Major issue with eye autofocus on A7iii?

Started Apr 12, 2018 | Discussions
tommiejeep
tommiejeep Veteran Member • Posts: 6,730
Re: Major issue with eye autofocus on A7iii?

Kamit,

I am also concerned. I just sold my a7ii and several lenses for pretty much decided on an a7iii or a7riii or even both (if I sell the a7rii) .

Back when, I pre-ordered the Nikon D800 then the posts about AF problems it the net. At the time the Nikon fanboys kept shouting "user error". My order was still in when Nikon stopped the supply so I cancelled my order and never bought one.

I do not use Eye AF but would be totally upset if Flex Spot was not accurate. I would like to see this nailed down. If it is one bad batch I would like to know. If a design problem I would like to know. Some of the other possible problems really do not affect what and how I shoot but inaccurate AF is a no-no for a MILC.

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Anticipate the Light and wing it when you get it wrong but always have fun
Tom
http://images.nikonians.org/galleries/showgallery.php/cat/500/ppuser/165169

OP ATLshooter Regular Member • Posts: 385
Re: Major issue with eye autofocus on A7iii?

tommiejeep wrote:

Kamit,

I am also concerned. I just sold my a7ii and several lenses for pretty much decided on an a7iii or a7riii or even both (if I sell the a7rii) .

Back when, I pre-ordered the Nikon D800 then the posts about AF problems it the net. At the time the Nikon fanboys kept shouting "user error". My order was still in when Nikon stopped the supply so I cancelled my order and never bought one.

I do not use Eye AF but would be totally upset if Flex Spot was not accurate. I would like to see this nailed down. If it is one bad batch I would like to know. If a design problem I would like to know. Some of the other possible problems really do not affect what and how I shoot but inaccurate AF is a no-no for a MILC.

This will possibly put you at ease, but when using af-s and a flexible spot, I get shots in focus almost every time.

Its when using af-c that it consistently front focuses. Either by using eye af or flex spot. The result is basically the same. And if the subject is moving, it’s basically useless.

 ATLshooter's gear list:ATLshooter's gear list
Sony a7R III Sony FE 55mm F1.8 Zeiss Batis 85mm F1.8
SunsetBk Regular Member • Posts: 442
Re: Major issue with eye autofocus on A7iii?
1

It sounds like a problem with your specific camera.  My serial # starts with 33.  There are no issues using eye af in continuous mode with the 55mm.

 SunsetBk's gear list:SunsetBk's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DMC-GF7 Sony a7 III Voigtlander 15mm F4.5 Super Wide Heliar Tamron SP 70-200mm F/2.8 Di VC USD Sony FE 55mm F1.8 +8 more
tommiejeep
tommiejeep Veteran Member • Posts: 6,730
Re: Major issue with eye autofocus on A7iii?

ATLshooter wrote:

tommiejeep wrote:

Kamit,

I am also concerned. I just sold my a7ii and several lenses for pretty much decided on an a7iii or a7riii or even both (if I sell the a7rii) .

Back when, I pre-ordered the Nikon D800 then the posts about AF problems it the net. At the time the Nikon fanboys kept shouting "user error". My order was still in when Nikon stopped the supply so I cancelled my order and never bought one.

I do not use Eye AF but would be totally upset if Flex Spot was not accurate. I would like to see this nailed down. If it is one bad batch I would like to know. If a design problem I would like to know. Some of the other possible problems really do not affect what and how I shoot but inaccurate AF is a no-no for a MILC.

This will possibly put you at ease, but when using af-s and a flexible spot, I get shots in focus almost every time.

Its when using af-c that it consistently front focuses. Either by using eye af or flex spot. The result is basically the same. And if the subject is moving, it’s basically useless.

So not usable for slow action Event work, not to mention faster Events.  Bummer, even more important to pin this down.

Thanks

-- hide signature --

Anticipate the Light and wing it when you get it wrong but always have fun
Tom
http://images.nikonians.org/galleries/showgallery.php/cat/500/ppuser/165169

tommiejeep
tommiejeep Veteran Member • Posts: 6,730
Re: Major issue with eye autofocus on A7iii?

Thanks, since the a7iii has just become available here there is no local feedback as of yet.

-- hide signature --

Anticipate the Light and wing it when you get it wrong but always have fun
Tom
http://images.nikonians.org/galleries/showgallery.php/cat/500/ppuser/165169

OP ATLshooter Regular Member • Posts: 385
Re: Major issue with eye autofocus on A7iii?

SunsetBk wrote:

It sounds like a problem with your specific camera. My serial # starts with 33. There are no issues using eye af in continuous mode with the 55mm.

How close are you to the subject?

Could you possible run a test? Get the subject close enough that their face fills the frame. Have them directly face on with you so that their face is parallel with the sensor.

Now use eye af in af-c and take some pics. Your camera grabs their eye perfectly every time? Zoom in to see the focus if you can. Or even better post pics. Please report back, I’m very curious to see if your camera works even in those conditions.

 ATLshooter's gear list:ATLshooter's gear list
Sony a7R III Sony FE 55mm F1.8 Zeiss Batis 85mm F1.8
RicksAstro
RicksAstro Veteran Member • Posts: 3,858
Re: Major issue with eye autofocus on A7iii?
2

ATLshooter wrote:

SunsetBk wrote:

It sounds like a problem with your specific camera. My serial # starts with 33. There are no issues using eye af in continuous mode with the 55mm.

How close are you to the subject?

Could you possible run a test? Get the subject close enough that their face fills the frame. Have them directly face on with you so that their face is parallel with the sensor.

Now use eye af in af-c and take some pics. Your camera grabs their eye perfectly every time? Zoom in to see the focus if you can. Or even better post pics. Please report back, I’m very curious to see if your camera works even in those conditions.

I see most of your shots are at f2 rather than wide open.   Could it be focusing at 1.8 and have a focus shift (due to lens design) when it stops down.    Or is it also happening shooting wide open?

I do agree that many of your shot's I've seen should be in focus.   You can also test on a face on an LCD computer screen to be repeatable to debug the issue.

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SunsetBk Regular Member • Posts: 442
Re: Major issue with eye autofocus on A7iii?
1

ATLshooter wrote:

SunsetBk wrote:

It sounds like a problem with your specific camera. My serial # starts with 33. There are no issues using eye af in continuous mode with the 55mm.

How close are you to the subject?

Could you possible run a test? Get the subject close enough that their face fills the frame. Have them directly face on with you so that their face is parallel with the sensor.

Now use eye af in af-c and take some pics. Your camera grabs their eye perfectly every time? Zoom in to see the focus if you can. Or even better post pics. Please report back, I’m very curious to see if your camera works even in those conditions.

I apologize but I don’t post people photos, ever.  I tried with the 55, 85, and even the Tamron 70-200 wide open and all shots nailed the eye.  In fact the eye tracking was able to track my kid running at me full speed.

 SunsetBk's gear list:SunsetBk's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DMC-GF7 Sony a7 III Voigtlander 15mm F4.5 Super Wide Heliar Tamron SP 70-200mm F/2.8 Di VC USD Sony FE 55mm F1.8 +8 more
Foivos Junior Member • Posts: 25
Re: Major issue with eye autofocus on A7iii?
2

Just for information Fstoppers mentioned something similar with not accurate eye focus:

you can see it underneath the image on Autofocus paragraph

https://fstoppers.com/originals/hands-sony-a7-iii-new-normal-227593

 Foivos's gear list:Foivos's gear list
Nikon D2X Nikon D700 Nikon D800E Sony a7 III Nikon AF-S Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8G ED VR +7 more
A London Tone New Member • Posts: 21
Re: Major issue with eye autofocus on A7iii?

Foivos wrote:

Just for information Fstoppers mentioned something similar with not accurate eye focus:

you can see it underneath the image on Autofocus paragraph

https://fstoppers.com/originals/hands-sony-a7-iii-new-normal-227593

Interesting. Sounds very familiar!

OP ATLshooter Regular Member • Posts: 385
Re: Major issue with eye autofocus on A7iii?

RicksAstro wrote:

ATLshooter wrote:

SunsetBk wrote:

It sounds like a problem with your specific camera. My serial # starts with 33. There are no issues using eye af in continuous mode with the 55mm.

How close are you to the subject?

Could you possible run a test? Get the subject close enough that their face fills the frame. Have them directly face on with you so that their face is parallel with the sensor.

Now use eye af in af-c and take some pics. Your camera grabs their eye perfectly every time? Zoom in to see the focus if you can. Or even better post pics. Please report back, I’m very curious to see if your camera works even in those conditions.

I see most of your shots are at f2 rather than wide open. Could it be focusing at 1.8 and have a focus shift (due to lens design) when it stops down. Or is it also happening shooting wide open?

I do agree that many of your shot's I've seen should be in focus. You can also test on a face on an LCD computer screen to be repeatable to debug the issue.

I thought about focus shift also and I did try wide open. Unfortunately I got the same results.

That's an interesting idea with the face on a screen. I'll try that.

 ATLshooter's gear list:ATLshooter's gear list
Sony a7R III Sony FE 55mm F1.8 Zeiss Batis 85mm F1.8
OP ATLshooter Regular Member • Posts: 385
Re: Major issue with eye autofocus on A7iii?

A London Tone wrote:

Foivos wrote:

Just for information Fstoppers mentioned something similar with not accurate eye focus:

you can see it underneath the image on Autofocus paragraph

https://fstoppers.com/originals/hands-sony-a7-iii-new-normal-227593

Interesting. Sounds very familiar!

Sounds exactly like what a few of us are reporting now.

The big question is, will sony fix this? I'm starting to feel more confident that it's a firmware issue and not hardware.

 ATLshooter's gear list:ATLshooter's gear list
Sony a7R III Sony FE 55mm F1.8 Zeiss Batis 85mm F1.8
The Lotus Eater
The Lotus Eater Regular Member • Posts: 415
Re: Major issue with eye autofocus on A7iii?

ATLshooter wrote:

A London Tone wrote:

Foivos wrote:

Just for information Fstoppers mentioned something similar with not accurate eye focus:

you can see it underneath the image on Autofocus paragraph

https://fstoppers.com/originals/hands-sony-a7-iii-new-normal-227593

Interesting. Sounds very familiar!

Sounds exactly like what a few of us are reporting now.

The big question is, will sony fix this? I'm starting to feel more confident that it's a firmware issue and not hardware.

I have no idea yet whether my A7 III has this issue - will test tonight.  AF in general seems OK though.

You would have to say that if standard AF works OK (eg. flexible spot), but Eye-AF is not right, then that points to an algorithm issue specific to Eye-AF mode.  As you say, that should be correctable in firmware.

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Sony Alpha DSLR-A700 Sony Alpha NEX-6 Sony a6300 Sony a7 III Sigma 30mm F2.8 EX DN +8 more
dazecoop New Member • Posts: 2
Re: Major issue with eye autofocus on A7iii?
1

tommiejeep wrote:

ATLshooter wrote:

tommiejeep wrote:

Kamit,

I am also concerned. I just sold my a7ii and several lenses for pretty much decided on an a7iii or a7riii or even both (if I sell the a7rii) .

Back when, I pre-ordered the Nikon D800 then the posts about AF problems it the net. At the time the Nikon fanboys kept shouting "user error". My order was still in when Nikon stopped the supply so I cancelled my order and never bought one.

I do not use Eye AF but would be totally upset if Flex Spot was not accurate. I would like to see this nailed down. If it is one bad batch I would like to know. If a design problem I would like to know. Some of the other possible problems really do not affect what and how I shoot but inaccurate AF is a no-no for a MILC.

This will possibly put you at ease, but when using af-s and a flexible spot, I get shots in focus almost every time.

Its when using af-c that it consistently front focuses. Either by using eye af or flex spot. The result is basically the same. And if the subject is moving, it’s basically useless.

So not usable for slow action Event work, not to mention faster Events. Bummer, even more important to pin this down.

Thanks

I personally don't find any issues at all with AF-C in any mode. Its pin sharp all the time. The *only* time that I've found an issue was this morning, after discovering this thread & testing my camera using Eye-AF. Eye-AF with AF-C is the only time that I've found a focusing issue on mine.

I've used AF-C mode with flexible spot to track my dog running toward me, on my FE85 @ f1.8 and during a burst of 18-20 photos, 90% of them are tack sharp - which is impressive at such a shallow DoF with a fast moving object.

There is certainly no issues for me with AF-C *unless* using Eye-AF. As I said before, a fast lens exaggerates the issue - as I'm asking the AF system to do more work - the DoF is narrower.

I will ask my wife nicely later this evening if she wouldn't mind holding still while I take some close-up portraits. I will post the results here clearly showing Eye-AF front-focusing.

OP ATLshooter Regular Member • Posts: 385
Re: Major issue with eye autofocus on A7iii?

dazecoop wrote:

tommiejeep wrote:

ATLshooter wrote:

tommiejeep wrote:

Kamit,

I am also concerned. I just sold my a7ii and several lenses for pretty much decided on an a7iii or a7riii or even both (if I sell the a7rii) .

Back when, I pre-ordered the Nikon D800 then the posts about AF problems it the net. At the time the Nikon fanboys kept shouting "user error". My order was still in when Nikon stopped the supply so I cancelled my order and never bought one.

I do not use Eye AF but would be totally upset if Flex Spot was not accurate. I would like to see this nailed down. If it is one bad batch I would like to know. If a design problem I would like to know. Some of the other possible problems really do not affect what and how I shoot but inaccurate AF is a no-no for a MILC.

This will possibly put you at ease, but when using af-s and a flexible spot, I get shots in focus almost every time.

Its when using af-c that it consistently front focuses. Either by using eye af or flex spot. The result is basically the same. And if the subject is moving, it’s basically useless.

So not usable for slow action Event work, not to mention faster Events. Bummer, even more important to pin this down.

Thanks

I personally don't find any issues at all with AF-C in any mode. Its pin sharp all the time. The *only* time that I've found an issue was this morning, after discovering this thread & testing my camera using Eye-AF. Eye-AF with AF-C is the only time that I've found a focusing issue on mine.

I've used AF-C mode with flexible spot to track my dog running toward me, on my FE85 @ f1.8 and during a burst of 18-20 photos, 90% of them are tack sharp - which is impressive at such a shallow DoF with a fast moving object.

There is certainly no issues for me with AF-C *unless* using Eye-AF. As I said before, a fast lens exaggerates the issue - as I'm asking the AF system to do more work - the DoF is narrower.

I will ask my wife nicely later this evening if she wouldn't mind holding still while I take some close-up portraits. I will post the results here clearly showing Eye-AF front-focusing.

Interesting, thanks! I wonder how many people saying "but my eye-af works perfectly!" either just haven't used it at all, or haven't tested it in the circumstances that is making ours fail.

Or, it could be that theirs does in fact work perfectly. But at this point I'm starting to think this issue is a lot more broad that one or three cameras, and people will slowly realize it as they use the feature more.

Just a guess.

 ATLshooter's gear list:ATLshooter's gear list
Sony a7R III Sony FE 55mm F1.8 Zeiss Batis 85mm F1.8
OP ATLshooter Regular Member • Posts: 385
Re: Major issue with eye autofocus on A7iii?
1

New body arrived. Serial prefix is 337.

Issue still exists, without me changing any settings in the camera. I literally turned the camera on, hit af-c, then used the pre-programmed eye af button.

Front focused on my wife's nose on the second picture I took.

This has to be a firmware issue....:-x

 ATLshooter's gear list:ATLshooter's gear list
Sony a7R III Sony FE 55mm F1.8 Zeiss Batis 85mm F1.8
kaku Contributing Member • Posts: 681
Re: Major issue with eye autofocus on A7iii?

ATLshooter wrote:
New body arrived. Serial prefix is 337.
Issue still exists, without me changing any settings in the camera. I literally turned the camera on, hit af-c, then used the pre-programmed eye af button.
Front focused on my wife's nose on the second picture I took.

Could you post a picture? Perhaps maybe not a full picture, but a cropped region showing the eyes and nose?

I have the A7iii along with the 55, but have yet to test. So this has me worried.

OP ATLshooter Regular Member • Posts: 385
Re: Major issue with eye autofocus on A7iii?

kaku wrote:

ATLshooter wrote:
New body arrived. Serial prefix is 337.
Issue still exists, without me changing any settings in the camera. I literally turned the camera on, hit af-c, then used the pre-programmed eye af button.
Front focused on my wife's nose on the second picture I took.

Could you post a picture? Perhaps maybe not a full picture, but a cropped region showing the eyes and nose?

I have the A7iii along with the 55, but have yet to test. So this has me worried.

I've posted a bunch in this thread. Click "flat view" at the top right of the thread and go to page 3. I made a detailed post with pictures showing exactly what's happening.

I wouldn't worry. With the spot AF I can nail the eye every single time.

 ATLshooter's gear list:ATLshooter's gear list
Sony a7R III Sony FE 55mm F1.8 Zeiss Batis 85mm F1.8
Marky12
Marky12 Contributing Member • Posts: 750
Re: Major issue with eye autofocus on A7iii?
1

ATLshooter wrote:

New body arrived. Serial prefix is 337.

Issue still exists, without me changing any settings in the camera. I literally turned the camera on, hit af-c, then used the pre-programmed eye af button.

Front focused on my wife's nose on the second picture I took.

This has to be a firmware issue....:-x

I have the same serial prefix and I don't experience this issue. I tested it with the 85 f/1.8. Only other lens I have is a samyang 35 f/2.8.

Regards,

https://www.flickr.com/photos/22946100@N02/

 Marky12's gear list:Marky12's gear list
Sony RX100 Sony a7 III Sony FE 55mm F1.8 Sony FE 85mm F1.8 Samyang AF 35mm F2.8 FE +2 more
OP ATLshooter Regular Member • Posts: 385
Re: Major issue with eye autofocus on A7iii?

I will post the pics in just a bit, but I just did a test where I used the small spot AF in AF-C to focus on my wife's face while she walked towards me at a slow pace.

I shot around 30 pics. NOT A SINGLE ONE OF THEM IS IN FOCUS.

I just don't understand this. How can other people not be having this issue? How did none of the testers seemingly have this issue?

If I can't get a person walking at me slowly in focus, how can I possibly use this camera for actual work?

At this point I'm more than discouraged and I'm pondering other options. 

 ATLshooter's gear list:ATLshooter's gear list
Sony a7R III Sony FE 55mm F1.8 Zeiss Batis 85mm F1.8
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