M43 vs canon apsc

M43 with f1.7 and 3 axis IBIS versus canon apsc with f2. Which is better in low light? Looking for trouser pocketable camera that is better than a 1" compact. Specifically the e-pl9 vs m100. Both are under 40mm. Add pancake around 60-70mm. The Canon has a bigger sensor and more megapixels and I like to zoom into pictures. However, the e-pl9 has IBIS which helps with the smaller sensor and videos look much better with it. I also like olympus color more. It would've been easier if there was an e-pm3 or something. Not into the panasonic look.

siberstorm27 wrote:

M43 with f1.7 and 3 axis IBIS versus canon apsc with f2. Which is better in low light? Looking for trouser pocketable camera that is better than a 1" compact. Specifically the e-pl9 vs m100. Both are under 40mm. Add pancake around 60-70mm. The Canon has a bigger sensor and more megapixels and I like to zoom into pictures. However, the e-pl9 has IBIS which helps with the smaller sensor and videos look much better with it. I also like olympus color more. It would've been easier if there was an e-pm3 or something. Not into the panasonic look.

If you are just going to do photos, I would go with the m100 w/ 22mm f2.0 lens. Thats a great set up. If you want the better lens system and video go with m43. An epl-9 with the panasonic 20mm f1.7, is close, but eos with that 22mm is better for photos.

I left eos m because I wanted better viseo, m43 photos are close but that larger sensor does pay dividends.

If you are going to stick with the EF-M 22mm f/2 (which appears to be the only lens that fits your criteria) and not consider any other lenses, then the M100 might be the better choice just on IQ.

If you want zooms or to change lenses in the future, then the MFT option is better because the lens selection is far superior. For example. for pancake zooms, EF-M has none (even the most compact 15-45mm f/3.5-6.3 zoom is significantly thicker). One of the reasons why EF-M wasn't even on my shopping list (even Sony has a 16-50mm PZ) when I was looking for a jacket pocketable ILC (trouser/pants pocketable is even tougher).

MFT Pancake zooms:

12-32mm f/3.5-5.6 (I personally feel is the better choice out of the three)

14-42mm f/3.5-5.6 EZ

14-42mm f/3.5-5.6 PZ

MFT Pancake primes:

14mm f/2.5

17mm f/2.8

20mm f/1.7 (I or II)

There are also the 9mm f/8 fisheye and 15mm f/8 bodycap lenses (which can push the E-PL9 to become pocketable in some pockets where the M100 won't be).

siberstorm27 wrote:

M43 with f1.7 and 3 axis IBIS versus canon apsc with f2. Which is better in low light? Looking for trouser pocketable camera that is better than a 1" compact.

Unfortunately there is no pocketable low light ILC solution in my opinion. Tried the gx800 and even with the tiny 14mm/2.5 it doesn’t fit in a normal pocket. For me the only real pocketable m43 kits are the gm1/5 with the Olympus bodycaps, but forget low light. I know 1” sensor is not better but it is the best compromise if size is important, why don’t you try it?

Specifically the e-pl9 vs m100. Both are under 40mm. Add pancake around 60-70mm. The Canon has a bigger sensor and more megapixels and I like to zoom into pictures. However, the e-pl9 has IBIS which helps with the smaller sensor and videos look much better with it. I also like olympus color more. It would've been easier if there was an e-pm3 or something. Not into the panasonic look.

jhunna wrote:

siberstorm27 wrote:

M43 with f1.7 and 3 axis IBIS versus canon apsc with f2. Which is better in low light? Looking for trouser pocketable camera that is better than a 1" compact. Specifically the e-pl9 vs m100. Both are under 40mm. Add pancake around 60-70mm. The Canon has a bigger sensor and more megapixels and I like to zoom into pictures. However, the e-pl9 has IBIS which helps with the smaller sensor and videos look much better with it. I also like olympus color more. It would've been easier if there was an e-pm3 or something. Not into the panasonic look.

If you are just going to do photos, I would go with the m100 w/ 22mm f2.0 lens. Thats a great set up. If you want the better lens system and video go with m43. An epl-9 with the panasonic 20mm f1.7, is close, but eos with that 22mm is better for photos.

I left eos m because I wanted better viseo, m43 photos are close but that larger sensor does pay dividends.

I would not say that the EOS Ms are generally better than current mFT cameras:

http://www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/PDR.htm#Canon%20EOS%20M5,Canon%20EOS%20M6,Canon%20EOS%20M50,Olympus%20OM-D%20E-M10

Sonsor is not THAT much bigger (it's no FF anyhow) and if sensor readout is less than perfect, the APSC "advantage" is gone ...

CrisPhoto wrote:

jhunna wrote:

siberstorm27 wrote:

M43 with f1.7 and 3 axis IBIS versus canon apsc with f2. Which is better in low light? Looking for trouser pocketable camera that is better than a 1" compact. Specifically the e-pl9 vs m100. Both are under 40mm. Add pancake around 60-70mm. The Canon has a bigger sensor and more megapixels and I like to zoom into pictures. However, the e-pl9 has IBIS which helps with the smaller sensor and videos look much better with it. I also like olympus color more. It would've been easier if there was an e-pm3 or something. Not into the panasonic look.

If you are just going to do photos, I would go with the m100 w/ 22mm f2.0 lens. Thats a great set up. If you want the better lens system and video go with m43. An epl-9 with the panasonic 20mm f1.7, is close, but eos with that 22mm is better for photos.

I left eos m because I wanted better viseo, m43 photos are close but that larger sensor does pay dividends.

I would not say that the EOS Ms are generally better than current mFT cameras:

http://www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/PDR.htm#Canon%20EOS%20M5,Canon%20EOS%20M6,Canon%20EOS%20M50,Olympus%20OM-D%20E-M10

Sonsor is not THAT much bigger (it's no FF anyhow) and if sensor readout is less than perfect, the APSC "advantage" is gone ...

Neither of the cameras we are talking about are on your chart...

jhunna wrote:

CrisPhoto wrote:

jhunna wrote:

siberstorm27 wrote:

M43 with f1.7 and 3 axis IBIS versus canon apsc with f2. Which is better in low light? Looking for trouser pocketable camera that is better than a 1" compact. Specifically the e-pl9 vs m100. Both are under 40mm. Add pancake around 60-70mm. The Canon has a bigger sensor and more megapixels and I like to zoom into pictures. However, the e-pl9 has IBIS which helps with the smaller sensor and videos look much better with it. I also like olympus color more. It would've been easier if there was an e-pm3 or something. Not into the panasonic look.

If you are just going to do photos, I would go with the m100 w/ 22mm f2.0 lens. Thats a great set up. If you want the better lens system and video go with m43. An epl-9 with the panasonic 20mm f1.7, is close, but eos with that 22mm is better for photos.

I left eos m because I wanted better viseo, m43 photos are close but that larger sensor does pay dividends.

I would not say that the EOS Ms are generally better than current mFT cameras:

http://www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/PDR.htm#Canon%20EOS%20M5,Canon%20EOS%20M6,Canon%20EOS%20M50,Olympus%20OM-D%20E-M10

Sonsor is not THAT much bigger (it's no FF anyhow) and if sensor readout is less than perfect, the APSC "advantage" is gone ...

Neither of the cameras we are talking about are on your chart...

The epl9 will probably be equivalent to the E-M10 with the 16MP sensor, but it has not yet been reviewed by DXO.  The DXO score for the EOS-M100 is the same as the M6 which isn't surprising since they almost certainly have the same sensor.

Bigger this and more megapixels there....Look at DxO and you get the picture. They are identical. Oly Em1.2 seems just a little better but nothing anyone would notice. G9 (supposedly GH5 sensor), Em1.2 and GH5 score the same as the best Canon APS-c. In fact even the very best APS-c currently barely distinguish themselves from mFTs current best, so mFTs currently are punching above their weight whereas Canon is still punching a bit below its weight. We should consider of course that Canon APS-c is 315 mm2 and not 365 mm2 provided by Sony's APS-c format.

In general we can say that all current/recent mFT and APS-c camera's perform virtually indistinguishable in general from oneanother. In detail though  some APS-c cams, like the D7200 and D7500 provide much better base ISO Dynamic Range. Canon APS-c however does not.

I've been wondering about the lack of stabilization on the Canon mirrorless series. There is no IS in Canon M series bodies except the new M50 which has "digital" IS (very little is written on that topic as yet). They rely on lens stabilization. Having used a number of EM bodies over the last couple of years, I find IBIS to be a huge advantage, especially in low light. The photo below was a 2.5 second hand-held, unbraced exposure. (It did take 2 attempts, TBH.) While it's not razor sharp, it does illustrate the value of IBIS.  My Nikon D90 with a VR lens would never even come close to this. I am personally reluctant to consider moving to a camera that doesn't have outstanding image stabilization for hand held work.

jhunna wrote:

CrisPhoto wrote:

jhunna wrote:

siberstorm27 wrote:

M43 with f1.7 and 3 axis IBIS versus canon apsc with f2. Which is better in low light? Looking for trouser pocketable camera that is better than a 1" compact. Specifically the e-pl9 vs m100. Both are under 40mm. Add pancake around 60-70mm. The Canon has a bigger sensor and more megapixels and I like to zoom into pictures. However, the e-pl9 has IBIS which helps with the smaller sensor and videos look much better with it. I also like olympus color more. It would've been easier if there was an e-pm3 or something. Not into the panasonic look.

If you are just going to do photos, I would go with the m100 w/ 22mm f2.0 lens. Thats a great set up. If you want the better lens system and video go with m43. An epl-9 with the panasonic 20mm f1.7, is close, but eos with that 22mm is better for photos.

I left eos m because I wanted better viseo, m43 photos are close but that larger sensor does pay dividends.

I would not say that the EOS Ms are generally better than current mFT cameras:

http://www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/PDR.htm#Canon%20EOS%20M5,Canon%20EOS%20M6,Canon%20EOS%20M50,Olympus%20OM-D%20E-M10

Sonsor is not THAT much bigger (it's no FF anyhow) and if sensor readout is less than perfect, the APSC "advantage" is gone ...

Neither of the cameras we are talking about are on your chart...

If you own a M6 it would be a good idea to ask Bill Claff how to take some test shots to feed his sensor database. I will update my screenshot then ...

siberstorm27 wrote:

M43 with f1.7 and 3 axis IBIS versus canon apsc with f2. Which is better in low light? Looking for trouser pocketable camera that is better than a 1" compact. Specifically the e-pl9 vs m100. Both are under 40mm. Add pancake around 60-70mm. The Canon has a bigger sensor and more megapixels and I like to zoom into pictures. However, the e-pl9 has IBIS which helps with the smaller sensor and videos look much better with it. I also like olympus color more. It would've been easier if there was an e-pm3 or something. Not into the panasonic look.

They'll be basically identical (f1.7 * 2x crop = 3.4 FF equivalent, f2 * 1.6x crop = f3.2 FF equivalent) if you need to freeze motion, but the E-PL9 will be quite a bit better with a static scene because you'll be able to shoot 2-3 stops slower than the Canon without getting motion blur.

I wouldn't sweat the technical image quality, it won't be a real differentiator. Pick the one that you find nicer to handle. Or pick the one that has nicer colours to your eyes. Or pick the one that feels more intuitive.

Any of those things are more important than 1/6th of a stop of noise that you would struggle to notice even if you were pixel-peeping identical shots taken by each camera right next to each other. Which you'll of course never do.

siberstorm27 wrote:

M43 with f1.7 and 3 axis IBIS versus canon apsc with f2. Which is better in low light? Looking for trouser pocketable camera that is better than a 1" compact. Specifically the e-pl9 vs m100. Both are under 40mm. Add pancake around 60-70mm. The Canon has a bigger sensor and more megapixels and I like to zoom into pictures. However, the e-pl9 has IBIS which helps with the smaller sensor and videos look much better with it. I also like olympus color more. It would've been easier if there was an e-pm3 or something. Not into the panasonic look.

I shot Canon for many years, I even have a Canon EOS-M + 22mm f/2 before I switch over to M43.  In my experience with lowlight:

Olympus E-PL9 (with 16mp Sony sensor) is superior to Canon in lowlight,

Canon, both 24mp or 18mp, is better than Panasonic in lowlight

But once you factor in the 3 stop IBIS advantage, it becomes a definite win for Olympus E-PL9

Keep in mind that Canon M100 don't have IBIS, and Canon 22mm f/2 prime lack stabilization.  Still, I'm quite happy shooting Canon 22mm f/2 in lowlight without stabilization: smaller the camera, easier it is to hold without stabilization.

16mp Sony sensor in Olympus is quite good, I prefer it over both Canon 24mp and 18mp due to its slighlty cleaner iso3200 performance, where I shoot mostly.  I'm comfortable using iso3200 with Olympus, with iso6400 as last result.  The biggest advantage in lowlight is that Olympus has 3 stop IBIS.  That means under these same conditions of extreme lowlight:

Canon with 22mm f/2 (no stabilization), I have to rely 100% on high iso.  I dont' find iso6400 tolerable for my portait photography: too noisy result in poor skintones, so I will rather under-exposed @iso3200 then post-processing to brighten the image with noise reduction.

Where as Olmpus E-PL9 (under the same condition) in theory can be shot @3 stop lower.  That means instead of noisy iso6400 → iso3200 → iso1600 → iso800, I can shoot @much cleaner iso800 without noisy images.

These are just theory, in real life, I'm more conservative with 2 stop estimation.  Still, that means I can shoot @iso1600 (very clean) without worrry.

Canon biggest advantage is in Dual-CMOS-AF for superior Video Tracking for Vlog.  If you Vlog, forget Panasonic or Olympus, just stick with the Canon.  For still, shooting, I'll take either Olympus E-PL9 / E-PL8 / E-PL7 over Canon M5 / M6 / M50 / M100.

Canon 22mm f/2 is a great lens, but it also FLARE quite easily and doesn't have a lens hood to prevent lens flare.