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M43 vs canon apsc

Started Apr 8, 2018 | Discussions
(unknown member) Veteran Member • Posts: 4,046
Re: If you really want to compare

Ah, yeah. If you kiss enough frogs.......Even an oyster can eventually make a pearl.

I think we focus too much on technical detail and sharpness, and not enough on photography. I feel like I'm more of a camera operator, and less of a photographer. That's because I'm not a good enough photographer.

Some of it is because digital cameras are so good and so smart, compared with film. Takes a lot of the skill out of it.

You can stand at the edge of a lake before sunrise, or an ocean before sunset and snap away. In a nice location, you will get something decent. You don't have to wait for the moment. Wildlife takes more time.

(unknown member) Veteran Member • Posts: 4,046
Re: If you really want to compare

I like the background too

(unknown member) Veteran Member • Posts: 4,046
Re: If you really want to compare

I find you need to stop the lens down sometimes to produce enough DOF to put an entire small bird in focus. This is where the smaller sensor helps you. Problematic if you don't have full sun. Then you need f/2.8-4 in a telephoto, or the ISO shoots way up and you lose detail.

Those redwings like to hang on thin, tall stalks that sway in a breeze like this one. They move around for balance and in a breeze. You can't shoot as slow a shutter as the kit can manage because there is movement. Not an easy shot.

phil from seattle
phil from seattle Veteran Member • Posts: 3,699
Re: If you really want to compare
2

Mark Ransom wrote:

rashid7 wrote:

i think I'm w/ u here, but i would put more emphasis upon the countless hrs required to "get lucky' with light & SUBJECT (Vs PP)

It's not just any old hours either. You need to be in the right place at the right time, and those places and times often aren't convenient. If you have any kind of life outside of photography you may find it nearly impossible to get those memorable shots.

I agree with you though think of it a bit differently.  One has a fixed budget of time to dedicate to any pursuit, especially a hobby. In the case of photography there are further restrictions such as times when the light is good, weather isn't crap, travel time/distance, and so on. So even as a retired guy with "plenty" of time on my hands I find the opportunities somewhat fleeting. So, I buy the best equipment I can and  work to gain skill with the gear so I can actually take advantage of the opportunities. There is no substitute for time in the saddle.  It's all about maximizing the luck factor.

Also, I use tools/information to put myself where there are better chances to get the right opportunities. For birds, I use eBird and a couple of social media birding groups. With eBird, I can see what has been reported in the last week at a given site.

However, any time with a camera is golden. I seem to always get at least one "keeper" for every photo session I under take. Though, it may not be my original plan - the Red-winged blackbird excursion was about raptors.  I did get a couple of eagle shots but not quite good enough. I was hoping for ospreys but saw none.

 phil from seattle's gear list:phil from seattle's gear list
Olympus E-M1 II OM-1 Olympus M.Zuiko Digital ED 60mm F2.8 Macro Olympus 12-40mm F2.8 Pro Olympus 40-150mm F2.8 Pro +2 more
phil from seattle
phil from seattle Veteran Member • Posts: 3,699
Re: If you really want to compare

MShot wrote:

I find you need to stop the lens down sometimes to produce enough DOF to put an entire small bird in focus. This is where the smaller sensor helps you. Problematic if you don't have full sun. Then you need f/2.8-4 in a telephoto, or the ISO shoots way up and you lose detail.

Those redwings like to hang on thin, tall stalks that sway in a breeze like this one. They move around for balance and in a breeze. You can't shoot as slow a shutter as the kit can manage because there is movement. Not an easy shot.

That shot was 1/400 S, pretty darn slow for birds. In the burst of 6, only 1 was good. Luck factors in again!  Though, I probably should have had the ISO at 800 or 1600 for a faster speed. For the next set of shots, I bumped it to 800. The EM1.2 does pretty well up to 3200.

 phil from seattle's gear list:phil from seattle's gear list
Olympus E-M1 II OM-1 Olympus M.Zuiko Digital ED 60mm F2.8 Macro Olympus 12-40mm F2.8 Pro Olympus 40-150mm F2.8 Pro +2 more
(unknown member) Veteran Member • Posts: 4,046
Re: If you really want to compare

Thanks, Phil.

I like shooting on gloomy days. No shadows, no blown-out highlights. It's easier to control this while pushing camera settings to get the best image out of it. You find good contrast all day, not just first and last light. Yeah, you need fast glass to keep the ISO down because you can't use a slow shutter for tiny birds. Can ISO 2500 produce this? I can't do it if I have to crop.

I have the 14-150 and like it a lot for travel, but I can't produce images this detailed with it. I need the PRO version for that. Some of the delta is lens sharpness, but I think more of it could be shooting f/2.8-4 vs. f/5.6. I see significant difference at 50% crop on a 2000 line 27" monitor. With no crop, not so much. I can't get these tiny, flighty birds to pose long enough to fill the frame with them. I need 1/160 so I need f/2.8 - f/4 to keep the ISO down and produce this level of detail.

Having said that, I don't think the image has to be this sharp or detailed to make a good photo, not at all. It can be technically better, and not a better photo. I mean by this I don't enjoy looking at it because of sharpness or detail. Composition is more important to me. I prefer a soft image that is also a better composition.

The 40-150PRO weighs 1.67lbs + 3oz for the TC when needed. Pretty easy to handle hand held, balanced and heavy enough to help keep it steady. I think OLY designed this one right. I can't fault it except sometimes it makes ugly bokeh. My Four Thirds lenses shoot warmer and generally make more pleasing bokeh, but they don't have the snappy AF, and are bigger and heavier for the FL. I think the 40-150PRO needs to shoot a wider aperture to make a pleasing bokeh, but I'm not sure yet - still testing. I'm really impressed with this PRO lens and the 75 f/1.8. I wish OLY made an M43 150 f/2 prime.

Sometimes I wish the 40-150PRO had more reach, but when I crop the identical image to compare with the FT 50-200, I have to pixel peep to find any difference. Even cropped to match framing, the 40-150PRO image is sharper. It manages light better, and is much easier to handle, Of course the AF is way faster. I find myself reaching for the M43 lens. That's a personal choice. I prefer a cropped image taken by a sharp, fast lens that's easier to handle.

I've cropped images from the 75 f/1.8 and the OM 135 f/2.8 down to 1280X960 and more, displayed them on a 27" 2000 line monitor, and they still look sharp. Can't make print a poster from them, but other than that, it tells me sharpness is more important than resolution.

I'd like to try the 300 f/4 PRO. I'll rent it. Don't need it enough to own it.

Here's a Formula Junior flying up the back straight at Laguna Seca taken with the 75 f/1.8 cropped down and sized to 1280X907. I think its sharp and detailed enough on my 2000 line monitor. No Photoshop. That's the background straight out of the camera.

Below it is "Alana" in my car taken with a 29MP Hasselblad. I have the same photo from the OLY 14-150 and it looks good. For the commercial calendar print this was, the EM-5 and the 14-150 is good enough. The Hassy is better for this studio shot because the resolution is so high, but the image is also softened. The Hassy is better for commercial studio photography, but for everything else I like the sharpest lens, a kit I can comfortably handle. 12-16MP is almost always enough resolution - for me.

Who would compare a 1280X907 image with a 7216X5412 image? Go for it, just don't waste the paper to print them.

Track photo = overcast sky. Studio photo = lighting perfection.

Lens and light are important. In lots of places, camera body / system is overrated. - IMHO

(unknown member) Veteran Member • Posts: 4,046
Re: If you really want to compare

Yes, ISO pretty good in good light, even with EM-5 and PL-7. Works in low light too, but only if you don't have to crop.

(unknown member) Veteran Member • Posts: 4,046
Re: If you really want to compare

Have you tried "Pro Capture?" Could be ideal for the Red Wing Black Bird, herons and such when you don't know when to fire the shutter. If you could run up the shutter speed, and shoot a higher ISO, you could catch it flying off and track it.

Might be tough for a small bird, They are so fast and erratic, the wings flap so rapidly. But for a big bird like an eagle....

Have to find the eBird site. What is the best way to use it?

phil from seattle
phil from seattle Veteran Member • Posts: 3,699
Re: If you really want to compare

MShot wrote:

Have you tried "Pro Capture?" Could be ideal for the Red Wing Black Bird, herons and such when you don't know when to fire the shutter. If you could run up the shutter speed, and shoot a higher ISO, you could catch it flying off and track it.

Might be tough for a small bird, They are so fast and erratic, the wings flap so rapidly. But for a big bird like an eagle....

Have to find the eBird site. What is the best way to use it?

Yes, I have tried ProCap with the PL100-400.  It only works with High continuous so the focus is chosen at the first frame (pre capture frame). This means it only works for birds that stay in the focal plane. For some subjects, that works. With hummers at my feeder, I get maybe 1 or 2 frames in focus after they launch.  I'm better off using continuous low and anticipating their movements.

Maybe with an Olympus lens using ProCap Low, it could work.

eBird website is best. I use it to look at hotspots. They have a phone app that is more for reporting bird sightings/counts but it's really clunky and needs pretty much of rewrite. I go to the ebird page , explore, explore hotspots, zoom in on the map to find specific areas. You can also use explore, species map to find specific birds. It's a very big, sprawling site with lots of ways to view the data.

 phil from seattle's gear list:phil from seattle's gear list
Olympus E-M1 II OM-1 Olympus M.Zuiko Digital ED 60mm F2.8 Macro Olympus 12-40mm F2.8 Pro Olympus 40-150mm F2.8 Pro +2 more
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