Aperture/ISO shootout: rx100 m3; rx100 m6; RX1r; Oly Stylus 1

Started 11 months ago | Discussions
elliottnewcomb Forum Pro • Posts: 16,641
Aperture/ISO shootout: rx100 m3; rx100 m6; RX1r; Oly Stylus 1
2

It was asked in another thread for comparisons between m5 at f1.8 and m6 at f2.8.

best I can do, handheld, Jpeg, AF-S, OOC, no PP, (focus and metering areas not matched)

same amount of light for all photos, AWB seeing fluorescent shop light

Aperture/ISO shootout: rx100 m3; rx100 m6; RX1r; Oly Stylus 1

m3 24mm f1.8 i250

m3 70mm f2.8 i1000

m6 24mm f2.8 i500

m6 70mm f4.0 i2500

m6 200mm f4.5 i6400

RX!r Full Frame 35mm fixed lens

RX1r 35mm f2.0 i400

RX1r 35mm f2.8 i1000

RX1r 35mm f4.0 i1600

RX1r 35mm f4.5 i2000

RX1r 35mm f5.6 i3200

RX1r 35mm f8.0 i6400

Olympus Stylus 1, Constant f2.8 1/1.7" sensor

28mm f2.8 i800

70mm f2.8 i800

200mm f2.8 i1250

300mm f2.8 i1600

-- hide signature --

Elliott

 elliottnewcomb's gear list:elliottnewcomb's gear list
Sony RX1R Olympus Stylus 1 Sony RX100 III Olympus Stylus 1s Sony RX100 VI +1 more
Canon EOS M3 Canon EOS M6 Sony RX100 Sony RX100 III Sony RX1R
If you believe there are incorrect tags, please send us this post using our feedback form.
Travelshooter Veteran Member • Posts: 3,326
Re: Aperture/ISO shootout: rx100 m3; rx100 m6; RX1r; Oly Stylus 1

00630411   I claim it.

-- hide signature --

www.MartinDareff.com

 Travelshooter's gear list:Travelshooter's gear list
Canon PowerShot S95 Sony RX10 IV Sony RX100 VI Samsung Galaxy S7 edge +9 more
phingchian Forum Member • Posts: 96
Re: Aperture/ISO shootout: rx100 m3; rx100 m6; RX1r; Oly Stylus 1

Thanks so much Elliott!!

This is exactly the kind of real-life, low-light comparisons I'm looking for. It's now quite obvious by now that the 1.3 stop loss in maximum aperture in m6 is compensated by the camera in some ways. In fact, all the photos from m6 look sharper than their equivalent counterpart from m3 (probably due to the better IS?)

The sensor in m5 is better than m3 for sure, but I doubt its maximum aperture advantage over m6 can make noticeable difference to a layman like me in a blind test.

RX1 looks great too... oh man, you sure have lots of gears to play with! I was tempted until I looked at its price!

nigelbb Contributing Member • Posts: 535
Re: Aperture/ISO shootout: rx100 m3; rx100 m6; RX1r; Oly Stylus 1

Thanks for more data points. Unfortunately the test still doesn't answer the M5 vs M6 question as the M5 sensor is improved on the M3.

It's only on the edge case that the difference will be shown so for example we need ISO cranked up on the M5 to a level just before the image starts to deteriorate e.g. 1/100 F/1.8 ISO 1600 then the M6 will need about 1/80 F/2.8 ISO 3200. Compare these two images & we have our answer.

 nigelbb's gear list:nigelbb's gear list
Sony RX10 IV Sony RX100 VI Nikon D810 Nikon AF-S Nikkor 14-24mm f/2.8G ED Nikon AF-S Micro-Nikkor 105mm F2.8G IF-ED VR +1 more
phingchian Forum Member • Posts: 96
Re: Aperture/ISO shootout: rx100 m3; rx100 m6; RX1r; Oly Stylus 1

nigelbb wrote:

Thanks for more data points. Unfortunately the test still doesn't answer the M5 vs M6 question as the M5 sensor is improved on the M3.

It's only on the edge case that the difference will be shown so for example we need ISO cranked up on the M5 to a level just before the image starts to deteriorate e.g. 1/100 F/1.8 ISO 1600 then the M6 will need about 1/80 F/2.8 ISO 3200. Compare these two images & we have our answer.

The comparison between m3: 70mm f2.8 ISO1000 and m6: 70mm f4.0 ISO2500 may provide a hint of what can be expected. At 70mm, they are both at their respective maximum apertures and they are at the opposite sides of ISO1600 deterioration boundary. Yet, I don't see much difference (there might even be a slight advantage to m6 because of its higher sharpness).

I agree that m5 vs m6 is still the ultimate test, but too few people have m5 and m6 simultaneously and even fewer is as kind as Elliott to provide us with relevant and concrete evidence!

Based on what I've seen so far, I seriously doubt the theoretical loss of 1.33 stop from the lens represents the exact IQ difference across two models (at least not perceptually). Perhaps like what you've said, the difference may only be apparent in specialized cases, not all low-light photography in general. If so, it will make the lens aperture difference a negligible concern for most prospective buyers.

OP elliottnewcomb Forum Pro • Posts: 16,641
Re: Aperture/ISO shootout: rx100 m3; rx100 m6; RX1r; Oly Stylus 1

Travelshooter wrote:

00630411 I claim it.

I meant to ask you what the heck you meant by 00630411?

-- hide signature --

Elliott

 elliottnewcomb's gear list:elliottnewcomb's gear list
Sony RX1R Olympus Stylus 1 Sony RX100 III Olympus Stylus 1s Sony RX100 VI +1 more
Travelshooter Veteran Member • Posts: 3,326
Re: Aperture/ISO shootout: rx100 m3; rx100 m6; RX1r; Oly Stylus 1

LOL....    that's the serial number on the hundred dollar bill in the picture.  Need my address?

-- hide signature --

www.MartinDareff.com

 Travelshooter's gear list:Travelshooter's gear list
Canon PowerShot S95 Sony RX10 IV Sony RX100 VI Samsung Galaxy S7 edge +9 more
OP elliottnewcomb Forum Pro • Posts: 16,641
Re: Aperture/ISO shootout: rx100 m3; rx100 m6; RX1r; Oly Stylus 1

Good eye, even in that blurry corner,

that is funny money, My good friend's family had them printed for his 60th birthday party, everybody got a stack of money and some gambling tables ....

-- hide signature --

Elliott

 elliottnewcomb's gear list:elliottnewcomb's gear list
Sony RX1R Olympus Stylus 1 Sony RX100 III Olympus Stylus 1s Sony RX100 VI +1 more
Travelshooter Veteran Member • Posts: 3,326
Re: Aperture/ISO shootout: rx100 m3; rx100 m6; RX1r; Oly Stylus 1

LOL.. a company I worked for many moons ago had 20's printed with advertising in the fold. The Treasury Department stopped by the office to tell them to cut that sxxt out.

I'm really liking my m6. Going to shoot jpeg with it, a camera first for me this decade. You have brought out lots of points as I have had to relearn speaking Sony since my/our m3 and m4 days and I thank you for that.  I noticed you shoot -1 EV quite a bit. I can see the cam underexposes mid shadows a good bit which I have been fixing in PP. I PP since I have to add the what and where anyway before it goes to my online gallery. Have you any experience with the series of under exposing a stop and then putting it back on PP import (I use LR)?

This thing certainly burns battery doesn't it? !!

-- hide signature --

www.MartinDareff.com

 Travelshooter's gear list:Travelshooter's gear list
Canon PowerShot S95 Sony RX10 IV Sony RX100 VI Samsung Galaxy S7 edge +9 more
OP elliottnewcomb Forum Pro • Posts: 16,641
Re: Aperture/ISO shootout: rx100 m3; rx100 m6; RX1r; Oly Stylus 1

Travelshooter wrote:

LOL.. a company I worked for many moons ago had 20's printed with advertising in the fold. The Treasury Department stopped by the office to tell them to cut that sxxt out.

I'm really liking my m6. Going to shoot jpeg with it, a camera first for me this decade. You have brought out lots of points as I have had to relearn speaking Sony since my/our m3 and m4 days and I thank you for that.

I noticed you shoot -1 EV quite a bit. I can see the cam underexposes mid shadows a good bit which I have been fixing in PP. I PP since I have to add the what and where anyway before it goes to my online gallery. Have you any experience with the series of under exposing a stop and then putting it back on PP import (I use LR)?

I don't use LR. I make named folders, rename everything I keep, so no auto cataloging for me.

I find all my Sony's, m1, m3, RX1r tend to over-expose a bit outdoors,

I under-expose frequently, -.3, -.7 primarily for better sky, avoid blowouts, get some cloud detail, keep some sky color, and it is amazing, repeat, amazing how much detail lurks in the shadows ready for you to recover.

Will showed me how problematic it is cutting highlights more than a bit, an obvious mess can easily occur, especially skies. Don't forget, I must have my strong shadows, I prefer darker than many for that reason. Will is probably bald by now because of me.

Better yet is to use CPL outdoors. Then you don't need to under-expose, and you get all of the same benefits while seeing and capturing the detail in the shadows in the original. CPL's cut some light, so in a certain sense you are under-exposing by using it. Quality makes a difference in how much light is cut.

I just got this Hoya, new HRT type, combo CPL and UV

https://www.amazon.com/Hoya-Circular-Polarizer-Multi-Coated-Filter/dp/B00344R250

I underexposed those house zoom shots -1.0 because the sun was quite strong, and I would have had lousy skies with no CPL, perhaps lost detail in the window frames and house trim, especially the A frame and circle.

I overdid it, maybe just -.3 would have done, the lcd glare was bad, and the EVF was out of whack, and they were just zoom test shots, it wasn't planned, I just saw the opportunity.

I knew I could lift shadows later and have less problematic skies. Typically I would do that more carefully. My son is ordering me a 42mm MagFilter CPL, Kelli is ordering me a 52mm MagFilter Adapter plate, I have my existing 52mm filters waiting.

This thing certainly burns battery doesn't it? !!

Yes it does, and, some of my 6 year old batteries are not doing well, I need to sort them out, toss a few. I have 10 batteries for 3 Sonys (lost a few chargers traveling, got 2 batteries with every charger).

-- hide signature --

www.MartinDareff.com

-- hide signature --

Elliott

 elliottnewcomb's gear list:elliottnewcomb's gear list
Sony RX1R Olympus Stylus 1 Sony RX100 III Olympus Stylus 1s Sony RX100 VI +1 more
Travelshooter Veteran Member • Posts: 3,326
Re: Aperture/ISO shootout: rx100 m3; rx100 m6; RX1r; Oly Stylus 1

elliottnewcomb wrote:

Travelshooter wrote:

LOL.. a company I worked for many moons ago had 20's printed with advertising in the fold. The Treasury Department stopped by the office to tell them to cut that sxxt out.

I'm really liking my m6. Going to shoot jpeg with it, a camera first for me this decade. You have brought out lots of points as I have had to relearn speaking Sony since my/our m3 and m4 days and I thank you for that.

I noticed you shoot -1 EV quite a bit. I can see the cam underexposes mid shadows a good bit which I have been fixing in PP. I PP since I have to add the what and where anyway before it goes to my online gallery. Have you any experience with the series of under exposing a stop and then putting it back on PP import (I use LR)?

I don't use LR. I make named folders, rename everything I keep, so no auto cataloging for me.

I find all my Sony's, m1, m3, RX1r tend to over-expose a bit outdoors,

That's interesting.  The Fuji's I have bee using tend to underexpose a third to a half minimum.  Different strokes for different manufacturers.

I under-expose frequently, -.3, -.7 primarily for better sky, avoid blowouts, get some cloud detail, keep some sky color, and it is amazing, repeat, amazing how much detail lurks in the shadows ready for you to recover.

Will showed me how problematic it is cutting highlights more than a bit, an obvious mess can easily occur, especially skies. Don't forget, I must have my strong shadows, I prefer darker than many for that reason. Will is probably bald by now because of me.

Better yet is to use CPL outdoors. Then you don't need to under-expose, and you get all of the same benefits while seeing and capturing the detail in the shadows in the original. CPL's cut some light, so in a certain sense you are under-exposing by using it. Quality makes a difference in how much light is cut.

I just got this Hoya, new HRT type, combo CPL and UV

https://www.amazon.com/Hoya-Circular-Polarizer-Multi-Coated-Filter/dp/B00344R250

I underexposed those house zoom shots -1.0 because the sun was quite strong, and I would have had lousy skies with no CPL, perhaps lost detail in the window frames and house trim, especially the A frame and circle.

I overdid it, maybe just -.3 would have done, the lcd glare was bad, and the EVF was out of whack, and they were just zoom test shots, it wasn't planned, I just saw the opportunity.

I knew I could lift shadows later and have less problematic skies. Typically I would do that more carefully. My son is ordering me a 42mm MagFilter CPL, Kelli is ordering me a 52mm MagFilter Adapter plate, I have my existing 52mm filters waiting.

This thing certainly burns battery doesn't it? !!

Yes it does, and, some of my 6 year old batteries are not doing well, I need to sort them out, toss a few. I have 10 batteries for 3 Sonys (lost a few chargers traveling, got 2 batteries with every charger).

-- hide signature --

www.MartinDareff.com

-- hide signature --

Elliott

Thanks for the response Elliott.  After a decade of raw I'm going to shoot this camera jpeg.  I have to learn to make more adjustments than I did with Fuji whose APS-C sensor covered many things.  I will and it won't be an issue.

LOL with decent results with CIZ I certainly  don't feel much pressure to get a RX10 m4 before our September Montreal to NYC cruise.  December San Juan to Menasis Brazil is another issue.  I' d like to wait for a RX 10 M5 but booked trips are what they are and I want the extra reach for the Amazon and later trips.--
www.MartinDareff.com

 Travelshooter's gear list:Travelshooter's gear list
Canon PowerShot S95 Sony RX10 IV Sony RX100 VI Samsung Galaxy S7 edge +9 more
OP elliottnewcomb Forum Pro • Posts: 16,641
Re: Aperture/ISO shootout: rx100 m3; rx100 m6; RX1r; Oly Stylus 1

any chance we can meet when you are in NYC in Sept.?

-- hide signature --

Elliott

 elliottnewcomb's gear list:elliottnewcomb's gear list
Sony RX1R Olympus Stylus 1 Sony RX100 III Olympus Stylus 1s Sony RX100 VI +1 more
OP elliottnewcomb Forum Pro • Posts: 16,641
Re: Aperture/ISO shootout: rx100 m3; rx100 m6; RX1r; Oly Stylus 1

jrtrent, in another thread, indicates DRO (by several names, various brands) does something similar to me (and others): under-expose to preserve highlights, and 'selectively' recover shadows. I am not selective, I just use the slider.

his text there, my emphasis:

"And not being a Sony user, I don't know if DRO affects highlights, either, though the review at Imaging Resource suggests that it doesn't. My understanding is that DRO, like Olympus's Shadow Adjustment Technology and Nikon's Auto D-Lighting is an application of Apical's tone mapping technology. With Olympus, using SAT (by choosing auto gradation in settings) does, in fact, reduce exposure to protect highlights in high dynamic range conditions, then selectively lifts shadows. Nikon's application of it does, too, but from what I've read in the past at Apical's site, manufacturers are free to implement the technology in various ways.

However, if all DRO does is lift shadows, then a better JPEG could still have been made than that first DPR sample image (I didn't bother to download all of samples you picked, but I did download that first one) by using a better exposure. From the Exif data, the exposure chosen (1/250, f/4, ISO 125) was suited to what exposure charts call EV12 conditions (e.g., overcast skies), but the picture appears to contain distinct shadows, which would be more like EV14. Using exposure settings to keep the sky values more natural, then letting DRO lift the shadows, would likely have resulted in a better JPEG. Shadows would have been noisier than in the raw exposure, but that might not be noticeable, to me anyway, when just viewing the picture normally (that is, not 100% crops).

The High Dynamic Range feature, which blends three pictures at different exposure settings, and with the user able to choose anything from 1 EV step differences to 6 EV steps, might have matched the raw image for noise levels. Again, not sure since I don't have that camera or feature to play with."

...........................................

I will spend more time checking DRO and HDR in the m6, among other things

I will need to check this out in my Stylus 1

Olympus, using SAT Shadow Adjustment Technology (by choosing auto gradation in settings)

Elliott

 elliottnewcomb's gear list:elliottnewcomb's gear list
Sony RX1R Olympus Stylus 1 Sony RX100 III Olympus Stylus 1s Sony RX100 VI +1 more
Travelshooter Veteran Member • Posts: 3,326
Re: Aperture/ISO shootout: rx100 m3; rx100 m6; RX1r; Oly Stylus 1

elliottnewcomb wrote:

any chance we can meet when you are in NYC in Sept.?

Elliott..   I'd love to but in NY we are going straight from ship early AM to Kennedy A/P to return to Miami.  You ever in Miami?

-- hide signature --

www.MartinDareff.com

 Travelshooter's gear list:Travelshooter's gear list
Canon PowerShot S95 Sony RX10 IV Sony RX100 VI Samsung Galaxy S7 edge +9 more
OP elliottnewcomb Forum Pro • Posts: 16,641
Re: Aperture/ISO shootout: rx100 m3; rx100 m6; RX1r; Oly Stylus 1

Travelshooter wrote:

elliottnewcomb wrote:

any chance we can meet when you are in NYC in Sept.?

Elliott.. I'd love to but in NY we are going straight from ship early AM to Kennedy A/P to return to Miami. You ever in Miami?

Not in a long time. We will be in Jacksonville late October, then checking on the boat in Hollywood for a few days, back to NJ. Miami is only about 1 hr south of Hollywood I think.

Will you be around end of October?

-- hide signature --

Elliott

 elliottnewcomb's gear list:elliottnewcomb's gear list
Sony RX1R Olympus Stylus 1 Sony RX100 III Olympus Stylus 1s Sony RX100 VI +1 more
Travelshooter Veteran Member • Posts: 3,326
Re: Aperture/ISO shootout: rx100 m3; rx100 m6; RX1r; Oly Stylus 1

Yup, should be and Hollywood is sure close enough.  Used to go test shooting there.

Used to go to Hollywood Beach every week to exercise walk the boardwalk until they started charging big time to park.  Now I walk the perimeter of the island we live on instead.  A meet in Hollywood/Hollywood Beach would be great.

-- hide signature --

www.MartinDareff.com

 Travelshooter's gear list:Travelshooter's gear list
Canon PowerShot S95 Sony RX10 IV Sony RX100 VI Samsung Galaxy S7 edge +9 more
OP elliottnewcomb Forum Pro • Posts: 16,641
Re: Aperture/ISO shootout: rx100 m3; rx100 m6; RX1r; Oly Stylus 1

Travelshooter wrote:

Yup, should be and Hollywood is sure close enough. Used to go test shooting there.

Used to go to Hollywood Beach every week to exercise walk the boardwalk until they started charging big time to park. Now I walk the perimeter of the island we live on instead. A meet in Hollywood/Hollywood Beach would be great.

Nice photos,

OK, When I get a schedule out of my son, I will write you a private message,

I look forward to meeting you,

-- hide signature --

Elliott

 elliottnewcomb's gear list:elliottnewcomb's gear list
Sony RX1R Olympus Stylus 1 Sony RX100 III Olympus Stylus 1s Sony RX100 VI +1 more
(unknown member) Senior Member • Posts: 2,516
Re: Aperture/ISO shootout: rx100 m3; rx100 m6; RX1r; Oly Stylus 1

nigelbb wrote:

Thanks for more data points. Unfortunately the test still doesn't answer the M5 vs M6 question as the M5 sensor is improved on the M3.

It's only on the edge case that the difference will be shown so for example we need ISO cranked up on the M5 to a level just before the image starts to deteriorate e.g. 1/100 F/1.8 ISO 1600 then the M6 will need about 1/80 F/2.8 ISO 3200. Compare these two images & we have our answer.

Needs to be ISO 4000.

Travelshooter Veteran Member • Posts: 3,326
Re: Aperture/ISO shootout: rx100 m3; rx100 m6; RX1r; Oly Stylus 1

elliottnewcomb wrote:

Travelshooter wrote:

Yup, should be and Hollywood is sure close enough. Used to go test shooting there.

Used to go to Hollywood Beach every week to exercise walk the boardwalk until they started charging big time to park. Now I walk the perimeter of the island we live on instead. A meet in Hollywood/Hollywood Beach would be great.

Nice photos,

OK, When I get a schedule out of my son, I will write you a private message,

I look forward to meeting you,

AOK, looking forward to it.

-- hide signature --

www.MartinDareff.com

 Travelshooter's gear list:Travelshooter's gear list
Canon PowerShot S95 Sony RX10 IV Sony RX100 VI Samsung Galaxy S7 edge +9 more
Keyboard shortcuts:
FForum MMy threads