What's happening, Olympus? And the E-M5 III ?

MShot wrote:

M43 lenses don't need PDAF for fast AF. FT lenses do because they were designed for it. They rack in and out slowly to find focus without it.

No, M43 lenses don't absolutely need it, but it can still be helpful if they can take advantage of it. It is, after all, one of the factors that contribute to the E-M1 Mark II having faster continuous AF than the E-M5 Mark II (and why almost every other manufacturer of mirrorless cameras is introducing on-sensor PDAF to its range). Panasonic of course are the exception as they prefer to use their Depth From Defocus system with CDAF.

Helen wrote:

MShot wrote:

M43 lenses don't need PDAF for fast AF. FT lenses do because they were designed for it. They rack in and out slowly to find focus without it.

No, M43 lenses don't absolutely need it, but it can still be helpful if they can take advantage of it. It is, after all, one of the factors that contribute to the E-M1 Mark II having faster continuous AF than the E-M5 Mark II (and why almost every other manufacturer of mirrorless cameras is introducing on-sensor PDAF to its range). Panasonic of course are the exception as they prefer to use their Depth From Defocus system with CDAF.

The value of PD-AF is wide ranging. Continous AF is just the most obvious example. (Even for single shot photography Initial PD-AF followed by CD-AF fine tune may be the best method currently.)

Cell phones to FF ILCs use it, for good reason.

Panasonic has a system that hinges on a large set of lens data being available to the camera, and in reality it only works for (most?all?) Panasonic lenses. For a system with multiple manufacturers of compatible lenses, this is, shall we say, a less than optimal solution.

Yes, and tracking is better too

MShot wrote:

A SONY engineer told me sensor upgrades still take 3 years and they can't do anything to speed it up.

Plus of course trying to negotiate time on the sensor production line as those darn smartphone cameras with multiple cameras are keeping them busy. Just a guess, but that's where the money really comes from.

Software upgrades take 18 months. It pretty much brackets what camera makers can do.

Yes, think of a new camera design and if in an extreme hurry and things go right it would be maybe 2 years to see it, though more like 3 years from idea to shelf at the fastest.

My guess is the current design panic is the onset of 8K mania that is trying to be pumped up along with the 2020 Tokyo Olympics - that could be draining valuable R&D efforts.

Regards..... Guy

Sergey Borachev wrote:

I believe Olympus has said the PEN F was an experiment, or a trial. And as far as I know, that has not been a very successful one and so it was canned.

In an interview Olympus admitted that the Pen-F had almost met expectations, or some words like that. So they almost might make a successor.

Regards..... Guy

Personally I think Olympus should be looking to release the EM-1 Mk3 and discontinuing some of their lower models.

They need to compete more with the Sony offering and with the forthcoming Canikon mirrorless systems as well as the G9. The Mk2 is a very good camera but some of the hardware is a bit dated now (eg EVF) and since perception is reality in marketing, it is starting to appear "old".

Humansvillian wrote:

Olympus needs a new PL1, not a new OMD M5 III.

I'll drink to that, but sadly they will never come out with a sensible camera again unless they somehow manage to ban all smartphones.

Regards..... Guy

I am surprised few have noticed that everyone has their Goldilocks camera, their acceptable price point etc.

The 1.2 lenses are to sell to existing customers, a very good strategy as they aren't going to sell any more 1.8 lenses as the market is saturated and 1.4 lenses are even less differentiated than 1.2 is from 1.8

As for camera bodies, you say 18 months like it is a lifetime. Camera manufacturers will leapfrog each other in some areas. And while you hyperbole suggests the EM1.2 somehow was left behind it still leads in tech in more areas than you seem to want to see.

The big question now is, what will they do with their system. The 1.2 lenses show a commitment and allow for sales of the em1.2 and lenses by supporting the upper end of the product range allowing both established user within to upgrade but also knowledgable photographers to have something to switch to.

The lenses bring in sales while the bodies are between cycles.

Olympus is aware that Canon and Nikon will enter the market in a serious fashion, anything they release or announce will be lost in the noise of the giants moving into the space. Once the dust is settled I wouldn't be surprised to see them take advantage of the acknowledgement of mirrorless as the future, and M43 as one of the most advanced systems on the market with an incredible lens suite.

So, patience. You say the em5.2 is outdated and yet mine still keeps earning me money. Somehow my commercial clients don't seem to be as tied up in knots as the artists and photographers here.

Guy Parsons wrote:

MShot wrote:

A SONY engineer told me sensor upgrades still take 3 years and they can't do anything to speed it up.

Plus of course trying to negotiate time on the sensor production line as those darn smartphone cameras with multiple cameras are keeping them busy. Just a guess, but that's where the money really comes from.

Software upgrades take 18 months. It pretty much brackets what camera makers can do.

Yes, think of a new camera design and if in an extreme hurry and things go right it would be maybe 2 years to see it, though more like 3 years from idea to shelf at the fastest.

My guess is the current design panic is the onset of 8K mania that is trying to be pumped up along with the 2020 Tokyo Olympics - that could be draining valuable R&D efforts.

Regards..... Guy

The long lead time for getting a new camera out is making this game too hard, and needs good planning and crystal ball gazing. Sony obviously has spoilt the plans of others with its aggressive pricing, quick update cycle, and  fast pace in using new technology.

Kiwisnap wrote:

Personally I think Olympus should be looking to release the EM-1 Mk3 and discontinuing some of their lower models.

They need to compete more with the Sony offering and with the forthcoming Canikon mirrorless systems as well as the G9. The Mk2 is a very good camera but some of the hardware is a bit dated now (eg EVF) and since perception is reality in marketing, it is starting to appear "old".

Olympus is doing the (only) right thing they can do given timings. New sensor with significant performance improvement (outperforming IQ level of A7III) will be ready in Q4. They delayed launching any flagship before this new sensor is ready. Instead they are focusing on building the best lens line-up in the market.

Q1 2019 they are launching their new flagship, above EM1 Mark II in every aspect and including new sensor . They expect to shake the FF market significantly, and the equivalence will favor M43 (in a situation where further sensor improvements in FF are already bringing diminishing improvements). It is going to be quite interesting for the market to see what happens with M43 top liners bringing IQ at a level of current top line FFs. Whether FF will suffer as MF did in the past or whether it will manage to keep the lead will be dependant on Markeing efforts; technology-wise there will be little arguments to hold on FF with the size/price/lens advantage that M43 formats will bring.

Together with the new sensor, there are another 3 relevant market players (2 in adjacent industries) that will enter M43 as well. More players in the M43 ecosystem means more developments of the format but is also needed to gain Marketing muscle and make it the mainstream format moving forward.

Sony A7 III pricing was in anticipation to these developments, making mirrorles FF the only “way-to-go” for 2018. At the same time, they are ready to fight back on the A6 line; but they lack such a lens lineup as M43 has and the open ecosystem.

Expect specs to start filtering 3 months from now. Interesting times ahead.

Ab Latchin wrote:

I am surprised few have noticed that everyone has their Goldilocks camera, their acceptable price point etc.

The 1.2 lenses are to sell to existing customers, a very good strategy as they aren't going to sell any more 1.8 lenses as the market is saturated and 1.4 lenses are even less differentiated than 1.2 is from 1.8

My guess is that those.exotic lenses can only sell to a very small portion of the existing customers. So it's a very small target. I would think the R&D could be better spent on updating its outdated cameras.

As for camera bodies, you say 18 months like it is a lifetime. Camera manufacturers will leapfrog each other in some areas. And while you hyperbole suggests the EM1.2 somehow was left behind it still leads in tech in more areas than you seem to want to see.

My comments considered also the price and competitiveness of the E-M1 II. If it's so advanced, it does not need to be discounted $500 so quickly. It's a flagship.

The big question now is, what will they do with their system. The 1.2 lenses show a commitment and allow for sales of the em1.2 and lenses by supporting the upper end of the product range allowing both established user within to upgrade but also knowledgable photographers to have something to switch to.

The lenses bring in sales while the bodies are between cycles.

Expensive lenses need to deliver high quality images commensurate with their prices. I believe there is a limit to what IQ these lenses can deliver (mounted on a M43 camera when compared to what can be obtained from larger sensors cameras with similarly priced camera+ lens package). Like Sony A7 III or Fuji latest offerings. You are right that these lenses are aiming at those already in M43. R&D in cameras are more likely to attract new buyers IMO.

Olympus is aware that Canon and Nikon will enter the market in a serious fashion, anything they release or announce will be lost in the noise of the giants moving into the space.

That's no excuse for delaying the E-M5 III, which is not competing with new FFs coming out at nearly double the price. The real reason, I suspect, is poor strategy and planning. I am speculating but it seems they probably are scrambling to revert to a Plan-B, when they realised 16MP and whatever they had planned are not going to be worth releasing. Right or wrong, the outcome is the same, there is nothing to update this old model that is becoming increasing important, given the less rosy future prospects of the E-M1 line.

Once the dust is settled I wouldn't be surprised to see them take advantage of the acknowledgement of mirrorless as the future, and M43 as one of the most advanced systems on the market with an incredible lens suite.

So, patience. You say the em5.2 is outdated and yet mine still keeps earning me money. Somehow my commercial clients don't seem to be as tied up in knots as the artists and photographers here.

My E-M5s are also still working and I haven't updated them as I look for more IQ Improvement (and at reasonable cost) than what has been available. There's only so much that lenses alone can do. I still think the E-M5 III is too late. It will be too late, if it can only be released in May 2019 as speculated, but hopefully not too little again.

Nachupi wrote:

Kiwisnap wrote:

Personally I think Olympus should be looking to release the EM-1 Mk3 and discontinuing some of their lower models.

They need to compete more with the Sony offering and with the forthcoming Canikon mirrorless systems as well as the G9. The Mk2 is a very good camera but some of the hardware is a bit dated now (eg EVF) and since perception is reality in marketing, it is starting to appear "old".

Olympus is doing the (only) right thing they can do given timings. New sensor with significant performance improvement (outperforming IQ level of A7III) will be ready in Q4. They delayed launching any flagship before this new sensor is ready. Instead they are focusing on building the best lens line-up in the market.

Q1 2019 they are launching their new flagship, above EM1 Mark II in every aspect and including new sensor . They expect to shake the FF market significantly, and the equivalence will favor M43 (in a situation where further sensor improvements in FF are already bringing diminishing improvements). It is going to be quite interesting for the market to see what happens with M43 top liners bringing IQ at a level of current top line FFs. Whether FF will suffer as MF did in the past or whether it will manage to keep the lead will be dependant on Markeing efforts; technology-wise there will be little arguments to hold on FF with the size/price/lens advantage that M43 formats will bring.

Together with the new sensor, there are another 3 relevant market players (2 in adjacent industries) that will enter M43 as well. More players in the M43 ecosystem means more developments of the format but is also needed to gain Marketing muscle and make it the mainstream format moving forward.

Sony A7 III pricing was in anticipation to these developments, making mirrorles FF the only “way-to-go” for 2018. At the same time, they are ready to fight back on the A6 line; but they lack such a lens lineup as M43 has and the open ecosystem.

Expect specs to start filtering 3 months from now. Interesting times ahead.

😳 [speechless]

Can you share something about your background or your source please?