M43 and professional end use. Locked

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NCV
NCV Veteran Member • Posts: 7,567
M43 and professional end use.

Here is a little tale of how M43 can be used for professional use even at high ISO. I hope this little story is instructive in more ways than one, especially to the naysayers out there.

A couple of years ago I visited Palazzo Ducale in Manova/Mantua with my EM5 and a couple of 2.8 zooms. I am interested in photographing architecture. I obviously could not use a tripod. The pictures were for my own amusement and a post on my Blog. Good enough quality was my goal.

It is quite dark inside these old buildings so slow shutter speeds and high ISO were mostly necessary. IBIS is vital to me in these situations.

Recently I was contacted by a cultural organisation in Vienna who are organising an exhibition concerning mazes. They had found the picture of the ceiling maze that I posted on my blog and wanted to use it in as part of an exhibition. I sent them the picture explaining that it was taken without a tripod at high ISO as It was the only way I could get the shot. They wanted to print to A2.

Result; they were more than pleased with the JPEG I sent them denoised in DXO prime.
I did a Google image search to see how they found my picture “labirinto palazzo ducale mantova” out of curiosity.

It is easy to see why they contacted me, I think mine is the only successful composition in the results that came up. I did not look at the technical quality of the other search results.

It seems there are few pictures of this famous ceiling floating around on the internet.

Conclusion, if you have a well composed picture of something that has hardly been photographed by many others, M43 at high ISO is fine for professional use, effective IBIS allowed me to get the shot in the first place, it seems not many of the thousands of visitors to this palace every year have attempted to shoot this ceiling.

Another conclusion is that I do not need to carry a huge clunky FF around with me to get results that are professionally usable. I can now forget about Sony and all the FF rest.

I am sure there are other conclusions.

Here is a greatly reduced version of the picture.

Maze Palazzo Ducale Mantova

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Tommi K1 Senior Member • Posts: 5,461
It is you, not the studio samples.

NCV wrote:

Here is a little tale of how M43 can be used for professional use even at high ISO. I hope this little story is instructive in more ways than one, especially to the naysayers out there.

Naysayers doesn't know or/and understand that in professional use it is not so much about the gear (sharpness, thin DOF, contrast, colors, noise) but the composition, framing, lighting and overall theme. And technicality is just to deliver quality for the final output.

A2 size print is large (420 x 594mm / 42x59cm) but not huge. That is print size that most can buy and hang in their homes walls. You can go up to 75x60cm size but then you start to limit seriously where someone can place the print and how many. So you are limiting your customer base quickly.

It is the same thing when selling televisions, when customer walks around a store with dozens of 40-65" televisions, they all look tiny. They can stand front of a 65" television and say "This looks good size that would fit my TV station". Then they look 55" televisions and they are tiny compared to 65" and say they could never use so small television.

And then they take the measurements taken from TV station, they compare them to 65" and see it would fit there just fine but TV station is just just tight fit. So their feminine side should step in at that moment to say that 55" is the better choice, but man will step foot on ground and say "55" is too small!".

And too often you see other one returning back to store with a 65" TV and picking up a 50-55" version because the huge TV did fit for the TV station, but it did not fit to decoration.

The same thing is with the prints. If you make different sizes prints from same photo (like 60x45, 70x50, 80x60 and 100x75) the huge one will draw attention easily. It gets admired (even when ie ISO 2500-3200 from 16Mpix 4/3") without people pointing about detail loss, noise or lack of sharpness as there is nothing to complain.

But it takes knowledge from the buyer to understand what size print they can go and fit to their walls and what they can match to their decoration.

Going with a larger prints is just most often useless if you want to sell more and generate more profit.

A2 size is large, impressive and more than enough for most. Especially when you add passepartout and framing, the print gets huge.

Choose a good medium, printing method etc and lots of things can be adjusted. And pixel peepers would be required to eat their hats as they can't see what they see in digital.

That is what a optimal format means, you can work as a professional, amateur or just as a hobbyist, and you don't need to worry about using a smaller format, higher ISO etc if you know how to work and produce the final photo.

Result; they were more than pleased with the JPEG I sent them denoised in DXO prime.
I did a Google image search to see how they found my picture “labirinto palazzo ducale mantova” out of curiosity.

By a quick glance your definitely was best. One got close IMHO but it was tight crop. Anyways it is easy to see how composition, framing and overall delivery was the key, so everything in you instead in the gear, but the gear as you say helped you to get it because IBIS etc.

Messier Object Veteran Member • Posts: 7,416
Re: M43 and professional end use.

It's a nice shot to be sure.  Trying to keep people out of shot is my biggest problem shooting walls and ceilings in museums and galleries, and the centre of the floor where the best image can be made of a ceiling is usually the busiest point, or they place an exhibit there

I'm curious as to why they describe that ceiling design as a "maze" as there is only one path leading out from the centre with no decision points, and no exit ?

Peter

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mg_k Veteran Member • Posts: 3,075
Re: M43 and professional end use.

Bottom line - how much did they pay you for the rights of using the photo?

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NCV
OP NCV Veteran Member • Posts: 7,567
Re: M43 and professional end use.

mg_k wrote:

Bottom line - how much did they pay you for the rights of using the photo?

That is my business, and it was rude to ask.

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Donald B
Donald B Forum Pro • Posts: 10,217
Re: M43 and professional end use.

Im not complaining my em52 has paid for itself 10 times over in the last year love it when parents come up to me and say they really liked the photos I took of their daughters at their dance school shoots.

Don

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Pete_W
Pete_W Contributing Member • Posts: 890
Re: M43 and professional end use.

Nice work, Nigel.

p.s. I suspect that the trolls will be along soon now and when I log in to the forum tomorrow, this thread will (unfortunately) be locked.

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Pete

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mg_k Veteran Member • Posts: 3,075
Re: M43 and professional end use.

NCV wrote:

mg_k wrote:

Bottom line - how much did they pay you for the rights of using the photo?

That is my business, and it was rude to ask.

Lol how's that rude?

You don't have to answer, but that doesn't make my question rude.

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NCV
OP NCV Veteran Member • Posts: 7,567
Re: M43 and professional end use.

Pete_W wrote:

Nice work, Nigel.

p.s. I suspect that the trolls will be along soon now and when I log in to the forum tomorrow, this thread will (unfortunately) be locked.

Looking at the replies so far it took about two minutes.

Unfortunately posting anything positive about M43 can only end in a sea of negative replies that tries to drown out any positivity. I do not know what is wrong with these people.

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mg_k Veteran Member • Posts: 3,075
Re: M43 and professional end use.

NCV wrote:

Pete_W wrote:

Nice work, Nigel.

p.s. I suspect that the trolls will be along soon now and when I log in to the forum tomorrow, this thread will (unfortunately) be locked.

Looking at the replies so far it took about two minutes.

Unfortunately posting anything positive about M43 can only end in a sea of negative replies that tries to drown out any positivity. I do not know what is wrong with these people.

I'm curious to know how much you've made with your professional camera for what it seems to be a professional sale.

And that's negative, rude and trollish?

Mod - feel free to remove my messages or ban me if that's the case.

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nigbat Senior Member • Posts: 1,928
Re: M43 and professional end use.

Kirk Tuck has been writing in the same vein for over half a decade - and seems to have pretty well struggling with the 'limited' M4/3 system...

https://visualsciencelab.blogspot.co.uk/2018/03/an-apt-reprint-from-2012-about.html

Paul Amyes
Paul Amyes Senior Member • Posts: 1,785
Re: M43 and professional end use.

Two exhibitions solely shot with m4/3s, two books shot solely with m4/3s, prints held by museums and academic facilities, numerous articles, and videos later I have no doubt that m4/3 is more than capable for professional use.

To be honest when I think how hard I used to have to work in the days of using 25 and 50 ISO colour tranny film dealing with reciprocity failure, colour filtration, colour matching, clip tests etc etc to get images suitable for publication I'm absolutely floored when people say it m4/3 is unsuitable. Some people have no idea at all .they should stop posting crap on forums and get out and take photos.

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NCV
OP NCV Veteran Member • Posts: 7,567
Re: M43 and professional end use.

nigbat wrote:

Kirk Tuck has been writing in the same vein for over half a decade - and seems to have pretty well struggling with the 'limited' M4/3 system...

https://visualsciencelab.blogspot.co.uk/2018/03/an-apt-reprint-from-2012-about.html

He hit the nail right on the head. Good find.

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NCV
OP NCV Veteran Member • Posts: 7,567
Re: M43 and professional end use.

mg_k wrote:

NCV wrote:

Pete_W wrote:

Nice work, Nigel.

p.s. I suspect that the trolls will be along soon now and when I log in to the forum tomorrow, this thread will (unfortunately) be locked.

Looking at the replies so far it took about two minutes.

Unfortunately posting anything positive about M43 can only end in a sea of negative replies that tries to drown out any positivity. I do not know what is wrong with these people.

I'm curious to know how much you've made with your professional camera for what it seems to be a professional sale.

And that's negative, rude and trollish?

Mod - feel free to remove my messages or ban me if that's the case.

That is my business, and it was rude to ask.

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NCV
OP NCV Veteran Member • Posts: 7,567
Re: M43 and professional end use.

Paul Amyes wrote:

Two exhibitions solely shot with m4/3s, two books shot solely with m4/3s, prints held by museums and academic facilities, numerous articles, and videos later I have no doubt that m4/3 is more than capable for professional use.

To be honest when I think how hard I used to have to work in the days of using 25 and 50 ISO colour tranny film dealing with reciprocity failure, colour filtration, colour matching, clip tests etc etc to get images suitable for publication I'm absolutely floored when people say it m4/3 is unsuitable. Some people have no idea at all .they should stop posting crap on forums and get out and take photos.

I have read that well exposed M43 is now equal to 120 film as far as image quality goes. Nuff said.

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Mystic38 Regular Member • Posts: 224
Re: M43 and professional end use.

mg_k wrote:

NCV wrote:

mg_k wrote:

Bottom line - how much did they pay you for the rights of using the photo?

That is my business, and it was rude to ask.

Lol how's that rude?

You don't have to answer, but that doesn't make my question rude.

Yes, it kinda was. it may be a cultural thing, but for me, it was impolite  to ask.

and may I say, the financial terms have nothing to do with the thread

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tomrandall86
tomrandall86 Regular Member • Posts: 230
Re: M43 and professional end use.

Superb work! Detail, colour, contrast all look fantastic!

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NCV
OP NCV Veteran Member • Posts: 7,567
Re: M43 and professional end use.

tomrandall86 wrote:

Superb work! Detail, colour, contrast all look fantastic!

I am still amazed what I can pull out of a M43 RAW in DXO.

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Brian Wadie
Brian Wadie Veteran Member • Posts: 9,294
Re: M43 and professional end use.

NCV wrote:

Pete_W wrote:

Nice work, Nigel.

p.s. I suspect that the trolls will be along soon now and when I log in to the forum tomorrow, this thread will (unfortunately) be locked.

Looking at the replies so far it took about two minutes.

Unfortunately posting anything positive about M43 can only end in a sea of negative replies that tries to drown out any positivity. I do not know what is wrong with these people.

I sympathise, its why I have more or less stopped doing so, this site does seem to attract those with negativity issues.

Have you spotted this site, a much different feel

http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/board/61

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So much to learn, so little time left to do it!

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mferencz Contributing Member • Posts: 555
Re: M43 and professional end use.

I've noticed critics of camera output are rarely in the business of selling and or buying prints.   They share opinions instead.

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