Is the EVF on GX9 really worse than that on the GX7

Dave Lively wrote:

timo wrote:

In fact, as a glasses wearer, the key feature for me is often the eye point. It's really frustrating when you have to press your specs up hard against the camera and then make a big effort to see into the corners of the image. That's something camera makers could address quite easily I imagine.

But probably at the cost of less magnification. I know with rifle scopes field of view vs. eye relief is design tradeoff. More of one means less of the other. The same thing probably applies to viewfinders.

With EVFs the actual size of display chip adds another variable but a large display chip would add cost, burn more power and be harder to fit into a compact body.

Why can’t they use the same VF display but make it visible through a larger hole?

nevada5 wrote:

DiffractionLtd wrote:

If you shoot a lot of manual lens stuff on the fly, you'll notice and appreciate the GX7 is better. If all you do is use the finder to compose, it probably won't matter. If you can use the magnifying feature most of the time, either camera is fine.

Same specs - what did you find different when using them? In what way was the GX7 EVF better?

It would be possible if the EVF optics (the diopter and lens) are different. We already know from the specs and media reporting that the display panel is the same.

However, there is zero evidence there is any difference in the optics between the GX7, GX85, and GX9 EVF. There are some differences in eye sensor placement, and the eyecup, but I don't think any difference in optics.

The magnification (0.7x), eyepoint (17.5mm), diopter range (-4 to +3) are exactly the same between the three cameras.

DiffractionLtd wrote:

alcelc wrote:

DiffractionLtd wrote:

alcelc wrote:

yslee1 wrote:

timo wrote:

I know the specs suggest they are the same, but I have read conflicting reports about this comparison in the real world. This would be a key issue in my decision whether to upgrade to the GX9, with its superior stabilisation.

Can anyone with hands-on (or eyes-on) experience comment?

Never had them side-by-side but I do think the GX9 has a pretty nice EVF. I did try it side-by-side with the GX85 and I thought it was a little better. The EVF unit might be the same but the magnification is a little bigger and clearer.

and same resolution as well. Basically it is the same evf on GX7, GX85 and now GX9.

It might be just fine as far as they go, but Panasonic shouldn't have gone backwards here. The idea is to compete with and exceed the DSLR, and they won't do that by making EVF's worse than they could be. But who knows? The GX9 is clearly an exercise in cost-cutting over the GX8 so the costly parts were dispensed with or reduced in quality.

and yes, Pany's naming has created a lot of confusion.

Sadly Pany don't take this opportunity to make it right (change the 16:9 display unit of GX7/85 to 4:3 and the problem could be solved immediately).

G85 with all the extra like mic-port etc at a launched price very similar to GX9, can pack with a 0.74x 2.36M dot evf... It shouldn't cost Pany a lot to change the 16:9 0.7x evf of 2.74M dot to a 4:3 native one(?).

I honestly don't know what the EVF in the GX8 cost, but based on its performance, optical quality, it has to be up there. There are lenses in the optical train that can make (GX8) or break (Olympus E-M5) the EVF experience.

GX8 has a 0.77x OLED evf of 2.36M dots, a reason to have led GX8 larger than other GXs:

IMHO it is a trade off on size and larger evf (the FAS vs tilt LCD also makes GX8 larger). I prefer a smaller size body for my travelling and therefore GX8 is the only GX not on my wish list. Great to have many options for us to choose.

toronto1818 wrote:

JakeJY wrote:

nevada5 wrote:

DiffractionLtd wrote:

If you shoot a lot of manual lens stuff on the fly, you'll notice and appreciate the GX7 is better. If all you do is use the finder to compose, it probably won't matter. If you can use the magnifying feature most of the time, either camera is fine.

Same specs - what did you find different when using them? In what way was the GX7 EVF better?

It would be possible if the EVF optics (the diopter and lens) are different. We already know from the specs and media reporting that the display panel is the same.

However, there is zero evidence there is any difference in the optics between the GX7, GX85, and GX9 EVF. There are some differences in eye sensor placement, and the eyecup, but I don't think any difference in optics.

The magnification (0.7x), eyepoint (17.5mm), diopter range (-4 to +3) are exactly the same between the three cameras.

I had gx7 and gx85 briefly. Gx7 was ok viewfinder but not great. Gx85 was unusable for me. I wear glasses and it was very difficult to see clearly. Have not tried gx9 yet.

The gx8 vf is excellent. The G9 even better... best in its class.

That sort of feedback is the reason I started this thread. There is a notable lack of consistency between the various accounts of user experience.

toronto1818 wrote:

JakeJY wrote:

nevada5 wrote:

DiffractionLtd wrote:

If you shoot a lot of manual lens stuff on the fly, you'll notice and appreciate the GX7 is better. If all you do is use the finder to compose, it probably won't matter. If you can use the magnifying feature most of the time, either camera is fine.

Same specs - what did you find different when using them? In what way was the GX7 EVF better?

It would be possible if the EVF optics (the diopter and lens) are different. We already know from the specs and media reporting that the display panel is the same.

However, there is zero evidence there is any difference in the optics between the GX7, GX85, and GX9 EVF. There are some differences in eye sensor placement, and the eyecup, but I don't think any difference in optics.

The magnification (0.7x), eyepoint (17.5mm), diopter range (-4 to +3) are exactly the same between the three cameras.

I had gx7 and gx85 briefly. Gx7 was ok viewfinder but not great. Gx85 was unusable for me. I wear glasses and it was very difficult to see clearly. Have not tried gx9 yet.

The gx8 vf is excellent. The G9 even better... best in its class.

I don't wear glasses, but I notice on my GX85 that my eye has to hover (not touch) the EVF to get everything sharp. So slight variations in the eyecup (which changes the distance to the lens) will make a difference, even if the lens is the same. The GX85 is noted to be the only camera among the three to not have an optional eyecup. The GX7 also as the eye sensor in a different location.

Unfortunately I don't have a GX7 to compare. Upthread someone who owned both say they perform essentially the same (when I did research before buying the GX85, I read the same). Would love there to be some kind of objective way/test to compare EVFs (and with variables fixed), as it seems forum accounts are mixed depending on who you ask.

Dave Lively wrote:

toronto1818 wrote:

I had gx7 and gx85 briefly. Gx7 was ok viewfinder but not great. Gx85 was unusable for me. I wear glasses and it was very difficult to see clearly. Have not tried gx9 yet.

The gx8 vf is excellent. The G9 even better... best in its class.

I used a GX7 for a few years and replaced it with a GX85 when it got dust between the sensor and AA filter on my GX7.

I had the two side by side for a while and could not tell much difference between the two EVFs. They were both usable but smaller and less clear than other EVFs I have seen, The lack of clarity seemed due to the optics in the EVF and since the GX85 does not have the tilt EVF of the GX7 I suspect the optics are different between the two.

I have some astigmatism but don't wear glasses indoors. Even when outside I take off my bifocals or prescription sunglasses before using the EVF to avoid the problems others have mentioned. Since the diopter does not correct astigmatism the lack of clarity could be due to my refusal to wear glasses. As could my not seeing any real difference between the GX7 and GX 85 EVFs.

Any reason not to wear your prescribed glasses?

I wore glasses for my myopia since teenage some >45 years ago, changed to bifocal glasses and quickly, progressive spectacles some >15 years ago. I also have quite serious astigmatism which has to be corrected by my glasses or otherwise I will have a very blurry vision on everything .

Although I can see (recognize the shape and color etc) without my glasses a few feet away (especially when getting older it seems that my presbyopia can compensate part of my myopia), never a sharp image. Back in the film slr day, despite of wearing my prescribed glasses, I needed the help of a 2x magnifier eyecup to the ovf for MF. Invention of AF gave me a easier life. Now I have the live view. The ability to fine tune my setting demanding a very clear view on the evf on top of AF. A reason I must have the best view all the time and so I am not afford to shoot without my glasses.

I set the diopter of evf for my mid range eyesight. As said here earlier, I found that the hidden diopter slider of GX7 is better protected then the diopter wheel located at the side of the evf of GX85. In last 1 year I had to re-adjust the diopter of GX85 a few times. Would it be a reason making some users said the evf of GX7 and GX85 be different?

According to shooting with GX7 and GX85 side by side in last 1+ year, I concur with you that basically their evf are the same.

Dave Lively wrote:

alcelc wrote:

Any reason not to wear your prescribed glasses?

I never needed glasses until I was 50 and my eyes are still good enough that glasses are an option, not a requirement. Unless I am driving at night or looking at something up close. I could probably get by without prescription sunglasses but if I am going to be wearing sunglasses anyways they might as well correct my astigmatism and myopia.

I see. Might your astigmatism affect the clarity of the evf (=a bright light source) if you look at it with a naked eye?

Usually presbyopia would be developed with age instead of myopia. I can, if use evf only, adjust the diopter to correct for my eyesight, but sadly only to one side: either my far seeing or close reading. Therefore I change to progressive glasses, set the evf for my mid range eyesight, when look at the LCD, can use the close reading range (lower part of my glasses) and when hold my head up, use the far sight region (the upper part of my glasses). These glasses are very convenience, but not only cost a lot more, also need to change quite frequently (every 1~2 years) because while myopia improves slowly, presbyopia develops fast...

IMHO sunglasses never work with evf well. For the evf, particularly the TFT type of GX7/85/9, polarized sunglasses is still a big no. I had a lot of prescribed sunglasses in my life, some of them are still highly usable (not for reading). But I lock them up after moving onto mirrorless.

Live View based shooting of mirrorless requires a precise understanding on the simulated image for an optimal setting, from exposure condition, WB, saturation and to certain degree, contrast (histogram is more useful) on top of the only focusing and composition of ovf. Most of my deeper color sunglasses affect my judgement (reduce the brightness, color shifting etc). I am currently using a pair of 99.9% UV cut Hoya clear glasses, and in case of very bright sunlight, shall use an UV400 rated pale light color clip-on sunglasses to make my eye slightly more comfortable.

This is an old thread but I thought I'd chime in with my take, since the original question - about the GX9's viewfinder compared with that of other, previous GX's - is and was one which concerned me as well.

My short answer: no, it's not worse.  In fact, it seems to me to be not only just as good - but possibly better.

Longer answer: I used a GX7 as my main camera for several years, liked it immensely, and thought the EVF was quite adequate.  Then, a few years ago, I sold it and 'upgraded' to a GX8 - whose EVF was, in a word, superb - possibly the best electronic viewfinder I've ever used on any digital camera. The GX8's viewfinder was significantly better than the GX7's in just about every way.

Now, after hemming and hawing about getting a GX9 - mainly because I didn't want to 'sacrifice' or 'lose' the GX8's enormous EVF, and had heard and read, from a number of photographers, that the GX9's EVF was in fact worse than the GX7's - I took a deep breath and made the plunge, buying a lightly used GX9.  And... guess what?

It's EVF isn't quite as good as that of the (significantly larger) GX8 - but it is at least equal to - and I think (a subjective opinion, admittedly) probably better than - that of my old GX7. It's clear, bright (almost too bright) and eminently viewable, both with and without glasses.  It also tilts like the GX8's EVF, a small but really handy bonus.  I've only been using it for a few days now, but there are zero problems - and, in fact, it's actually a good enough EVF to be enjoyable to use.

Obviously we all have different standards and different opinions.  But for me, the GX9's EVF is surprisingly usable - and, all things considered, quite good