpr Contributing Member • Posts: 974
Re: rx100m6 lens sharpness test shots

elliottnewcomb wrote:

let me know if you think this camera's lens is good, bad, or ugly please

I downloaded a test chart

I cropped the test chart

I printed cropped test chart on photo matte paper, best quality, from decent ink jet, the print in nice white, sharp, but an inkjet. taped it on a white painted interior door

I shot RX1r, amazing all apertures, all corners, OMG, incredible lens

my rx100m6 (color varies, some incand + daylight, some incand only at night)

starts soft in all corners at f2.8, and progressively sharpens as aperture narrows, each one sharper than the next, f4.5 sharp at any focal length, even though ISO is higher

24mm f2.8, 125, 4 soft corners

34mm f3.5 250

42mm f4.0 400

100mm f4.0 800

70mm f4.5 1000

135mm 4.5 2000

200mm 4.5 3200

.................................................

24mm f2.8 compared to 24mm f4.5

24mm f4.5 400, much better corners than the next shot (1st one repeated)

1st shot repeated, 24mm f2.8 125, 4 soft corners

let me know if you think this camera's lens is good, bad, or ugly please

thanks,

Elliott

Ellliot, I think there is an inherent danger in doing sharpness tests at this short distance because field curvature (I think it’s called) could be in play. That is the distance to the corners are greater than the distance to the center and thus maybe be out of focus at lower F numbers while being within focus at higher F numbers. Someone smarter than me could probably calculate if this is the case but I find it better to shoot a brick wall at a greater distance to (more or less) rule it out.

OP elliottnewcomb Forum Pro • Posts: 16,641
Re: rx100m6 lens sharpness test shots

I know soft corners will not effect the bulk of my photos, but

I am looking for input from people who know about lens sharpness tests, to say, this is normal for this kind of range lens, or, it could be better, or, this site posted the same info, or this site posted much better corners at f2.8

I'm no pixel peeper, but, this is a NEW lens/sensor unit. there have been models where people have ordered 1,2,returned them, finally the 3rd one was good, that indicated design/production/assembly variations.

The NEW popup Diopter Lever is moving by itself, that is just plain wrong.

I remember that after 2 years, Canon finally had a 1" sensor model, it was thoroughly discussed how it's lens was 'soft' in the corners, not as good as Sony's sharper lens.

This test, this distance, RX1r is sharp corner to corner at every aperture, and the m6 sharpens progressively until things are sharp corner to corner, so if some further distance to the corners is involved, it is overcome by aperture, so I ask again, is this normal, or perhaps try another unit, see if it does better? Not something I want to rush into,

so, someone quite knowledgeable about lenses please give some guidance.

thanks,

-- hide signature --

Elliott

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tbcass
tbcass Forum Pro • Posts: 41,737
Re: rx100m6 lens sharpness test shots

Zbyszek_Z wrote:There is an annoying drawback of this lens, however. When you increase the FL length (zooming in) the minimal distance of sharpness quickly increases.

I believe this is true of every zoom lens ever made, that minimum focus distance increases with focal length.

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Tom
Look at the picture, not the pixels

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tbcass
tbcass Forum Pro • Posts: 41,737
Re: rx100m6 lens sharpness test shots

There's a flaw in that test chart. The downloaded image is only 7mp. Then you take a photo of it with the 20mp RX100vi you are exceeding the limits of the chart so any viewing at 100% will give a degraded image. Your cropped version is only 2mp which makes the problem even worse.  All in all the overall IQ of the chart is much worse than what it should be.

That said the lack of corner sharpness is pretty obvious, worse than my RX100m1.

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Tom
Look at the picture, not the pixels

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Steve Bingham
Steve Bingham Forum Pro • Posts: 26,183
Re: rx100m6 lens sharpness test shots
1

elliottnewcomb wrote:

I know soft corners will not effect the bulk of my photos, but

I am looking for input from people who know about lens sharpness tests, to say, this is normal for this kind of range lens, or, it could be better, or, this site posted the same info, or this site posted much better corners at f2.8

I'm no pixel peeper, but, this is a NEW lens/sensor unit. there have been models where people have ordered 1,2,returned them, finally the 3rd one was good, that indicated design/production/assembly variations.

The NEW popup Diopter Lever is moving by itself, that is just plain wrong.

Elliott, mine does too. Every time it pops up it moves slightly to the left! By the 4th pop up it is way out of alignment. A work-around is simply to hold your finger lightly on the mechanism (as it comes up) to prevent it from jarring itself. Of course You could always glue it, or jam it, in place! This keeps it from popping up and jerking the diopter to the left. A design flaw by Sony! Why not a simple device to slow down the jerkiness of the pop-up?

I see no corner softness on mine to date and Imaging Resources shows excellent sharpness at a Focal Length of 25.9 mm (x 2.77 is 72mm). I can zoom mine out to full tele and take some shots of my huge ISO 12233 charts, This could then be compared to my other lens tests. I am sure there will be SOME corner softness at 200mm.

Looking carefully at your test shots, something is terribly wrong. The RX1r simply has a much more expensive lens that is much sharper - and it should be. As a fixed focal length and at a horrific price, it is simply sharper! However, there is something about your test shots that is wrong. Here is a photo from Imaging Resources. Keep in mind this is a full frame camera with a single focal length. It should be sharper - a LOT sharper. The RX-100 VI has a mag factor of 2.77 over the RX1rII. That spells big trouble at higher ISOs and wide open f stops!

You want convenience - get the RX-100. You want sharpness - get the RX-1. Pretty simple, no?

I remember that after 2 years, Canon finally had a 1" sensor model, it was thoroughly discussed how it's lens was 'soft' in the corners, not as good as Sony's sharper lens.

This test, this distance, RX1r is sharp corner to corner at every aperture, and the m6 sharpens progressively until things are sharp corner to corner, so if some further distance to the corners is involved, it is overcome by aperture, so I ask again, is this normal, or perhaps try another unit, see if it does better? Not something I want to rush into,

so, someone quite knowledgeable about lenses please give some guidance.

thanks,

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Elliott

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Ken Ross Contributing Member • Posts: 957
Re: rx100m6 lens sharpness test shots

Clix Pix wrote:

I am not a pixel-peeper nor am I interested in analyzing each and every little thing about any new camera or lens that I purchase. I use the camera (and the lens, if it's separate and not fixed to the camera) and base my decisions about whether or not I am pleased with the results on what I see after my own shooting and my own post-processing. If I like what I see, the camera (and/or the lens) is a keeper; if not, I check my own technique and shooting approach to be sure that it's not something I'm doing which is resulting in unsatisfactory (to me) results. After that, once I've decided that the camera is fine, the lens is fine, I don't worry about that kind of thing any more at all and just get out there and enjoy making images which are pleasing to me and I hope to others as well......

I am more than happy with my RX100 M6; her lens is plenty sharp enough for me and she has been performing in a way which more than exceeds my expectations. She's a keeper for me......

I think Elliot has doubts about his camera and its shown up in other threads.

My prediction, based on years of reading equipment forums where an owner raised repeated doubts about a recent purchase: Elliot will return his camera.

Just calling it as I see it, Elliot.

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OP elliottnewcomb Forum Pro • Posts: 16,641
Re: rx100m6 lens sharpness test shots

found this, trusted reviews

https://www.trustedreviews.com/reviews/sony-rx100-vi

The RX100 VI’s lens is an excellent performer considering its relatively long range. Like most extended-range zooms it’s very sharp in the centre wide open, but less good in the corners, and you’ll want to stop it down to f4 or f/5.6 when shooting scenes such as landscapes where there’s detail right across the scene.

In the middle of the zoom range the lens is simply stunning, giving excellent sharpness from corner to corner. Likewise at the telephoto end, the centre is still very sharp, although the corners are a touch soft at maximum aperture.

In my side-by-side comparisons, the RX100 VI’s lens is so much sharper at 200mm and f/4.5 than the TZ200’s at 360mm and f/6.3 that in good light, you can get almost the same level of detail from both cameras when shooting distant subjects. One word of warning though; I’d avoid the minimum aperture of f/11, as it gives very soft images due to diffraction.

...................................................

found this, here

Key takeaways

  • Image quality in both JPEG and Raw is very good
  • The lens looks impressively sharp and consistent across its range
  • The slower maximum aperture limits image quality in low light

We've compared the RX100 VI against the Panasonic ZS100, since it has the most similar zoom range. As you can see, the Sony is noticeably better at all focal lengths (a difference made more apparent when shooting in JPEG, since Sony's sharpening is good at enhancing detail).

As always, we expect there to some sample-to-sample variation, given the challenges of consistently building such a mechanically and optically complex lens design (and then examining it using a relatively demanding sensor). Given we only have one example of the Sony, we can't know whether they'll all be this good but this sample, at least, is both very impressive and remarkably consistent throughout its zoom range.

.............................................................

It's the sample to sample variation that has me wondering if I should switch it for another unit or not. Both the diopter lever movement and the lens may be subject to slight variations. I had trouble again today with that damn diopter changing.

There are very few f2.8 samples out there, to compare my corners with .......

Elliott

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Horacecoker Senior Member • Posts: 2,422
Re: rx100m6 lens sharpness test shots

There are very few f2.8 samples out there, to compare my corners with .......

Elliott

You keep mentioning corners Elliott but to be honest at 9mm (24mm equivalent) at F2.8 it's not just the corners that are poor is it? The test chart doesn't actually extend anywhere near the corners in the 24mm shot, it's just wallpaper. So in actual fact it's only acceptably sharp bang in the centre at F2.8, everywhere else is very soft not just the corners. You are already losing 1.33 stops at F2.8 to the RX100 M3 M4 & M5 so if you have to stop down to F4 to get an half decent image at wide angle you can add another stop to that.

Whether your final decision is to own a RX100M6 or not, if it were me I'd send the one you have now packing while there's still time - it's a bad un!

David

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OP elliottnewcomb Forum Pro • Posts: 16,641
Re: rx100m6 lens sharpness test shots
1

thanks David, I was hoping to hear from you on this.

everywhere I jumped on the web, only a few sample photos were taken at f2.8, and none had decent corners. IF the image would want sharp corners (most do not matter), you are stuck needing to go to 3.5 or narrower.

My shots are on a low rez crop, inkjet print of a crop, so what the heck do I know? I know, shooting the same test sheet, my m3 is better, and the RX1r is terrific, so ignoring all else, this lens has soft corners when wide. will they all? Likely I suspect. Normal for a 24-200mm lens?

I woke up this am deciding, I want an rx100m6, but this one is going back. I am more than a little disappointed.

I am meeting Mina at B&H today, I will take mine, my memory card, and take a few shots in the store with their counter demo. Also, I will pop their EVF up and down, see if it moves like mine does.

I might have to wait until they solve the EVF diopter slippage, then get one, If anyone has solved it, let me know asap please.

thanks to all for their thoughts on this

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Elliott

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OP elliottnewcomb Forum Pro • Posts: 16,641
Re: rx100m6 lens sharpness test shots

J_dpr wrote:

elliottnewcomb wrote:

let me know if you think this camera's lens is good, bad, or ugly please

I downloaded a test chart

I cropped the test chart

I printed cropped test chart on photo matte paper, best quality, from decent ink jet, the print in nice white, sharp, but an inkjet. taped it on a white painted interior door

I shot RX1r, amazing all apertures, all corners, OMG, incredible lens

my rx100m6 (color varies, some incand + daylight, some incand only at night)

starts soft in all corners at f2.8, and progressively sharpens as aperture narrows, each one sharper than the next, f4.5 sharp at any focal length, even though ISO is higher

24mm f2.8, 125, 4 soft corners

34mm f3.5 250

42mm f4.0 400

100mm f4.0 800

70mm f4.5 1000

135mm 4.5 2000

200mm 4.5 3200

.................................................

24mm f2.8 compared to 24mm f4.5

24mm f4.5 400, much better corners than the next shot (1st one repeated)

1st shot repeated, 24mm f2.8 125, 4 soft corners

let me know if you think this camera's lens is good, bad, or ugly please

thanks,

Elliott

Ellliot, I think there is an inherent danger in doing sharpness tests at this short distance because field curvature (I think it’s called) could be in play. That is the distance to the corners are greater than the distance to the center and thus maybe be out of focus at lower F numbers while being within focus at higher F numbers. Someone smarter than me could probably calculate if this is the case but I find it better to shoot a brick wall at a greater distance to (more or less) rule it out.

that m6 lens was defective.

my Oly Stylus 1, constant f2.8, 28-300mm, 1/1.7" sensor, Jacket Pocket Size Zoom.

noise yes, but sharp corner to corner, f2.8 a bit softer than 3.2, 3.5, 4.0 but only by small degrees

200mm f2.8

200 f3.2

200 f3.5

200 f4.0

I shot Macro, 42, 112, 200, 300, each series is the same as this.

Here's hoping the replacement m6 that arrives tomorrow, is far better than the one I returned.

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Elliott

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OP elliottnewcomb Forum Pro • Posts: 16,641
Re: rx100m6 lens sharpness test shots

Ken Ross wrote:

My prediction, based on years of reading equipment forums where an owner raised repeated doubts about a recent purchase: Elliot will return his camera.

Just calling it as I see it, Elliot.

You were right, and I will keep or return the replacement until I get a diopter lever that stays where I set it! Hopefully the lens of the replacement will also be better.

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Elliott

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d3xmeister Veteran Member • Posts: 3,380
Re: rx100m6 lens sharpness test shots

elliottnewcomb wrote:

Ken Ross wrote:

My prediction, based on years of reading equipment forums where an owner raised repeated doubts about a recent purchase: Elliot will return his camera.

Just calling it as I see it, Elliot.

You were right, and I will keep or return the replacement until I get a diopter lever that stays where I set it! Hopefully the lens of the replacement will also be better.

Let us know how it will work out. I'm especially interested if another copy of the lens can perform better at the wideangle

OP elliottnewcomb Forum Pro • Posts: 16,641
Re: rx100m6 lens sharpness test shots

I just tested the open box/returned camera I bought from BB yesterday.

Just enlarged/viewed the test shots. It is definitely better than the one I tested and returned.

close, 24mm, f2.8 there is a little corner softness, much less than the before.

it is already better at f3.2,

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Elliott

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