Joe Edelman and M4/3

[Tommi K1]

Just look at the polarization in today's politics where people only want to hear things that agree with their preconceived opinions.

Where that would put me, who wants to hear what the "other side" is saying and how they are seeing things as first assumption is that I don't know what I should know and so on I can be wrong until found otherwise....?

That is as well a reason why I changed from a Canon (and Nikon) to Olympus because I got more by doing so. If you would have asked from me 2010 that what I think about m4/3 system, I would be like any FF fanboy talking about equivalence and all, without knowing so much better. Until really took up the challenge to show that what are m4/3 limitations and guess what, I prove myself to be wrong. I put mouth to the game, I put my money to the game and I lost to myself...

And yet so many here has no idea what m4/3 really can do, because they just look someone "higher than them" and think they are right because they admire their position where those people are.

And regardless all that, I am still waiting Canon to get up and bring their A game to mirrorless market, as on my heart has Canon written all over it.

 

[Tommi K1]

I wrote a long reply to this thread, but I thought it warranted a thread of its own.

I do not understand a “Top Professional” who does not understand that every format has its own strengths and weaknesses.

Somebody at the top of their profession should understand this.

You don't understand someone not understanding something that they should understand something.

There is clearly lack of understanding going on there....

 

[tbcass]

Just look at the polarization in today's politics where people only want to hear things that agree with their preconceived opinions.

Where that would put me, who wants to hear what the "other side" is saying and how they are seeing things as first assumption is that I don't know what I should know and so on I can be wrong until found otherwise....?

That would make you a thinker and someone willing to learn. Many people are unwilling to learn something new, maybe because it takes some effort.

 

[mobi1]

Haven't seen anything yet but big Canons and Nikons used at the sidelines

This is similar to you only see Apple computers in Hollywood movies. They were handed over to producers to market their ecosystem.

 

[sportyaccordy]

I don't shoot for money or to demonstrate my skill... I shoot to enjoy the process, geek out over gear and document my life. To those ends, FF will always beat MFT

 

[Glen Barrington]

I don't shoot for money or to demonstrate my skill... I shoot to enjoy the process, geek out over gear and document my life. To those ends, FF will always beat MFT

 

[PerL]

Haven't seen anything yet but big Canons and Nikons used at the sidelines

This is similar to you only see Apple computers in Hollywood movies. They were handed over to producers to market their ecosystem.

Its a little different to hand over a computer or two for a movie compared to handing out or lending out millions of dollars worth of cameras and lenses at every broadcasted sports and news event (which virtually all are dominated by Canon/Nikon cameras).

But I am sure you was joking.

--
https://www.instagram.com/holidzf/

 

[PerL]

Meanwhile I watch the World Cup in soccer everyday on TV. Haven't seen anything yet but big Canons and Nikons used at the sidelines by the pros at this huge event.
Some cameras are good at being small, some cameras are better in other matters.

Do you know how many of them is offered a free cameras and lenses from Canon and Nikon?

They are not "offered free cameras". They use Canon/Nikon in their usual work. Canon/Nikon offers replacement cameras/lenses as backups and sometimes you can lend them for testing them out.

A pro photographer at the Wold Cup with a typical set has equipment for maybe 40.000 dollars. Maybe 30-50 photographers work at a game/match. Thats is millions of dollars of equipment. There are 3-4 games going on every day at the first rounds. The travelling distances between the arenas is huge - next day there are 3-4 games on a totally different place, hours of flight away. Off course Canon and Nikon cant keep all this under their arms.

Then when you are brainwashed from the begin to Canon and Nikon (because they were the only players in town just about 10 years ago) you are very very locked to their ecosystems, not just by a mount, but by your attitude as that is all you know and you are familiar to them. You know their service centers, you know their functions and capabilities, you keep things simple by going just with one file format etc.

Its not brain washing - the other brands cant compete in this area. Sony might have chance with the A9 if/when the big lenses arrive.

They are doing their JOB, not playing reviewers or testing new gear when they are in the critical job!

And then there are people who go and say that because they see only Canon and Nikon, others can't do at least the same and even more.

 

[MILC man]

Meanwhile I watch the World Cup in soccer everyday on TV. Haven't seen anything yet but big Canons and Nikons used at the sidelines by the pros at this huge event.
Some cameras are good at being small, some cameras are better in other matters.

Do you know how many of them is offered a free cameras and lenses from Canon and Nikon?

They are not "offered free cameras".

not true, canikon does offer free cameras and lenses at events, if the photographer is part of their pro support programs.

"Last week, I reported Canon Professional Services was gearing up to support pro sports photographers at the 2016 Summer Olympics. Now Canon has released a list of the most requested camera and lens equipment they are loaning out at the Games."

http://blog.michaeldanielho.com/2016/08/top-ten-camera-and-lens-on-loan-by.html

Then when you are brainwashed from the begin to Canon and Nikon (because they were the only players in town just about 10 years ago) you are very very locked to their ecosystems, not just by a mount, but by your attitude as that is all you know and you are familiar to them. You know their service centers, you know their functions and capabilities, you keep things simple by going just with one file format etc.

Its not brain washing - the other brands cant compete in this area. Sony might have chance with the A9 if/when the big lenses arrive.

you are confused about what lenses are actually used a sporting events... 500mm and longer constitutes only a small portion of the photos that are taken.

"As a snapshot of events near to the time of writing, Sony North America Pro Imaging Support was on-site at the 2018 Super Bowl, US Open Tennis Championship, PGA Championship, President’s Cup, Sony Hawaii Open, Dew Tour, and will be at the 2018 NCAA Final Four. It also offered support at the FIG World Artistic Gymnastics Championship in Montreal and had a service centre in Pyeongchang for the 2018 Winter Olympics.

Sony UK provided a service facility outside the venue of last summer’s World Athletic Championships in London. Sony Australia provided a service centre in Melbourne to offer support and loan gear to photographers attending the Australian Open, and also promised local support for the Commonwealth Games."

https://www.cameralabs.com/sony-imaging-pro-support-review/

 

[PerL]

Meanwhile I watch the World Cup in soccer everyday on TV. Haven't seen anything yet but big Canons and Nikons used at the sidelines by the pros at this huge event.
Some cameras are good at being small, some cameras are better in other matters.

Do you know how many of them is offered a free cameras and lenses from Canon and Nikon?

They are not "offered free cameras".

not true, canikon does offer free cameras and lenses at events, if the photographer is part of their pro support programs.

But the photographers have their own cameras. Nobody shows up without a camera. Even if there is a loaning service. Do you really think the photographers at the World Cup in reality works with different systems, like Pentaxes, Olympus, iPhone or what not. But then every other year or so at the World Cup or the Olympics, they finally get a chance to use the real tools?

"Last week, I reported Canon Professional Services was gearing up to support pro sports photographers at the 2016 Summer Olympics. Now Canon has released a list of the most requested camera and lens equipment they are loaning out at the Games."

http://blog.michaeldanielho.com/2016/08/top-ten-camera-and-lens-on-loan-by.html

Then when you are brainwashed from the begin to Canon and Nikon (because they were the only players in town just about 10 years ago) you are very very locked to their ecosystems, not just by a mount, but by your attitude as that is all you know and you are familiar to them. You know their service centers, you know their functions and capabilities, you keep things simple by going just with one file format etc.

Its not brain washing - the other brands cant compete in this area. Sony might have chance with the A9 if/when the big lenses arrive.

"As a snapshot of events near to the time of writing, Sony North America Pro Imaging Support was on-site at the 2018 Super Bowl, US Open Tennis Championship, PGA Championship, President’s Cup, Sony Hawaii Open, Dew Tour, and will be at the 2018 NCAA Final Four. It also offered support at the FIG World Artistic Gymnastics Championship in Montreal and had a service centre in Pyeongchang for the 2018 Winter Olympics.

Sony UK provided a service facility outside the venue of last summer’s World Athletic Championships in London. Sony Australia provided a service centre in Melbourne to offer support and loan gear to photographers attending the Australian Open, and also promised local support for the Commonwealth Games."

https://www.cameralabs.com/sony-imaging-pro-support-review/

 

[PerL]

Meanwhile I watch the World Cup in soccer everyday on TV. Haven't seen anything yet but big Canons and Nikons used at the sidelines by the pros at this huge event.
Some cameras are good at being small, some cameras are better in other matters.

Do you know how many of them is offered a free cameras and lenses from Canon and Nikon?

They are not "offered free cameras".

not true, canikon does offer free cameras and lenses at events, if the photographer is part of their pro support programs.

"Last week, I reported Canon Professional Services was gearing up to support pro sports photographers at the 2016 Summer Olympics. Now Canon has released a list of the most requested camera and lens equipment they are loaning out at the Games."

http://blog.michaeldanielho.com/2016/08/top-ten-camera-and-lens-on-loan-by.html

Then when you are brainwashed from the begin to Canon and Nikon (because they were the only players in town just about 10 years ago) you are very very locked to their ecosystems, not just by a mount, but by your attitude as that is all you know and you are familiar to them. You know their service centers, you know their functions and capabilities, you keep things simple by going just with one file format etc.

Its not brain washing - the other brands cant compete in this area. Sony might have chance with the A9 if/when the big lenses arrive.

you are confused about what lenses are actually used a sporting events... 500mm and longer constitutes only a small portion of the photos that are taken.

Please, you have to have some knowledge if I should debate this.

"As a snapshot of events near to the time of writing, Sony North America Pro Imaging Support was on-site at the 2018 Super Bowl, US Open Tennis Championship, PGA Championship, President’s Cup, Sony Hawaii Open, Dew Tour, and will be at the 2018 NCAA Final Four. It also offered support at the FIG World Artistic Gymnastics Championship in Montreal and had a service centre in Pyeongchang for the 2018 Winter Olympics.

Sony UK provided a service facility outside the venue of last summer’s World Athletic Championships in London. Sony Australia provided a service centre in Melbourne to offer support and loan gear to photographers attending the Australian Open, and also promised local support for the Commonwealth Games."

https://www.cameralabs.com/sony-imaging-pro-support-review/

 

[Brad Bohland]

Can you give us a precis of what he said for us Luddites please.

The smaller file sizes speed up post processing by a third to a half but MFT has more noise which he likens to film grain though some may find it disagreeable.

 

[MILC man]

Then when you are brainwashed from the begin to Canon and Nikon (because they were the only players in town just about 10 years ago) you are very very locked to their ecosystems, not just by a mount, but by your attitude as that is all you know and you are familiar to them. You know their service centers, you know their functions and capabilities, you keep things simple by going just with one file format etc.

Its not brain washing - the other brands cant compete in this area. Sony might have chance with the A9 if/when the big lenses arrive.

you are confused about what lenses are actually used a sporting events... 500mm and longer constitutes only a small portion of the photos that are taken.

Please, you have to have some knowledge if I should debate this.

there isn't anything to debate, it's all been covered out here already.

bob martin used the a9 with the new sony 400/2.8 for skiing in pyeongchang, with and without a teleconverter: https://www.instagram.com/bubblesontour/

no super telephoto primes on these lists of lenses for past/present winter olympics:

Loading…

www.lifehacker.com.au

Loading…

gizmodo.com

no mention of 'em here either:

"This shows the wall of Canon 1D X MK II cameras as well as Canon 200-400mm lenses, Canon 100-400mm lenses, and Canon 70-200mm lenses.

As you can see, Canon Professional Services has a plethora of small lenses as well, including the Canon 24-70 II, Canon 16-35mm, Canon 11-24mm, Canon 8-15mm fish eye lenses and others I have never seen before."

Loading…

blog.jeffcable.com

Jeff Cable stated in one of his early blog posts:

"This is the Olympics, where are the big lenses? Well...the largest lens that I am bringing with me is the Canon 100-400mm, because Canon is nice enough to bring LOTS of loaner gear for us to borrow when we need the really big glass. Even if I had bigger lenses, I would not have any way of transporting them with me. I already have two rolling bags (camera gear and clothes) and the backpack..."

Loading…

gizmodo.com

 

[PerL]

Then when you are brainwashed from the begin to Canon and Nikon (because they were the only players in town just about 10 years ago) you are very very locked to their ecosystems, not just by a mount, but by your attitude as that is all you know and you are familiar to them. You know their service centers, you know their functions and capabilities, you keep things simple by going just with one file format etc.

Its not brain washing - the other brands cant compete in this area. Sony might have chance with the A9 if/when the big lenses arrive.

you are confused about what lenses are actually used a sporting events... 500mm and longer constitutes only a small portion of the photos that are taken.

Please, you have to have some knowledge if I should debate this.

there isn't anything to debate, it's all been covered out here already.

We are talking about the World Cup in Soccer, right? At least I did in the post you answered to.
I guess you have a TV – have you watched any game? If you do, take a look at the photographers at the sidelines. Virtually all use long fast glass – 300 2.8, 400 2.8, 200-400 F4, 600 F4 or maybe some 500 F4 lenses. They use the long lenses to hunt for images out on the field. I am not "confused about what lenses actually are used at sporting events".
They also use 70-200 2.8 when the action gets closer and some wider angles, mostly mounted with the radio remotes behind the goal or used after the game is finished. The long lenses are a critical part of the arsenal because the 70-200 has so limited reach.

bob martin used the a9 with the new sony 400/2.8 for skiing in pyeongchang, with and without a teleconverter: https://www.instagram.com/bubblesontour/

no super telephoto primes on these lists of lenses for past/present winter olympics:

https://www.lifehacker.com.au/2018/...r-olympics-photographer-carries-in-their-bag/

https://gizmodo.com/all-the-gear-an-olympic-photographer-is-bringing-to-soc-1513322659

no mention of 'em here either:

"This shows the wall of Canon 1D X MK II cameras as well as Canon 200-400mm lenses, Canon 100-400mm lenses, and Canon 70-200mm lenses.

As you can see, Canon Professional Services has a plethora of small lenses as well, including the Canon 24-70 II, Canon 16-35mm, Canon 11-24mm, Canon 8-15mm fish eye lenses and others I have never seen before."

http://blog.jeffcable.com/2018/02/an-exclusive-look-behind-scenes-of.html

Jeff Cable stated in one of his early blog posts:

"This is the Olympics, where are the big lenses? Well...the largest lens that I am bringing with me is the Canon 100-400mm, because Canon is nice enough to bring LOTS of loaner gear for us to borrow when we need the really big glass. Even if I had bigger lenses, I would not have any way of transporting them with me. I already have two rolling bags (camera gear and clothes) and the backpack..."

https://gizmodo.com/all-the-gear-an-olympic-photographer-is-bringing-to-soc-1513322659

 

[Don Lacy]

Anyone who gets something for free and then sings its praises has no credibility, in my book.

So if something is free it cannot be good enough to talk about?

Nice try - of course it can.

But that is, obviously, not the problem.

The problem is that if you receive expensive products for free, you have, effectively, been paid. The question then remains, what are you being paid for? What is the entity that effectively paid you expecting back?

We all have a very good idea where the money for the equipment comes from in such situations - the marketing department. And many people don’t really associate “out of their good heart” with marketing departments.

Has anybody actually watched the video? I despair at times. He states clearly that he bought the gear himself and only afterwards Olympus has asked him to talk and pays him for those talks.

Transactions like that almost automatically becomes suspect, even if they were completely innocent.

That is a reason why serious reviewers often insist on paying for equipment, or using loaners.

He is obviously a professional user and not a professional reviewer, so does not need to stay friends with any camera company.

I actually now think that it was a mistake to post the link here as the arguments seem to be about people getting freebies when that was clearly not the case. The actual content has largely been ignored or not even viewed. I wanted comment on the contents and not on the person.

Regards..... Guy

Canon Explorers of Light pay for all thier equipment that they personally use at retail. They are compensated in other ways like being paid to give talks and having exhibitions sponsored by Canon. How much would you factor that into and opinion on Canon gear by a EOL photographer.

 

[MILC man]

Then when you are brainwashed from the begin to Canon and Nikon (because they were the only players in town just about 10 years ago) you are very very locked to their ecosystems, not just by a mount, but by your attitude as that is all you know and you are familiar to them. You know their service centers, you know their functions and capabilities, you keep things simple by going just with one file format etc.

Its not brain washing - the other brands cant compete in this area. Sony might have chance with the A9 if/when the big lenses arrive.

you are confused about what lenses are actually used a sporting events... 500mm and longer constitutes only a small portion of the photos that are taken.

Please, you have to have some knowledge if I should debate this.

there isn't anything to debate, it's all been covered out here already.

We are talking about the World Cup in Soccer, right?

no, the camera industry does not revolve around the world cup.

quit trying to trot out that same old dslr nonsense about long glass.

fyi about sony, since you don't know any better... the latest gen sony milcs, especially the a9, have made adapted lens sports shooting a reality... a9/sigma 500 for example:

http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1539137/0

a9 with canon primes, including the 800is, shooting bif... if it'll work for bif, it'll work for anything: http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1546624/0

At least I did in the post you answered to.
I guess you have a TV – have you watched any game? If you do, take a look at the photographers at the sidelines. Virtually all use long fast glass – 300 2.8, 400 2.8, 200-400 F4, 600 F4 or maybe some 500 F4 lenses. They use the long lenses to hunt for images out on the field. I am not "confused about what lenses actually are used at sporting events".
They also use 70-200 2.8 when the action gets closer and some wider angles, mostly mounted with the radio remotes behind the goal or used after the game is finished. The long lenses are a critical part of the arsenal because the 70-200 has so limited reach.

bob martin used the a9 with the new sony 400/2.8 for skiing in pyeongchang, with and without a teleconverter: https://www.instagram.com/bubblesontour/

no super telephoto primes on these lists of lenses for past/present winter olympics:

https://www.lifehacker.com.au/2018/...r-olympics-photographer-carries-in-their-bag/

https://gizmodo.com/all-the-gear-an-olympic-photographer-is-bringing-to-soc-1513322659

no mention of 'em here either:

"This shows the wall of Canon 1D X MK II cameras as well as Canon 200-400mm lenses, Canon 100-400mm lenses, and Canon 70-200mm lenses.

As you can see, Canon Professional Services has a plethora of small lenses as well, including the Canon 24-70 II, Canon 16-35mm, Canon 11-24mm, Canon 8-15mm fish eye lenses and others I have never seen before."

http://blog.jeffcable.com/2018/02/an-exclusive-look-behind-scenes-of.html

Jeff Cable stated in one of his early blog posts:

"This is the Olympics, where are the big lenses? Well...the largest lens that I am bringing with me is the Canon 100-400mm, because Canon is nice enough to bring LOTS of loaner gear for us to borrow when we need the really big glass. Even if I had bigger lenses, I would not have any way of transporting them with me. I already have two rolling bags (camera gear and clothes) and the backpack..."

https://gizmodo.com/all-the-gear-an-olympic-photographer-is-bringing-to-soc-1513322659

 

[PerL]

Then when you are brainwashed from the begin to Canon and Nikon (because they were the only players in town just about 10 years ago) you are very very locked to their ecosystems, not just by a mount, but by your attitude as that is all you know and you are familiar to them. You know their service centers, you know their functions and capabilities, you keep things simple by going just with one file format etc.

Its not brain washing - the other brands cant compete in this area. Sony might have chance with the A9 if/when the big lenses arrive.

you are confused about what lenses are actually used a sporting events... 500mm and longer constitutes only a small portion of the photos that are taken.

Please, you have to have some knowledge if I should debate this.

there isn't anything to debate, it's all been covered out here already.

We are talking about the World Cup in Soccer, right?

no, the camera industry does not revolve around the world cup.

Let me quote myself to end the discussion of what I wrote. It is better to read before writing answer.
"Meanwhile I watch the World Cup in soccer everyday on TV. Haven't seen anything yet but big Canons and Nikons used at the sidelines by the pros at this huge event."


And what is the level of this argument??

"quit trying to trot out that same old dslr nonsense about long glass."

I end here.

 

[Don Lacy]

Meanwhile I watch the World Cup in soccer everyday on TV. Haven't seen anything yet but big Canons and Nikons used at the sidelines by the pros at this huge event.
Some cameras are good at being small, some cameras are better in other matters.

Do you know how many of them is offered a free cameras and lenses from Canon and Nikon?

They are not "offered free cameras".

not true, canikon does offer free cameras and lenses at events, if the photographer is part of their pro support programs.

"Last week, I reported Canon Professional Services was gearing up to support pro sports photographers at the 2016 Summer Olympics. Now Canon has released a list of the most requested camera and lens equipment they are loaning out at the Games."

http://blog.michaeldanielho.com/2016/08/top-ten-camera-and-lens-on-loan-by.html

Then when you are brainwashed from the begin to Canon and Nikon (because they were the only players in town just about 10 years ago) you are very very locked to their ecosystems, not just by a mount, but by your attitude as that is all you know and you are familiar to them. You know their service centers, you know their functions and capabilities, you keep things simple by going just with one file format etc.

Its not brain washing - the other brands cant compete in this area. Sony might have chance with the A9 if/when the big lenses arrive.

you are confused about what lenses are actually used a sporting events... 500mm and longer constitutes only a small portion of the photos that are taken.

"As a snapshot of events near to the time of writing, Sony North America Pro Imaging Support was on-site at the 2018 Super Bowl, US Open Tennis Championship, PGA Championship, President’s Cup, Sony Hawaii Open, Dew Tour, and will be at the 2018 NCAA Final Four. It also offered support at the FIG World Artistic Gymnastics Championship in Montreal and had a service centre in Pyeongchang for the 2018 Winter Olympics.

Sony UK provided a service facility outside the venue of last summer’s World Athletic Championships in London. Sony Australia provided a service centre in Melbourne to offer support and loan gear to photographers attending the Australian Open, and also promised local support for the Commonwealth Games."

https://www.cameralabs.com/sony-imaging-pro-support-review/

Well as a CPS member I can get loaner gear and if I was a credited sports photographer working a major sporting event I could take advantage of thier onsite facilities. In order to get a platinum membership your need to own the current pro bodies and lenses and no pro would show up a major event without his own gear since there is no guarantee that the lens or camera you needed will be in stock on the day you need it. This myth that anyone could show up at the World Cup or Super Bowl and Canon will give you 30,000 worth of gear to shoot is just that a myth.

 

[MILC man]

Then when you are brainwashed from the begin to Canon and Nikon (because they were the only players in town just about 10 years ago) you are very very locked to their ecosystems, not just by a mount, but by your attitude as that is all you know and you are familiar to them. You know their service centers, you know their functions and capabilities, you keep things simple by going just with one file format etc.

Its not brain washing - the other brands cant compete in this area. Sony might have chance with the A9 if/when the big lenses arrive.

you are confused about what lenses are actually used a sporting events... 500mm and longer constitutes only a small portion of the photos that are taken.

Please, you have to have some knowledge if I should debate this.

there isn't anything to debate, it's all been covered out here already.

We are talking about the World Cup in Soccer, right?

no, the camera industry does not revolve around the world cup.

Let me quote myself to end the discussion of what I wrote. It is better to read before writing answer.

this was your exact comment: "Its not brain washing - the other brands cant compete in this area. Sony might have chance with the A9 if/when the big lenses arrive."

there isn't anything in that about the world cup.

you really should try reading what's been posted first.

i'll quote myself: "no, the camera industry does not revolve around the world cup."

I end here.

you already ended, with your first comment to this thread.

 

[fishy wishy]

Meanwhile I watch the World Cup in soccer everyday on TV. Haven't seen anything yet but big Canons and Nikons used at the sidelines by the pros at this huge event.
Some cameras are good at being small, some cameras are better in other matters.

Do you know how many of them is offered a free cameras and lenses from Canon and Nikon?

Then when you are brainwashed from the begin to Canon and Nikon (because they were the only players in town just about 10 years ago) you are very very locked to their ecosystems, not just by a mount, but by your attitude as that is all you know and you are familiar to them. You know their service centers, you know their functions and capabilities, you keep things simple by going just with one file format etc.

They are doing their JOB, not playing reviewers or testing new gear when they are in the critical job!

And then there are people who go and say that because they see only Canon and Nikon, others can't do at least the same and even more.

This was a funny display of know-nothingness dressed up, which potentially could stay on the internet forever. Nice one.

You can admit it, because there are people who already know- you don't mix with jobbing sports and agency photographers- you're making it up.

Those sports photographers are exactly the market for $5000+ telephotos, you don't need to give away lenses to people that need and will buy them anyway... They're not instagram 'influencer' poseurs on those sidelines, they are people who make their money every week by blasting away and they know what they're doing and what works.

We on the sidelines are not thick as **** puppets of a Canikon conspiracy (prats), some of us have tried the alternatives and found them seriously wanting.

You could try to enlighten us what sports events you covered, and whether you needed to deliver the photo of a special moment that all the journalists have covered, or whether you are just writing from the perspective of someone just proud to show a few photos of a sport you like without competition from anybody else.