1DXII Out~!! A7RIII is IN!

Started Apr 20, 2018 | Discussions
Thoughts R Us
Thoughts R Us Senior Member • Posts: 2,910
Sony Fans Must Shoot w/o Lens
14

mermaidkiller wrote:

Don't forget that the A7iii is a lightweight and small body, barely larger than a G7X or RX100. That is one of the advantages of mirrorless.

This is one fallacy that has been exposed on this forum and others over and over again by now.  One cannot just consider the camera body, but also the size/weight of the lenses.

It is physics that tells us that the size of the lens is dictated by the size of the sensor it has to cover.  Thus FF lenses for a Sony mirrorless are really not smaller than FF lenses for a Canon FF dslr, and in some cases may be a bit larger to compensate for the shorter flange distance of the Sony body.

And unless one can violate the laws of physics this is not going to change.  Now before anyone cites the small size of Leica lenses for their FF M series, I will point out that the reason they are so small is due to lack of AF.  Ironically Leica came out with their FF SL mirrorless with AF, and guess what: the lenses are just as large as the lenses for Canon and other FF dslr's.  So don't even go there.

Once one takes into account lens size/weight, then most of any weight advantage disappears.  In fact, with longer lenses, I and many others appreciate the better balance that the larger Canon dslr's provide.

So when someone cites how much smaller that Sony mirrorless is, just smile and know it's just one more bogus argument of the Sony trap.

sportyaccordy Forum Pro • Posts: 19,733
Re: 1DXII Out~!! A7RIII is IN!
2

bullet1 wrote:

I am considering the A7III but I am not sure it would be that much better than my 6D for my travel photos. Perhaps you could enlighten us.

Better base IQ, Eye-AF and IBIS (with FE or EF glass).... for all aspects of travel photography I think the A7III would show improvements. Only bugaboo really is weight and handling with heavy lenses... FE 24-240 is not bad; that along with maybe the 28/2 and either 50/1.8 or 55/1.8 ZA could work.

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J A C S
J A C S Forum Pro • Posts: 20,302
Re: 1DXII Out~!! A7RIII is IN!

sportyaccordy wrote:

bullet1 wrote:

I am considering the A7III but I am not sure it would be that much better than my 6D for my travel photos. Perhaps you could enlighten us.

Better base IQ, Eye-AF and IBIS (with FE or EF glass)....

It looks like the Eye-AF of the A7III is not working well, and not just the Eye-AF. The 6D might have better Eye-AF...

Tristimulus Veteran Member • Posts: 9,614
Re: 1DXII Out~!! A7RIII is IN!

MarshallG wrote:

Trollmannx wrote:

My Canon 7DII is lying idle - feel the my super compact and light weight Sony A6300 is a much better grab and go tool - at least in my hands. And my main cameras are still a couple of slow five years old Sony A7 cameras which have seen a lot of places in all kinds of weather and temperatures in the -30 to +30 C range.

Use what works for you. But if all photographers and all of photography was the same, there would only be one camera and one lens and we’d all be happy.

I don’t know if the Sony can shoot professional sports as well as a 7D Mark II (although this might have been my 5D):

And the reviewer wasn’t too impressed with its low light ability, so maybe it can’t do stuff like this:

And it doesn’t have a control to set the AF points, so it would have focused on the guitar neck instead of good old Alex.

But, look, it’s not a contest, ok? Really. My current Canon 5D4 isn’t the best street camera; it’s overkill. And it doesn’t float your boat, and you aren’t wrong about that!

If an enthusiastic beginner asked me what camera to buy, I’d ask what types of photography interested him or her, and then I’d recommend an appropriate camera which has good controls. To me, every camera is an iPhone except for the controls. You see that guitarist above? He was playing in a bar. A dozen people shot him that night, and those photos showed a guy playing a guitar in a bar. And there were mic stands, and music stands, and cables and spotlights and signs and people all over. That is not what I want to do with photography. I want to create a photograph with its own reality, which captures the true essence of my subject. Use the tool which works for you and lets you craft the results you want.

If this was the Painting Forum, I don’t think the oil painters would be telling the watercolor artists that they’re wrong.

Great images!

Guess it is all about finding the tool for the job at hand. In my case it is simple - Sony offer something that I wish Canon would offer - so it is...

My Canon cameras are now used for astrophotography (low dark current and then some, like independent backup software) - but they see no sunshine! 

Actually I am into photography, not so much brands...

(unknown member) Senior Member • Posts: 1,388
Re: Keep it dry!
3

Thoughts R Us wrote:

Daniel Lee Taylor wrote:

https://www.dpreview.com/news/1977878269/water-torture-test-compares-canon-nikon-sony-and-olympus-weather-sealing

Talk about a downgrade in reliability. To go from the 1DX II, which is an absolute tank, used by pro's all across the world in the harshest of conditions, to a camera that cannot even hold up under a backyard water hose...

The Sony cameras are designed to leak a small amount of water into the camera ?

The Sony camera is designed to be fragile and break under defined conditions ?

After working on consumer electronic products for over 25 years I believe Sony designs flaws into their products.

PJC Imagery Regular Member • Posts: 405
Re: 1DXII Out~!! A7RIII is IN!

mermaidkiller wrote:

Don't forget that the A7iii is a lightweight and small body, barely larger than a G7X or RX100. That is one of the advantages of mirrorless.

Canon can't avoid releasing an EOS 1M or 5M (or whatever is called), otherwise Nikon will. Both cannot ignore Sony.

Maybe before 2020 when Canon is sponsor of the Tokyo Olympics ?

+1!

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Thoughts R Us
Thoughts R Us Senior Member • Posts: 2,910
Sony Sacrifices Quality for Features
1

stevedavidsonphotography wrote:

Thoughts R Us wrote:

Daniel Lee Taylor wrote:

https://www.dpreview.com/news/1977878269/water-torture-test-compares-canon-nikon-sony-and-olympus-weather-sealing

Talk about a downgrade in reliability. To go from the 1DX II, which is an absolute tank, used by pro's all across the world in the harshest of conditions, to a camera that cannot even hold up under a backyard water hose...

The Sony cameras are designed to leak a small amount of water into the camera ?

The Sony camera is designed to be fragile and break under defined conditions ?

After working on consumer electronic products for over 25 years I believe Sony designs flaws into their products.

I believe one problem is that Sony chooses to cram their products with features and sacrifices quality to keep the cost down.

The A7iii is praised by many for all if its features at it price: but there is no such thing as a free lunch and something has to give.

I believe for Sony that sacrifice may be fundamental quality and durability.

(unknown member) Senior Member • Posts: 1,388
Re: Sony Sacrifices Quality for Features
1

Thoughts R Us wrote:

stevedavidsonphotography wrote:

Thoughts R Us wrote:

Daniel Lee Taylor wrote:

https://www.dpreview.com/news/1977878269/water-torture-test-compares-canon-nikon-sony-and-olympus-weather-sealing

Talk about a downgrade in reliability. To go from the 1DX II, which is an absolute tank, used by pro's all across the world in the harshest of conditions, to a camera that cannot even hold up under a backyard water hose...

The Sony cameras are designed to leak a small amount of water into the camera ?

The Sony camera is designed to be fragile and break under defined conditions ?

After working on consumer electronic products for over 25 years I believe Sony designs flaws into their products.

I believe one problem is that Sony chooses to cram their products with features and sacrifices quality to keep the cost down.

The A7iii is praised by many for all if its features at it price: but there is no such thing as a free lunch and something has to give.

I believe for Sony that sacrifice may be fundamental quality and durability.

The Sony camera's fundamental quality and durability is just as well designed as the sensor in them.

Sony knows what they are doing.

mjc1 Regular Member • Posts: 497
Re: 1DXII Out~!! A7RIII is IN!
5

So your professional, $5500, two year old, magnesium alloy, weather sealed, 3.5lb body only camera that can survive a nuclear holocaust and allow you to physically beat to death any mugger AND keep shooting doesn't fit your needs for a travel camera?.....Huh, who would have thunk it?  Canon obviously dropped the ball on this model.

Rick Knepper
Rick Knepper Forum Pro • Posts: 17,870
Canon Rumors says...

http://www.canonrumors.com/two-prosumer-mirrorless-camera-bodies-in-development-cr2/

You may have jumped the gun.

Ryanide wrote:

Thanks. I thought I could forgo all my gear and move to a single Sony RX10IV with a 1" sensor and 24mm-600mm eqiv lens, but I still want to have the option for a high quality capture, especially when traveling half way around the world.

I think the A7RIII is going to be a nice travel combo with the RX10IV.

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Tog-meister Regular Member • Posts: 403
Re: 1DXII Out~!! A7RIII is IN!

mjc1 wrote:

So your professional, $5500, two year old, magnesium alloy, weather sealed, 3.5lb body only camera that can survive a nuclear holocaust and allow you to physically beat to death any mugger AND keep shooting doesn't fit your needs for a travel camera?.....Huh, who would have thunk it? Canon obviously dropped the ball on this model.

It fits the need just fine. It's just that now with 6 months of new development, we want that same burly body that can beat bar drunks into the dirt ALONG with IBIS, EVF, EYE AF and all the other goodies. Just how the times are bub. And Canon better listen too, otherwise it's time for that Kodak moment (and not in a good way).

David Pavlich
David Pavlich Veteran Member • Posts: 4,963
Re: 1DXII Out~!! A7RIII is IN!

Tog-meister wrote:

mjc1 wrote:

So your professional, $5500, two year old, magnesium alloy, weather sealed, 3.5lb body only camera that can survive a nuclear holocaust and allow you to physically beat to death any mugger AND keep shooting doesn't fit your needs for a travel camera?.....Huh, who would have thunk it? Canon obviously dropped the ball on this model.

It fits the need just fine. It's just that now with 6 months of new development, we want that same burly body that can beat bar drunks into the dirt ALONG with IBIS, EVF, EYE AF and all the other goodies. Just how the times are bub. And Canon better listen too, otherwise it's time for that Kodak moment (and not in a good way).

So you buy a camera that if it were to take on a stack of Kleenex it would lose?  And then you'd have to get it serviced?  Okay.....

David

"The world doesn't need you...." Gene Simmons
Viewbug: https://www.viewbug.com/member/David_Pavlich

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mjc1 Regular Member • Posts: 497
Re: 1DXII Out~!! A7RIII is IN!
1

I could be completely wrong, Lord knows I am often, but I would bet Canon doesn't make its primary camera development decision based on the % of buyers/owners who willingly sell off at huge losses $5k, $10k, $15k worth of equipment after a year or two cause another company's camera is shinier.  I bet all camera companies are very fond of those with the means and the inclination to jump back and forth between companies, spending many thousands of dollars every time a product life cycle of one company is newer than the product cycle of another company, but I can't believe it is a viable long term market strategy to target them exclusively.  Not saying Canon's cameras don't need to stay competitive, I just roll my eyes at people who demand their camera when they want it and trash $10k worth of top end, state of the art equipment cause for some unknown reason it no longer allows them to reach their photographic creative peak, somehow it got worse over time.  In regards to the OP, if he doesn't wish to carry 15-20lbs of gear all the time, one has to ask why 2 years ago (or less) he purchased the heaviest full-frame 35mm format camera gear available to man?  If the A7RIII fits his needs better, I don't see any other conclusion other then his rational for originally purchasing the 1DXII was flawed (unless he has completely changed what and how he shoots, which is not indicated in any way in the original posting).  If that is the case, why be angry at Canon, life it too short, admit the mistake, and if you can afford it, get what makes you happy.  Sony will thank you, Canon will thank you for the original purchase and again when there is a not insignificant likelihood of the OP coming back to Canon next life cycle, the person picking up your used gear at a great discount thanks you, the gov't thanks you for the sales tax....win win win.

dgumshu
dgumshu Veteran Member • Posts: 4,621
Re: 1DXII Out~!! A7RIII is IN!

J A C S wrote:

sportyaccordy wrote:

bullet1 wrote:

I am considering the A7III but I am not sure it would be that much better than my 6D for my travel photos. Perhaps you could enlighten us.

Better base IQ, Eye-AF and IBIS (with FE or EF glass)....

It looks like the Eye-AF of the A7III is not working well, and not just the Eye-AF. The 6D might have better Eye-AF...

I read somewhere that it only works in good light.  Otherwise, it focuses on the nose.

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PJC Imagery Regular Member • Posts: 405
Re: 1DXII Out~!! A7RIII is IN!
2

I know this thread has ruffled some feathers, not sure exactly why people get so defensive over gear.

Anyway, I can relate to the OP in regards to Canon.  I'm currently a little PO'd with Canon as I'm looking for a new FF.  I currently shoot professionally with the 6D and would like to get another FF and use my 6D as a backup.

My issue is I'm accustom to Canon being the front runner in the industry.  Way back when I had my ae-1, Canon was leading, then my T-90 Canon was leading, then eos elan 7, then my 20D, then my 40D, then my 7D & 6D.  I always, up until now felt like Canon was the bomb and they always had a camera in my price range that I felt really good about buying.  All those Canon cameras I had, were in my humble opinion leading the industry at their price point.  It's just not so right now.

I look at the 6D2 but I just don't consider it an upgrade.  Oh, you get a flip out touch screen with the 6D2, that's the upgrade.  Really, I expect more from Canon.

Right now, for me, the last 5 years Canon lagging further and further behind both Nikon and Sony.  I just don't see Canon in the same light, they used to be the bomb.  Now I look at them as the dud.

My point in writhing this, is in hopes that in some way people stop defending Canon and Canon gets back to being Canon!  Peace!

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J A C S
J A C S Forum Pro • Posts: 20,302
Re: 1DXII Out~!! A7RIII is IN!

dgumshu wrote:

J A C S wrote:

sportyaccordy wrote:

bullet1 wrote:

I am considering the A7III but I am not sure it would be that much better than my 6D for my travel photos. Perhaps you could enlighten us.

Better base IQ, Eye-AF and IBIS (with FE or EF glass)....

It looks like the Eye-AF of the A7III is not working well, and not just the Eye-AF. The 6D might have better Eye-AF...

I read somewhere that it only works in good light. Otherwise, it focuses on the nose.

As I said, "it might". My 5D4 focuses on the eye. My old 5D2 was focusing on the eye as well if I remember well but I never stressed it.

dgumshu
dgumshu Veteran Member • Posts: 4,621
Re: system switchers

Innocentius wrote:

tko wrote:

And quite frankly, I am shocked how some people just throw away their experience learning a camera brand as if that doesn't matter.

That's because most of these system switchers haven't come close to mastering their systems. Heck, most of them don't even post any photos. The gear is more important than the craft.

And we should cherish these masters of photography! They change cameras quicker than I change my underwear. And you know you can see that they are masters of light because they have the newest gear.

May they live long, prosper and spent money.

Meanwhile.. I am having tons of fun with my seventies Profoto flashset, my 1Ds mk III and a 85mm F1.8

And yes... this gear added up it costs less than 20% of the Sony body alone....

Well said.  Good points and nice shot.

Ansel Adams too worked wonders with his gear... I don't think he had EVF, IBIS, Eye focus, etc.

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mjc1 Regular Member • Posts: 497
Re: 1DXII Out~!! A7RIII is IN!

Actually PJC, I completely agree with you on most things.  I think Canon needs to take some steps, I have used their cameras for 25 years, and enjoyed those years.  I have no problem with people who have been shooting Canon for a long time discussing the current state of Canon and the path forward.  I was just being a bit tongue in check commenting that I don't think the OP may fall into that category of a very long time Canon user who has (in his opinion) stuck with a company for decades finally admitting maybe it it time to pull the plug (I have made that same decision, so I get it).  I was more pointing out that buying the most expensive, heaviest professional camera Canon offers 1-2 years ago and being unhappy to the point of selling many thousands dollars of equipment cause you are angry at the weight of the camera and pace of development over the past few months from Canon seems like a problem that 90%+ of canon shooters can't have due to finances or don't have cause they understand their photographic needs short and long term.  This is all of course based upon strictly what the OP posted, so could be many other things unknown.  Especially with strong rumors that Canon IS going to potentially release a camera that may very well tick the boxes that the OP wants check in the not too distant future.  Of course I come from the belief that (with the exception of people making a living from photography) 90% of people's cameras are probably better then the people using them (myself included in that 90%) and that spending thousands of dollars to replace a current flagship $5500 camera is most likely not going to result in much in the way of better pictures.   But, as I stated, everyone wins in this scenario.

dgumshu
dgumshu Veteran Member • Posts: 4,621
Re: 1DXII Out~!! A7RIII is IN!

J A C S wrote:

dgumshu wrote:

J A C S wrote:

sportyaccordy wrote:

bullet1 wrote:

I am considering the A7III but I am not sure it would be that much better than my 6D for my travel photos. Perhaps you could enlighten us.

Better base IQ, Eye-AF and IBIS (with FE or EF glass)....

It looks like the Eye-AF of the A7III is not working well, and not just the Eye-AF. The 6D might have better Eye-AF...

I read somewhere that it only works in good light. Otherwise, it focuses on the nose.

As I said, "it might". My 5D4 focuses on the eye. My old 5D2 was focusing on the eye as well if I remember well but I never stressed it.

I was referring to the Sony

youknow, that little camera with the strip and pixel blinking thing that eats stars and leaks water... ok, just joking

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dgumshu
dgumshu Veteran Member • Posts: 4,621
Re: 1DXII Out~!! A7RIII is IN!
1

PJC Imagery wrote:

I know this thread has ruffled some feathers, not sure exactly why people get so defensive over gear.

Anyway, I can relate to the OP in regards to Canon. I'm currently a little PO'd with Canon as I'm looking for a new FF. I currently shoot professionally with the 6D and would like to get another FF and use my 6D as a backup.

My issue is I'm accustom to Canon being the front runner in the industry. Way back when I had my ae-1, Canon was leading, then my T-90 Canon was leading, then eos elan 7, then my 20D, then my 40D, then my 7D & 6D. I always, up until now felt like Canon was the bomb and they always had a camera in my price range that I felt really good about buying. All those Canon cameras I had, were in my humble opinion leading the industry at their price point. It's just not so right now.

I look at the 6D2 but I just don't consider it an upgrade. Oh, you get a flip out touch screen with the 6D2, that's the upgrade. Really, I expect more from Canon.

Right now, for me, the last 5 years Canon lagging further and further behind both Nikon and Sony. I just don't see Canon in the same light, they used to be the bomb. Now I look at them as the dud.

if Canon gear wasn't capable delivering great images, I'd be more inclined to agree.  However, I've been pretty satisfied.

My point in writhing this, is in hopes that in some way people stop defending Canon and Canon gets back to being Canon! Peace!

According to recent news, Canon is planing to release FF mirrorless due to demand and competition.   However, even if they do, I don't see myself jumping into it just because it's mirrorless.

I already have a mirrorless, so the thrill is gone.  I still prefer my Canon DSLRs for a variety of reasons, but I can understand why people get excited about new features.   For me, I'll wait until they develop something more advanced than an EVF.

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