What's happening, Olympus? And the E-M5 III ?

Look at these first.

3 FT5 rumours (i.e. supposedly 99% accurate):

-There will be another f/1.2 PRO lens, with an FL of 12mm.

- They will be no new cameras this year.

- There will be a 100th anniversary camera. (Anniversary is in October 2019)

That’s another rumour which should be accurate – Canon and Nikon are getting their FF mirrorless out soon, probably a few months before Christmas. A price war is likely as these new mirrorless makers cannot compete in general on features, lens range or whatever, and will have to attract buyers with lower prices.

Some facts and observations:

- Olympus made a profit the previous year, although we don’t actually know how much of that was due to structuring, staff cuts and other things done for cost saving.

- There are already 3 such f/1.2 PRO lenses, and M43 has a nice range of lenses, but no prime lenses under 12mm. We don’t know how profitable these f/1.2 lenses are or will be. These 4 lenses all cost as much as the Olympus flagship can hope to sell at.

- The E-M5 II is 3½ years old. It’s not competitive, not even when compared to the cheaper 16MP G85. Competitors’ cameras have these main advantages, on-sensor PDAF, more MPs, better ISO performance, superior video, and/or lower prices...

- There have been no new cameras from Olympus that are exciting since the 1½-year-old E-M1 II, which was put in its place by new camera releases that are similarly priced but offer significantly more. It's selling at significantly lower price than at launch for a flagship. The E-M10 and E-PL9 are both limited updates, and still use the 16MP sensors (c.f. 24MP on all competitors’ entry level cameras.

- Fuji and Sony FF have both got more lenses in their line up now, and Fuji in particular are getting arthritis competitive in both lens price and quality. Sony lenses are expensive but that’s improving as Sigma and other independents make more lenses for Sony and some are very high quality and reasonably priced, though big.

- Olympus is maintaining a lead in lenses, but not so much in the normal FL range now. It has already lost as a unique advantage, IBIS, over recent years. The occasionally useful feature called HiRes is already in Panasonic's G9.
So, is Olympus going to change strategy and rely less on selling fancy products at prices that are seen as to high for a small format system, now that the A7III is here followed soon by other cheap FF cameras? Or,.should it try to become like Leica and ignored others prices?

I have always thought that the E-M5 should be its bread and butter line, and that should be given its full attention, ie to sell at a high volume if it can be given solid features in a compact body, and, a.sensible price. However this line was so neglected, don't you think? The E-M5 was a game changer. Can Olympus still make it great again. Maybe as the 100th anniversary camera? I think Olympus should try to do that since the E-M1 line has little future given the price squeeze from Sony and later from Canikon.

Sergey Borachev wrote:

Daiken wrote:

I'm okay with Olympus killing off the E-M5 line. Keep the E-M1, E-M10, and the Pen line and that's it.

As for what Olympus is doing, I dont know but whatever they're doing better be good and fast because I think the competition is really encroaching on their market share right now. There's stiff competition coming from every side and the fact that they havent upgraded their entire line yet to use the 20mp sensors spells trouble imo. A 12mm f1.2 isn't going to save the system.

But the E-M1 line is the one that is threatened, from the Sony and soon the Canikon FF mirrorless cameras. Maybe it should be merged into the E-M5 III to produce a lower priced and more sustainable product.

I am no smart enough to know if that makes good business sense, but as a camera owner, I would prefer that route for me.  I see so much in the E-M1 II that I don't need out of Micro 4/3, but I would love my E-M5ii to a sensor upgrade and say PDAF... otherwise it can stay exactly the same.

I'm curious, what is PDAF and what is it for?

Peter Del

I'm not a camera market expert but the EM5.2 is still a very good camera at an excellent price point. A refresh with a 20 mpix sensor at the $1K price point would be very competitive.

Sergey Borachev wrote:

Look at these first.

3 FT5 rumours (i.e. supposedly 99% accurate):

-There will be another f/1.2 PRO lens, with an FL of 12mm.

It seems that this might be true.

- They will be no new cameras this year.

This might also be true.

- There will be a 100th anniversary camera. (Anniversary is in October 2019)

Most likely correct.

That’s another rumour which should be accurate – Canon and Nikon are getting their FF mirrorless out soon, probably a few months before Christmas. A price war is likely as these new mirrorless makers cannot compete in general on features, lens range or whatever, and will have to attract buyers with lower prices.

One would expect Canon and Nikon to release FF late this year or next year.  One doesn't know what market segment and price point their initial offerings will be aimed at.

Some facts and observations:

- Olympus made a profit the previous year, although we don’t actually know how much of that was due to structuring, staff cuts and other things done for cost saving.

Profit is nice.

- There are already 3 such f/1.2 PRO lenses, and M43 has a nice range of lenses, but no prime lenses under 12mm. We don’t know how profitable these f/1.2 lenses are or will be. These 4 lenses all cost as much as the Olympus flagship can hope to sell at.

I hope that a Pro prime below 12mm will be marketed sometime in the future.

Olympus keep releasing the expensive F1.2 Pro Primes so they must think they are making a profit on them.

Why would you think that the next Olympus flagship camera can not sell for more than what the Prime Pro lenses sell for.   The next Olympus flagship camera just might have a sensor in it (like the rumor stacked, bsi, organic sensor with global shutter) that will out perform the current FF sensors.

- The E-M5 II is 3½ years old. It’s not competitive, not even when compared to the cheaper 16MP G85. Competitors’ cameras have these main advantages, on-sensor PDAF, more MPs, better ISO performance, superior video, and/or lower prices...

The E-M5 Mkii should have had the E-M1 sensor in it that has PDAF.

- There have been no new cameras from Olympus that are exciting since the 1½-year-old E-M1 II, which was put in its place by new camera releases that are similarly priced but offer significantly more. It's selling at significantly lower price than at launch for a flagship. The E-M10 and E-PL9 are both limited updates, and still use the 16MP sensors (c.f. 24MP on all competitors’ entry level cameras.

Yes no new exciting camera releases from Olympus since the E-M1.2 was release.

Rumors early this year was to expect a new E-M5 Mkiii and an anniversary camera this year.  The rumors how has changed to Olympus is rethinking their camera line-up and will have some exciting new announcements early next year.  What the rethinking of camera line-up will result in is all speculations now.

- Fuji and Sony FF have both got more lenses in their line up now, and Fuji in particular are getting arthritis competitive in both lens price and quality. Sony lenses are expensive but that’s improving as Sigma and other independents make more lenses for Sony and some are very high quality and reasonably priced, though big.

Filling out lens line-ups by a company is a good thing.  Olympus has a fairly well thought through and complete lens line-up at this point so lens releases will slow up in the future.

- Olympus is maintaining a lead in lenses, but not so much in the normal FL range now. It has already lost as a unique advantage, IBIS, over recent years. The occasionally useful feature called HiRes is already in Panasonic's G9.

Olympus has always seem to lead in releasing new technology tricks.  We might be pleasantly surprise at some future technology tricks Olympus will release in the future.

So, is Olympus going to change strategy and rely less on selling fancy products at prices that are seen as to high for a small format system, now that the A7III is here followed soon by other cheap FF cameras? Or,.should it try to become like Leica and ignored others prices?

Rumor is that Olympus is rethinking their camera line-up.  For some reason you think that the A7iii is a price point that a small sensor camera can not exceed.  You also think that Canon and Nikon can not exceed the A7iii price point.  Yet Sony themselves have exceeded this price point  with the A9.

It could be that Olympus is rethinking their camera line-up because the next generation of camera sensor is getting ready to be release.  If it is the rumor organic sensor using BSI and stack technology and have a global shutter, and if (it is a big if) it is half as good as the rumors this sensor could exceed the current FF sensor in terms of image quality and image noise.  So a flagship MFT camera using this sensor and have the speed of the A9 might easily be sold at more than the current Sony A7iii.

Another possibility is that that the E7iii is the top end price and MFT cameras line-up all has to be below that price point in the future.  This future is very limited since even the flagship camera will have to have limitations to met this price point.

I have always thought that the E-M5 should be its bread and butter line, and that should be given its full attention, ie to sell at a high volume if it can be given solid features in a compact body, and, a.sensible price. However this line was so neglected, don't you think? The E-M5 was a game changer. Can Olympus still make it great again. Maybe as the 100th anniversary camera? I think Olympus should try to do that since the E-M1 line has little future given the price squeeze from Sony and later from Canikon.

I am assuming that re-thinking their camera line-up means that camera names will be changed.  Yes, the mid-level camera is the bread and butter camera in a camera line-up.

Anyhow, if a new camera line-up is coming next year how would a person feel if Olympus releases an E-M5.3 this year with just evolutionary improvements like having the E-M1.2 20MP PDAF sensor and then next year have a totally improved mid-level camera with a much better sensor.  It is best to hold off a few months.

What the new rethinking of the camera line-up ends up being is still speculation.

It's not going to happen, but I would like to see Olympus develop the Pen F into a flagship camera, with emphasis on IQ.

I bought a reconditioned Pen F back while waiting for Olympus to update the E-M1, but by the time the E-M1 II came out, I was in love with the Pen F.  Since I do hardly any sports, wildlife or other action photography, I saw no need to upgrade to another 20mp body.

From a marketing standpoint, I can't see how Olympus will continue to compete by offering cameras like the E-M1 II. Almost as soon as it came out, the Nikon D500 matched it in action performance and price. Even at its currently discounted price, there are a lot of other choices.

Frankly, the only things keeping me here in m43-land are the Pen F, my lenses and inertia,