Quick fix: Is the backlight stripe noise really a major problem?

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Magnar W
Magnar W Senior Member • Posts: 3,184
Quick fix: Is the backlight stripe noise really a major problem?
14

There are a lot noise/discussion about the stripe banding from the A7III for areas with strong back light. Some even say this is an issue that will make many to stay away from buying this camera.

So much talk. Why don't anybody do something with the problem, was my thought. So I decided to do something myself this morning. I downloaded one of the affected sample pictures from the Dpreview A7III gallery, and did a very easy quick fix with Photoshop. This took me just a few seconds to do.

The final judgement: Do you find the fix acceptable, and the result useable?

Left: The original, a 100% crop from the Dpreview sample gallery. Right: A fix that takes a few seconds to do with Photoshop. What do you think about the result? Good enough?

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BillyNZ Forum Member • Posts: 63
Re: Quick fix: Is the backlight stripe noise really a major problem?

Hi,

I think your results are great, especially if it didn't take you long. Could you please explain the process to fix this issue?

Thanks!

Magnar W
OP Magnar W Senior Member • Posts: 3,184
Re: Quick fix: Is the backlight stripe noise really a major problem?

BillyNZ wrote:

Hi,

I think your results are great, especially if it didn't take you long. Could you please explain the process to fix this issue?

For sure I will explain the steps invorlved in post processing, but first I want to know if people think such a fix is good enough or not.

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David Bo
David Bo Senior Member • Posts: 1,136
Re: Quick fix: Is the backlight stripe noise really a major problem?
2

Magnar W wrote:

BillyNZ wrote:

Hi,

I think your results are great, especially if it didn't take you long. Could you please explain the process to fix this issue?

For sure I will explain the steps invorlved in post processing, but first I want to know if people think such a fix is good enough or not.

It looks fine Magnar, but it's just annoying that you need to fix it. But guess it's not worse than removing sensor dust from photos 😉.

Venlig hilsen David

tommiejeep Veteran Member • Posts: 6,069
Re: Quick fix: Is the backlight stripe noise really a major problem?
16

Looks much better to me but it seems the vertical lines cleaned up better than the horizontal. Maybe just my eyes .

Is it good enough? Only you can say if it is for you.

Is it a major problem?  I would rather not have to deal with it!

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Magnar W
OP Magnar W Senior Member • Posts: 3,184
Re: Quick fix: Is the backlight stripe noise really a major problem?
1

David Bo wrote:

Magnar W wrote:

BillyNZ wrote:

Hi,

I think your results are great, especially if it didn't take you long. Could you please explain the process to fix this issue?

For sure I will explain the steps invorlved in post processing, but first I want to know if people think such a fix is good enough or not.

It looks fine Magnar, but it's just annoying that you need to fix it. But guess it's not worse than removing sensor dust from photos 😉.

Venlig hilsen David

Sure, no stripes would have been excellent. But this isssue is a fact, so the next question is: How to deal with it?

The options are:

  • Panic
  • Leave it as is, and accept the artifacts - hardly a proble with scaled-down pictures
  • Fix the few pictures that are affected

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pippo27 Regular Member • Posts: 318
Re: Quick fix: Is the backlight stripe noise really a major problem?
1

Hi,

There are a lot noise/discussion about the stripe banding from the A7III for areas with strong back light. Some even say this is an issue that will make many to stay away from buying this camera.

I personally think it's pretty bad for a 2k camera, if this turns out to be a systematic problem (as opposed to say just a defective unit). The A7III is way more advanced than what I can justify given my skills -- I'm just a (bad) amateur -- so I wouldn't have bought it anyway, but the issue remains. In fact, I think that this should not happen even on a budget camera like the a6000, which is what I have (and which is affected by the very same problem -- or at least a problem that shows the very same effect).

On the other hand, until a couple of days ago I was completely unaware of this, as I had never taken a shot under the conditions that make the problem visible (at least on the a6000). So I think that in practice for many people it won't be a big deal.

This said:

So much talk. Why don't anybody do something with the problem, was my thought.

Well, just FYI:
https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/60831577
https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/60832239

I think the same should work for the A7III, though I'd need RAW files to be sure (it works for the A9 though, at least on the couple of shots in dpreview's sample galleries that show a similar issue).

tonyC1994 Regular Member • Posts: 329
Re: Quick fix: Is the backlight stripe noise really a major problem?
4

Magnar W wrote:

There are a lot noise/discussion about the stripe banding from the A7III for areas with strong back light. Some even say this is an issue that will make many to stay away from buying this camera.

So much talk. Why don't anybody do something with the problem, was my thought. So I decided to do something myself this morning. I downloaded one of the affected sample pictures from the Dpreview A7III gallery, and did a very easy quick fix with Photoshop. This took me just a few seconds to do.

The final judgement: Do you find the fix acceptable, and the result useable?

Left: The original, a 100% crop from the Dpreview sample gallery. Right: A fix that takes a few seconds to do with Photoshop. What do you think about the result? Good enough?

It’s much better but the stripes are still there. Especially at  The area right up to the nose and the model’s left eyes.

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tonyC1994 Regular Member • Posts: 329
Re: Quick fix: Is the backlight stripe noise really a major problem?
11

Magnar W wrote:

David Bo wrote:

Magnar W wrote:

BillyNZ wrote:

Hi,

I think your results are great, especially if it didn't take you long. Could you please explain the process to fix this issue?

For sure I will explain the steps invorlved in post processing, but first I want to know if people think such a fix is good enough or not.

It looks fine Magnar, but it's just annoying that you need to fix it. But guess it's not worse than removing sensor dust from photos 😉.

Venlig hilsen David

Sure, no stripes would have been excellent. But this isssue is a fact, so the next question is: How to deal with it?

The options are:

  • Panic
  • Leave it as is, and accept the artifacts - hardly a proble with scaled-down pictures
  • Fix the few pictures that are affected

At this moment, a better option would be no buying or just wait.

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Magnar W
OP Magnar W Senior Member • Posts: 3,184
Re: Quick fix: Is the backlight stripe noise really a major problem?

pippo27 wrote:

In fact, I think that this should not happen even on a budget camera like the a6000

This is an issue that rarely is seen, and affect just parts of the images. This might be the price we have to pay for very good on-senspr phase detection autofocus.

On the other hand, until a couple of days ago I was completely unaware of this, as I had never taken a shot under the conditions that make the problem visible (at least on the a6000). So I think that in practice for many people it won't be a big deal.

This is true. Many might have taken pictures and not even noticed this issue if it at all affects some of their pictures.

We had the compressed raw artifacts, the 'star eater', and color - all problems that were brought to heights on forums like this one. Now those issues seems almost forgotten, and I think the same will happen to this 'backlight stripe issue'.

If a few of your pictures should be affected, it is nice to know that there is a simple Photoshop fix.

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PAntunes Regular Member • Posts: 116
Re: Quick fix: Is the backlight stripe noise really a major problem?
4

Not acceptable. The face looks ok, but the hair on her face doesn't. Smoothing skin, that has a soft pattern is easy. But how does it work on the hair that has lots of details?

Magnar W
OP Magnar W Senior Member • Posts: 3,184
Re: Quick fix: Is the backlight stripe noise really a major problem?
5

tonyC1994 wrote:

At this moment, a better option would be no buying or just wait.

Waiting with buying because of such an issue? No way!

How many of your pictures will be affected, do you think? Hardly none, unless you do a lot backlit scenes work with bright lenses (some report that bright lenses will enhance the stripes).

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pippo27 Regular Member • Posts: 318
Re: Quick fix: Is the backlight stripe noise really a major problem?
1

Hi,

If a few of your pictures should be affected, it is nice to know that there is a simple Photoshop fix.

If that works for you, sure! FWIW I personally think this problem is much better handled in raw than with a photo retouching software though.

Magnar W
OP Magnar W Senior Member • Posts: 3,184
Re: Quick fix: Is the backlight stripe noise really a major problem?
2

tonyC1994 wrote:

It’s much better but the stripes are still there. Especially at The area right up to the nose and the model’s left eyes.

These are 100% crops. If the pictures are scaled down, you would hardly notice any problem from fixed files, not even at close inspection. So also if you are printing, and the data is converted to printer raster dots.

For me 100% monitor peeping tells something about the file quality, but less about real world qualities, where image content is king.

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Magnar W
OP Magnar W Senior Member • Posts: 3,184
Re: Quick fix: Is the backlight stripe noise really a major problem?
1

pippo27 wrote:

Hi,

If a few of your pictures should be affected, it is nice to know that there is a simple Photoshop fix.

If that works for you, sure! FWIW I personally think this problem is much better handled in raw than with a photo retouching software though.

Sure, but how do you do that?

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Magnar W
OP Magnar W Senior Member • Posts: 3,184
Re: Quick fix: Is the backlight stripe noise really a major problem?
2

PAntunes wrote:

Not acceptable. The face looks ok, but the hair on her face doesn't. Smoothing skin, that has a soft pattern is easy. But how does it work on the hair that has lots of details?

The skin tones are not smoothened with the fix. The fix just handles the stripes.

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pippo27 Regular Member • Posts: 318
Re: Quick fix: Is the backlight stripe noise really a major problem?
2

If that works for you, sure! FWIW I personally think this problem is much better handled in raw than with a photo retouching software though.

Sure, but how do you do that?

I posted links in my previous reply. You can see the effect on a a6000 (although less pronounced) here:
https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/60831577

A demonstration of the fix is here:
https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/60832239

A (user-level) description of what it is is here:
https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/60832353

For a developer-level description, have a look here:
https://github.com/Beep6581/RawTherapee/blob/raw-line-noise-direction/rtengine/cfa_linedn_RT.cc

HTH

Trollmannx Senior Member • Posts: 4,605
Re: Quick fix: Is the backlight stripe noise really a major problem?
1

Seems like the stripes appear with fast lenses at wide apertures only. If so, this is not a major problem - at least not when a five second fix is the cure.

Coming from the A7 with sensor reflection and onion rings and slow autofocus and some other gripes as well (still delivering stunning results except for some borderline cases) the A7III will be a major improvement anyway.

Could wish for perfection...

Getting rid of eventual stripes will be the least problem as shooting against a strong light source is not what is done very often, at least not in my case.

Just wondering:

- Are the artefacts dependent upon where in the frame the light source is?

- Any artefacts when shooting into strong light sources with the A9 or A7RIII?

Magnar W
OP Magnar W Senior Member • Posts: 3,184
Re: Quick fix: Is the backlight stripe noise really a major problem?
1

tonyC1994 wrote:

It’s much better but the stripes are still there. Especially at The area right up to the nose and the model’s left eyes.

I can't see much stripes at the left eye.

Also, this is not a 100% fix, it is a very, very quick fix.

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The Davinator
The Davinator Forum Pro • Posts: 20,802
Re: Quick fix: Is the backlight stripe noise really a major problem?

tommiejeep wrote:

Looks much better to me but it seems the vertical lines cleaned up better than the horizontal. Maybe just my eyes .

Is it good enough? Only you can say if it is for you.

Is it a major problem? I would rather not have to deal with it!

Seems to have changed the skin texture somewhat.  As well, one can see some patterning still in the black background to the left of the model.  If the files require more post and workarounds, that could be a detriment to some.

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