K1 ll review is up and I think that..

Started May 7, 2018 | Discussions
robgendreau Veteran Member • Posts: 5,880
Re: K1 ll review is up and I think that..
1

Mark Ransom wrote:

Alex Sarbu wrote:

tassosDA wrote:

It doesn't look very good...

I agree.

I'm surprised that I can see a difference in detail even at ISO100 (in selected areas). They're using different lenses, but the D FA 50mm (on the K-1 II) should be sharper than the FA 77mm (on the K-1)?

The lightning (maybe that's because of the different camera to subject distance) is different, too. Not sure if it would influence the "grass" patches.

Where does it say which lens is used? I had trouble finding that information. Did they use a pre-production sample of the new F/1.4 or the old macro F/2.8?

Chris Mak noticed a similar shortcoming on the KP vs. K-3 over at PentaxForums.

It was in the EXIF, at least for the studio scene shots I downloaded.

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Alex Sarbu Forum Pro • Posts: 10,021
Re: K1 ll review is up and I think that..
2

Mark Ransom wrote:

Alex Sarbu wrote:

tassosDA wrote:

It doesn't look very good...

I agree.

I'm surprised that I can see a difference in detail even at ISO100 (in selected areas). They're using different lenses, but the D FA 50mm (on the K-1 II) should be sharper than the FA 77mm (on the K-1)?

The lightning (maybe that's because of the different camera to subject distance) is different, too. Not sure if it would influence the "grass" patches.

Where does it say which lens is used? I had trouble finding that information. Did they use a pre-production sample of the new F/1.4 or the old macro F/2.8?

There's an 'i' label right after the Download links (in the image widget), you can hover the mouse over it. But not for the K-1 II - I downloaded the RAWs and had a look at the EXIF.

Yes, it's the old f/2.8 macro.

Chris Mak noticed a similar shortcoming on the KP vs. K-3 over at PentaxForums.

Alex

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Alex Sarbu Forum Pro • Posts: 10,021
Re: K1 ll review is up and I think that..
3

Alex Sarbu wrote:

tassosDA wrote:

It doesn't look very good...

I agree.

I'm surprised that I can see a difference in detail even at ISO100 (in selected areas). They're using different lenses, but the D FA 50mm (on the K-1 II) should be sharper than the FA 77mm (on the K-1)?

The lightning (maybe that's because of the different camera to subject distance) is different, too. Not sure if it would influence the "grass" patches.

Alex

Hmm... there's some doubt that DPReview botched the test (it wouldn't be the first time). The cards appear to be slightly out of focus... naturally, the "grass" patches would have lower detail.

Alex

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Greyser Veteran Member • Posts: 6,055
Re: K1 ll review is up and I think that..
4

tassosDA wrote:

It doesn't look very good...

I supposed to upgrade ASAP. It looks like I better keep original K-1 for now.

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OpticsEngineer Veteran Member • Posts: 6,494
Re: K1 ll review is up and I think that..
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I am just wondering why DPR describes a Nikon D850 as "not a petite camera" but the smaller Pentax K1 II is called "large and obtrusive."

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Alex Sarbu Forum Pro • Posts: 10,021
Re: K1 ll review is up and I think that..
2

OpticsEngineer wrote:

I am just wondering why DPR describes a Nikon D850 as "not a petite camera" but the smaller Pentax K1 II is called "large and obtrusive."

For the same reason it's Pentax' Pixel Shift that can be replicated by stacking, and not the Sony's

By the way:

https://camerasize.com/compare/#773,718

Alex

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Ari Aikomus
Ari Aikomus Veteran Member • Posts: 9,345
...but a great opportunity to save some money!
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tassosDA wrote:

It doesn't look very good...

Yep. A kind of big disappointment. What a pity...

On the other hand, we already have excellent K-1 original. No one is forced to "upgrade"...

Ari

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Ari Aikomus
Ari Aikomus Veteran Member • Posts: 9,345
Re: K1 ll review is up and I think that..
2

Alex Sarbu wrote:

OpticsEngineer wrote:

I am just wondering why DPR describes a Nikon D850 as "not a petite camera" but the smaller Pentax K1 II is called "large and obtrusive."

Yes, indeed. That was funny part. Nonsense from DPR

Ari

For the same reason it's Pentax' Pixel Shift that can be replicated by stacking, and not the Sony's

By the way:

https://camerasize.com/compare/#773,718

Alex

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zakaria
zakaria Veteran Member • Posts: 4,588
Re: K1 ll review is up and I think that..
2

The "BUT" review!!!

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pentaxian .

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Alwina H Regular Member • Posts: 344
Re: K1 ll review is up and I think that..
5

I'm disappointed. I was convinced that my next camera would be mirrorless but I have my Pentax lenses collection and so there was still some uncertainty. Just two days ago I noticed that the new K-1 mark II was 2000 EUR almost everywhere in Belgium, cheaper than the mark I a few weeks ago. And so I started talking about it at home ... "a bargain" and all the words you have for it.

And now I'm again convinced that it will be mirrorless! They can hardly release a new lens and it will be too expensive for me ... and they do years over a camera upgrade that isn't a clear improvement and about the only thing that they are firm about is that there is *no* mirrorless camera in the make. I still have a weak spot for Pentax but it's not easy to stay faithful!

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A.

Dan Paris Contributing Member • Posts: 563
Re: K1 ll review is up and I think that..
3

Continuation of my previous post.

Here is the result of my conversion with RT at 12,800 ISO (Mk II left Mk I right)

- MK ii files have to be pushed +0.7 ev to match exposure of Mk I (confirmed at other ISO values), otherwise same settings

- the difference in sharpness is rather small compared to DP comparison tool, don't you agree?

Dan

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MightyMike Forum Pro • Posts: 39,155
Re: K1 ll review is up and I think that..
5

I see more detail and contrast in the noisier image

Dan Paris wrote:

Continuation of my previous post.

Here is the result of my conversion with RT at 12,800 ISO (Mk II left Mk I right)

- MK ii files have to be pushed +0.7 ev to match exposure of Mk I (confirmed at other ISO values), otherwise same settings

- the difference in sharpness is rather small compared to DP comparison tool, don't you agree?

Dan

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KPM2 Contributing Member • Posts: 816
So what ?
5

Hello

- JPG are different...no wonder:

Oh and the advantage of DNG files is that you can use the embedded profile...but you must select it, else you get the Adobe Standard...as DPR did use:

I can not upload the big RAW files, but when I use the DPR RAW files with my Lightroom 3.7, with the embedded profile, with a PP for to get ca. the same WB and exposure on the center 'DP gray-card'...the K1 II looks really better than the K1

a 12800 example with no NR for luminance (forget your mobile for a moment, use your PC and download the original file...only than you see what you get .

The details are there in the K1 II files !

I am convinced for to make the update of my K1 to a K1 II...ok...not by the DP way of processing the files...but do to my own one

BTW: DPR did replaced the for pictures. That are still the same photos, but different printed ! So please do not wonder that they looks so different between the K1 and K1 II

best regards KPM2

baldeagle21b Contributing Member • Posts: 987
Re: So what ?
1

Well, of course there would be no point in equalizing camera menu settings or using the same lens when comparing, two cameras, would there? At least not at DPR.

I also seem to recall that on some recent models that Ricoh ships with strong noise reduction by default across the ISO range and that best result come from customizing the NR to reduct the NR at lower ISO's and gradually increase as ISO goes up.

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BobORama
BobORama Senior Member • Posts: 2,662
Re: K1 ll review is up and I think that..
12

Dan Paris wrote:

Also, as someone else noticed, the lenses are different and surprisingly the FA77 performs better than the Macro 50 in the corners (the leaves in the upper right corner are already mushy at ISO with the Mark II). So compare only in the center area.

The focal plane it tilted.  Here are the four corners.  It is worth noting that the compare-to images, including the K-1, show uniform levels of blur and CA.   So some of what is being seen is not a camera issue.   Mushy photos run through NR make for more mushy photos.  In per usual DPR style, the fact that they chose to (a) not notice this (b) dismiss it after I and others noticed it in the usual patronizing way speaks more to the DPR review staff than the camera.   Their attempt to apply "noise reduction" to "noisy" posters.

Now their assessment may very be correct, and built in NR is evil.   But this is analogous to having Vaseline on the lens and then saying "well, that is the way Pentax shipped it to us"

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Dan Paris Contributing Member • Posts: 563
Re: K1 ll review is up and I think that..

MightyMike wrote:

I see more detail and contrast in the noisier image

Difference in contrast is probably gone by matching carefully the histograms (dark areas are darker on the Mark I picture).

About sharpness I agree with you that the Mark I looks better but (i) difference is smaller compared to DPR test and (ii) Mark II starts with almost one stop exposure disadvantage...

Dan

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BobORama
BobORama Senior Member • Posts: 2,662
Re: K1 ll review is up and I think that..
9

At least they are honest...

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Lyff Regular Member • Posts: 428
Re: So what ?
5

I did a small test with the iso 12800 raws in photoshop, between the K-1 and K-1 II, and for fun, the original K-1 with DXO Prime denoiser (at its minimal luminance setting to preserve maximum detail).

So I don't know if the K-1 II is misfocused or not, but the loss of detail is huge, even after sharpening (I used nik raw sharpener pro):

Final thoughts? Keep your K-1 and invest in a good raw denoiser.

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paulkienitz
paulkienitz Veteran Member • Posts: 5,325
Re: K1 ll review is up and I think that..
2

johnami wrote:

tassosDA wrote:

It doesn't look very good...

It doesn't make sense. Why issue a mark 2 body with a poorer image quality?

Because spec comparison numbers sell cameras, I guess, and high ISO is a number that impresses people.

That logic makes a lot more sense in the lower tiers of the market, though.

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Nicols Contributing Member • Posts: 861
Re: K1 ll review is up and I think that..
1

MightyMike wrote:

I see more detail and contrast in the noisier image

More contrast, yes, me too.

In what respects to detail, I would say, little difference to be seen. May be a little more on the mark II image.

Cheers - Klaus

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