2 new entry cams ....

Stevess wrote:

Labe wrote:

canon uk just announced the 2000D and 4000D £369 and £329 . Anyone short on cash can now afford a new dslr .

Just might inject some new life into the forum, yes they are basic but the 2000D has the 24mp sensor add to that the cheap 10-18,18-55 and 55-250 you get a great start for not a lot.

What's the point of the 4000d? PLASTIC MOUNT? Recycled 550d parts? In 2018? For more than the 1300d? Its not April yet, Canon!

I had to smile at some of the cost-saving measures on the 4000D - there's the ugly plastic mount (which has been done before by film EOS models and Sony has had digitals with them too) but a particularly amusing one, actually explained by a Canon rep, was that all the labelling on the camera is in white to save money by not using blue and green paint for some of the icons, as is usual! Then I see there's no power switch as an EOS in this family would normally have - you use the mode dial to turn it off and on - plus a "pull it up yourself" flash head - again, something which has been done before (such as on Canon superzooms and other brands) - and I see the telltale tabs on the flash head for the new EOS M50 mirrorless, too.

Another thing I just spotted that is missing is a dioptric correction dial (eyesight adjustment) - that's a first.  Like some of the other cheaper EOS models (including the new 4000D) I see it also lacks automatic dust reduction on power up and/or down.

Labe wrote:

canon uk just announced the 2000D and 4000D £369 and £329 . Anyone short on cash can now afford a new dslr .

Just might inject some new life into the forum, yes they are basic but the 2000D has the 24mp sensor add to that the cheap 10-18,18-55 and 55-250 you get a great start for not a lot.

Anyone short on cash perhaps better served by used 550D kit off Ebay for £120 that looks like a hard-working cheap hooker on meth. Not pretty, but gets the same job well done for much less money

Those 2000D and 4000D probably be those typical high school graduation gifts that absent dads give their daughters

Stevess wrote:

realmadeira wrote:

Labe wrote:

canon uk just announced the 2000D and 4000D £369 and £329 . Anyone short on cash can now afford a new dslr .

Just might inject some new life into the forum, yes they are basic but the 2000D has the 24mp sensor add to that the cheap 10-18,18-55 and 55-250 you get a great start for not a lot.

Anyone short on cash perhaps better served by used 550D kit off Ebay for £120 that looks like a hard-working cheap hooker on meth. Not pretty, but gets the same job well done for much less money

Those 2000D and 4000D probably be those typical high school graduation gifts that absent dads give their daughters

Agreed! Except for one thing. The 2000d has some sort of point, as the replacement for the 1300d. New features, such as 24mp sensor. If imagine many begginers would love it, as they did with the previous 1200d and 1300d.

I see many 18-20 year olds that come into our shop to cash in those 1200D-1300D that they got as presents. Many of them ask if they can trade them in for models with swivel screens for use in v-logging

I fear that Canon is becoming the "K-mart" of camera makers.  Especially after seeing the specs of the Sony A7III against the 6D2 with both being in the same price range.

MikeJ9116 wrote:

I fear that Canon is becoming the "K-mart" of camera makers. Especially after seeing the specs of the Sony A7III against the 6D2 with both being in the same price range.

The thing is, it seems they are able to get away with it - in the UK, where I am, a huge proportion the general population will buy any Canon in preference to any other brand simply because it's a Canon - even if they know little about cameras. There is therefore little stimulus for Canon to innovate further (which clearly they could do, looking at that new flash gun).  In a way, perhaps that's for the best because if they did, given their control of the market at present, many smaller, more innovative brands would probably disappear as they might lose the level of sales they currently have, which would be a tragedy for those companies, their employees and (maybe to a lesser extent) the users of their products who enjoy them.  It would be a shame to lose choice in the market and it is one of the things that drives progress.

Helen wrote:

MikeJ9116 wrote:

I fear that Canon is becoming the "K-mart" of camera makers. Especially after seeing the specs of the Sony A7III against the 6D2 with both being in the same price range.

The thing is, it seems they are able to get away with it - in the UK, where I am, a huge proportion the general population will buy any Canon in preference to any other brand simply because it's a Canon - even if they know little about cameras. There is therefore little stimulus for Canon to innovate further (which clearly they could do, looking at that new flash gun). In a way, perhaps that's for the best because if they did, given their control of the market at present, many smaller, more innovative brands would probably disappear as they might lose the level of sales they currently have, which would be a tragedy for those companies, their employees and (maybe to a lesser extent) the users of their products who enjoy them. It would be a shame to lose choice in the market and it is one of the things that drives progress.

Very good point, Helen.

This is not, I repeat, NOT a flagship camera.

Canon did this for one thing only -- make it very reasonable in cost reusing and recycling older technology and flood the market at Christmas time with a heavy discount for entry level camera kits. Cheapen themselves, maybe, but as we all know, low spec camera purchases can and do lead to more high end equipment sales as we all upgrade.

Canon's plan, as I see it, is truly trying to bring a lower cost DSLR camera to the masses. IMHO, that is great. I would rather see someone buy this camera than some mid-spec P&S piece-o-cr*p that will produce mediocre results, or even worse, a cheap cell phone camera worthy of social media that we all see and we grumble and then trash the quality accordingly.

I, for one, think this is a great move on their part. Bad and outdated spec components yes, but it will still run circles around many cameras out there right now. Students learning photography will eat this model up (because of the price and features, or lack thereof), then Canon has planted the hook for future upgrade sales.

Let's put the bashing, pitchforks and torches aside for now and see if Canon is correct. Sales numbers will tell if they made the right move or a bone headed blunder.

Yes, right on point.

These cameras, just like ones in cell phones are so dumbed down,  for the rank novice use that even a trained monkey can take a picture.  Set on "A" mode or open the phone's camera app and click away.

We on this forum are more experienced photographers and can see the shortcomings of this level of camera.  John Q. Public doesn't give a crap about DPAF system, "L" glass, 12 stop dynamic range of the sensor or RAW (CR2) file format that has to be post processed.  All the general public wants to do is pull the camera out, turn it on, leave on Auto mode and click away to post on Facebook or other social media, once they figure out how to get the images off the memory card.

Bash Canons move all you want, but they are going after a different market with these models.  Like I said before, wait until the sales numbers come out before you pick up the pitchforks and torches and go after Canon.

The_WB wrote:

Yes, right on point.

These cameras, just like ones in cell phones are so dumbed down, for the rank novice use that even a trained monkey can take a picture. Set on "A" mode or open the phone's camera app and click away.

We on this forum are more experienced photographers and can see the shortcomings of this level of camera. John Q. Public doesn't give a crap about DPAF system, "L" glass, 12 stop dynamic range of the sensor or RAW (CR2) file format that has to be post processed. All the general public wants to do is pull the camera out, turn it on, leave on Auto mode and click away to post on Facebook or other social media, once they figure out how to get the images off the memory card.

Bash Canons move all you want, but they are going after a different market with these models. Like I said before, wait until the sales numbers come out before you pick up the pitchforks and torches and go after Canon.

I would say you are mostly right for lower end cameras.  However, when the price hikes north of $500 the scrutiny increases as the price increases.  People want to do the best they can to make sure they spend their money wisely.  With Google being at everyone's disposal these days they are a five second search away from reading/watching a hundred reviews on any given product.  If they watch/read the first five reviews and see the same complaints then it will impact their decision.  Even if they don't know if the complaint affects how they will use the camera.

The 6D2 is a good example of what I am referring to above.  I think it hit the shelves in late July and over the next month it got absolutely hammered in the reviews.  It was brutal.  Just a few months later (November/December) Canon was fire selling them on their refurbished web site.  It started at $2,000 MSRP for body only in July and in December your could buy the Camera with a EF 24-105mm STM lens for around $1,300.  Say what you will but I have never seen Canon drop the price so far so fast on any camera they have released in the DSLR era.  There is only one reason they did this and it was because the camera was not selling at MSRP.  The reason it was not selling had to be the bad reviews it received.  It had a built in buyer base of 6D users that mostly decided to take a pass on it because of its shortcomings which they gleaned off the review sites too.  In today's world the reviews are very important for about anything we buy.  I know people who aren't computer savvy at all that still use reviews to gauge whether a product is worth buying.  Amazon has made many people aware of using product reviews as a tool in purchasing.  Where do you think most people will buy a new camera these days?

Ralph McKenzie wrote:

Labe wrote:

canon uk just announced the 2000D and 4000D £369 and £329 . Anyone short on cash can now afford a new dslr .

Just might inject some new life into the forum, yes they are basic but the 2000D has the 24mp sensor add to that the cheap 10-18,18-55 and 55-250 you get a great start for not a lot.

Here in New Zealand they seem to be badged as the 3000d and the 1500d. I'm assuming that there are different naming conventions for the southern hemisphere. Its a practise I have always hated about camera manufacturers. The same camera with differing badges really only serves to confuse us, why they dont kept it to one name only is a bit of a mystery.

I believe the same numbers apply in Australia too.  Actually, I think yours make more sense than the Euro/UK numbers of EOS 2000D and 4000D - somehow they make it sound like the 4000D is the better one (far from it), whereas EOS 1500D sounds logically like the 1300D successor it is, and 3000D an obvious new direction offshoot.  Much clearer.

Of course, North America has that confusing Rebel naming, and for the moment they're not getting the bargain-basement model anyway.

This practice has gone on sporadically for many years - even back in the 1970s.  It is apparently a way of preventing grey marketing, or discouraging it at least.

Ralph McKenzie wrote:

Helen wrote:

Ralph McKenzie wrote:

Labe wrote:

canon uk just announced the 2000D and 4000D £369 and £329 . Anyone short on cash can now afford a new dslr .

Just might inject some new life into the forum, yes they are basic but the 2000D has the 24mp sensor add to that the cheap 10-18,18-55 and 55-250 you get a great start for not a lot.

Here in New Zealand they seem to be badged as the 3000d and the 1500d. I'm assuming that there are different naming conventions for the southern hemisphere. Its a practise I have always hated about camera manufacturers. The same camera with differing badges really only serves to confuse us, why they dont kept it to one name only is a bit of a mystery.

I believe the same numbers apply in Australia too. Actually, I think yours make more sense than the Euro/UK numbers of EOS 2000D and 4000D - somehow they make it sound like the 4000D is the better one (far from it), whereas EOS 1500D sounds logically like the 1300D successor it is, and 3000D an obvious new direction offshoot. Much clearer.

Of course, North America has that confusing Rebel naming, and for the moment they're not getting the bargain-basement model anyway.

This practice has gone on sporadically for many years - even back in the 1970s. It is apparently a way of preventing grey marketing, or discouraging it at least.

Yup you are probably right about the grey market issue.

Not a lot of specs shown on the camera shop website here as yet, but the 1500d does look to be the successor to the 1300d with quite a bit of improvement added as well, full specs will tell us more and the 3000d is precisely the type of camera that would appeal to the absolute beginner and reminds me of what Fuji did with their XA10 model which has now been discontinued.

If the 24mp model (2000D?) has the current DPAF sensor then it will be a good little camera to own.  Even if the DPAF is disabled.