Does Ricoh have a coherent product strategy for Pentax?

Started Feb 25, 2018 | Discussions
KPM2 Contributing Member • Posts: 744
Don't make you simple laughable !
5

Hello Jim in Hudson

I don't mean you, I mean those, who play here in a way the experts that it start to get simple laughable for me !

To those:  do you really think you have any competence for that ?

All what I see are post's about I do not get the camera I won't, and therefore Pentax have no strategy, or the new lens are too expensive, or my lens xy  is still not there....but there are no new lens line ?

Boys, we never had such many lens like before !!!

Don't try to analyze Pentax from you privat, egocentric, viewpoint and 'analyse' Pentax strategy is to do nothing ....it's simple not yours.

Enough!

awaldram
awaldram Forum Pro • Posts: 13,258
Re: Don't make you simple laughable !
1

KPM2 wrote:

Hello Jim in Hudson

I don't mean you, I mean those, who play here in a way the experts that it start to get simple laughable for me !

To those: do you really think you have any competence for that ?

All what I see are post's about I do not get the camera I won't, and therefore Pentax have no strategy, or the new lens are too expensive, or my lens xy is still not there....but there are no new lens line ?

Boys, we never had such many lens like before !!!

Don't try to analyze Pentax from you privat, egocentric, viewpoint and 'analyse' Pentax strategy is to do nothing ....it's simple not yours.

Enough!

I would add in addition - Pentax's main market is Asia.

The older strategies were to support that market  - coloured bodies, K-01 , Q etc etc

Don't expect any moves that may alienate that market and don't expect minority markets to be courted at all ( US being the smallest market place for Pentax).

 awaldram's gear list:awaldram's gear list
Pentax Q Pentax K-3 Pentax Q7 Pentax K-x Olympus PEN E-PM2 +17 more
petreluk Senior Member • Posts: 1,453
Re: Don't make you simple laughable !
6

KPM2 wrote:

Hello Jim in Hudson

I don't mean you, I mean those, who play here in a way the experts that it start to get simple laughable for me !

To those: do you really think you have any competence for that ?

All what I see are post's about I do not get the camera I won't, and therefore Pentax have no strategy, or the new lens are too expensive, or my lens xy is still not there....but there are no new lens line ?

Boys, we never had such many lens like before !!!

Don't try to analyze Pentax from you privat, egocentric, viewpoint and 'analyse' Pentax strategy is to do nothing ....it's simple not yours.

Enough!

Hello KPM2

The pleasures of chatting on internet forums are not to be underestimated. it's a superb way to waste time.

However, many who post to forums have a lifetime of experience behind them in all kinds of businesses,  professions and crafts, at all levels. The idea they are idiots with nothing to add is wide of the mark. They may be accountants expert in balance sheets, professional business analysts or engineers who completely understand the challenges of design and manufacture. Or shock horror they may be people who earn their living from photography and know what they need and what they don't.

That doesn't mean posters on these forums will get it right since we are all on the outside looking in and with very imperfect information. But that doesn't mean they will get it all wrong, either. I prefer to look at the balance of which way posts and ideas are flowing. What I've noticed over the past year is a change. Most folks now sense something isn't right. They aren't sure exactly what perhaps, but they're pretty uneasy about the way things are going. Call it the wisdom of crowds, but this is how tipping points often emerge, I think.

==================
https://www.flickr.com/photos/petreluk/

Alex Sarbu Veteran Member • Posts: 9,825
Re: Don't make you simple laughable !

petreluk wrote:

However, many who post to forums have a lifetime of experience behind them in all kinds of businesses, professions and crafts, at all levels. The idea they are idiots with nothing to add is wide of the mark.

I don't see anyone naming them idiots, but I see people with unknown backgrounds effectively claiming this about Ricoh Imaging's people.

And Ricoh Imaging's people have proven background - after all, they work in the camera industry.

We have a name for those with unknown background claiming to be better than those doing the job: armchair experts.

Alex

 Alex Sarbu's gear list:Alex Sarbu's gear list
Pentax K-5 IIs Pentax K-1 II Pentax smc DA 35mm F2.8 Macro Limited Pentax smc DA 21mm F3.2 AL Limited Pentax smc DA 70mm F2.4 AL Limited +7 more
KPM2 Contributing Member • Posts: 744
Re: Don't make you simple laughable !
3

Hello petreluk,

I have nothing against discussions. But, as I wrote, do some of them really discus a situation, or do they not simple negligees the existing, because they get not what they need personally, for to have argument's to claim there analyze....there is no strategy...there is no new lens line, and so on? That is a bumbling rhetoric for a discussion and as a result....we have no discussion !

I for example try at the moment to discuss the 9 AF point area at the K1, because the use is new for me (as my K1 is new for me)...no one of them you will see there...but be sure, when I had a title where I put it into the dust...they would be all there !

For one of them I made in a thread test pictures of a lens he also has....no reaction.

In an other thread I asked about how well is the new 15-30mm lens on a APS-C (because I would use it with my K1 and also with my K5)....no answer, but in this thread some members claim we have no wide angle lens...they simple have not this 15-30mm lens.

Now to the APS-C lens: we got the DA 55-300mm PLM, the fastest focusing version of this nice consumer lens...ok...it has still nothing happend. Or the DA 16-85mm...any mentions abut it from them ?

I don't think they will discuss....

There was a time on this forum, where the members talked to each others, where they walked around a problem for to find the best solution. This is still there, and also, we have here members, who share with us great pictures, or when you will know something about a lens or camera, which you will buy, you still get a lot good answers....but sadly, threads like this and threads about the end of Pentax, get the most participants.

petreluk wrote:

KPM2 wrote:

Hello Jim in Hudson

I don't mean you, I mean those, who play here in a way the experts that it start to get simple laughable for me !

To those: do you really think you have any competence for that ?

All what I see are post's about I do not get the camera I won't, and therefore Pentax have no strategy, or the new lens are too expensive, or my lens xy is still not there....but there are no new lens line ?

Boys, we never had such many lens like before !!!

Don't try to analyze Pentax from you privat, egocentric, viewpoint and 'analyse' Pentax strategy is to do nothing ....it's simple not yours.

Enough!

Hello KPM2

The pleasures of chatting on internet forums are not to be underestimated. it's a superb way to waste time.

However, many who post to forums have a lifetime of experience behind them in all kinds of businesses, professions and crafts, at all levels. The idea they are idiots with nothing to add is wide of the mark. They may be accountants expert in balance sheets, professional business analysts or engineers who completely understand the challenges of design and manufacture. Or shock horror they may be people who earn their living from photography and know what they need and what they don't.

That doesn't mean posters on these forums will get it right since we are all on the outside looking in and with very imperfect information. But that doesn't mean they will get it all wrong, either. I prefer to look at the balance of which way posts and ideas are flowing. What I've noticed over the past year is a change. Most folks now sense something isn't right. They aren't sure exactly what perhaps, but they're pretty uneasy about the way things are going. Call it the wisdom of crowds, but this is how tipping points often emerge, I think.

==================
https://www.flickr.com/photos/petreluk/

petreluk Senior Member • Posts: 1,453
Re: Don't make you simple laughable !
4

Alex Sarbu wrote:

petreluk wrote:

However, many who post to forums have a lifetime of experience behind them in all kinds of businesses, professions and crafts, at all levels. The idea they are idiots with nothing to add is wide of the mark.

I don't see anyone naming them idiots, but I see people with unknown backgrounds effectively claiming this about Ricoh Imaging's people.

And Ricoh Imaging's people have proven background - after all, they work in the camera industry.

We have a name for those with unknown background claiming to be better than those doing the job: armchair experts.

Alex

You can call them what you like, it really doesn't matter. What interests me is what they say and the balance of the way posts are flowing over time. As I suggested, call it the wisdom of crowds. Some folks on the dpr Samsung forum, for example, were stoutly maintaining the camera operation was still in business long after it had tanked. But if you looked at the balance of posts, and across more than a single forum or website, it was very clear what was going on. Best to take info from a variety of sources and form a view. I'm sure that's what many or most do here.

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Alex Sarbu Veteran Member • Posts: 9,825
Re: Don't make you simple laughable !
1

petreluk wrote:

As I suggested, call it the wisdom of crowds.

I'm afraid there is no such thing. Competence is not popularity. The best food in the world isn't McDonalds.

And for all the doom and gloom, Pentax is still here.

Alex

 Alex Sarbu's gear list:Alex Sarbu's gear list
Pentax K-5 IIs Pentax K-1 II Pentax smc DA 35mm F2.8 Macro Limited Pentax smc DA 21mm F3.2 AL Limited Pentax smc DA 70mm F2.4 AL Limited +7 more
noel2 Contributing Member • Posts: 968
Re: Don't make you simple laughable !

Alex Sarbu wrote:

petreluk wrote:

As I suggested, call it the wisdom of crowds.

I'm afraid there is no such thing. Competence is not popularity. The best food in the world isn't McDonalds.

And for all the doom and gloom, Pentax is still here.

Alex

The wisdom of the crowds keeps the river flowing.

Tributaries make sure that it reaches the ocean.

Then may everything become possible - be it Mc Donalds or something more essential...

 noel2's gear list:noel2's gear list
Pentax K-5 IIs Pentax K-1 Sony a7R III Sigma 18-250mm F3.5-6.3 DC Macro OS HSM Pentax smc DA 18-135mm F3.5-5.6ED AL [IF] DC WR +23 more
Alex Sarbu Veteran Member • Posts: 9,825
Re: Don't make you simple laughable !

noel2 wrote:

Alex Sarbu wrote:

petreluk wrote:

As I suggested, call it the wisdom of crowds.

I'm afraid there is no such thing. Competence is not popularity. The best food in the world isn't McDonalds.

And for all the doom and gloom, Pentax is still here.

Alex

The wisdom of the crowds keeps the river flowing.

"The wisdom of the crowds" would rather plug the river with garbage. As seen on this forum.

Alex

 Alex Sarbu's gear list:Alex Sarbu's gear list
Pentax K-5 IIs Pentax K-1 II Pentax smc DA 35mm F2.8 Macro Limited Pentax smc DA 21mm F3.2 AL Limited Pentax smc DA 70mm F2.4 AL Limited +7 more
noel2 Contributing Member • Posts: 968
Re: Don't make you simple laughable !
1

Alex Sarbu wrote:

noel2 wrote:

Alex Sarbu wrote:

petreluk wrote:

As I suggested, call it the wisdom of crowds.

I'm afraid there is no such thing. Competence is not popularity. The best food in the world isn't McDonalds.

And for all the doom and gloom, Pentax is still here.

Alex

The wisdom of the crowds keeps the river flowing.

"The wisdom of the crowds" would rather plug the river with garbage. As seen on this forum.

Alex

Some animals live off garbage....

 noel2's gear list:noel2's gear list
Pentax K-5 IIs Pentax K-1 Sony a7R III Sigma 18-250mm F3.5-6.3 DC Macro OS HSM Pentax smc DA 18-135mm F3.5-5.6ED AL [IF] DC WR +23 more
SlamDesi Forum Member • Posts: 85
Re: Don't make you simple laughable !
2

I'm with petreluk 100%.  I think that there are many people of a humble nature who frequent this forum.  Many have been Pentax devotees for decades.  Every time one of these "Is Pentax Going to Be Around" threads gets started, you can bet it will go on and on and on and on so, there must be some interest and passion in the discussion.  Why do I like petreluk's answers?  Well, he's civil, level-headed and doesn't have his head in the sand. While Pentax's presence may be flourishing in Asia and elsewhere, one can be hard pressed to find a camera shop in the states that carries the brand (of course, I live in Alaska so, take that with a grain of salt).  As I've said, I've enjoyed my K5-IIs a lot but, like, petreluk, I sense "something" going on - and have for years.  At least we can enjoy 'em while we've got 'em.

Tatouzou
Tatouzou Senior Member • Posts: 1,768
Re: I.Q.: mirrorless versus DSLR

Jim in Hudson wrote:

Belgarchi wrote:

Shutter shock is worse for I.Q. in a mirrorless camera than mirror-shock in a DSLR.

The mirroless world has totally solved the shutter shock problem.

AFAIK, several mirrorless cameras from Panasonic and Olympus still exhibited this problem until last year.

Entry and midlevel bodies with full mechanical shutter use a firmware trick that automatically switches to full electronic shutter when using lenses prone to shutter shock in the 1/60-1/320 range.

Which my (excellent) Panasonic G7 does when using the 14-140 zoom, but please notice that when using electronic shutter, the raw files are only 10 bits instead of 12 with mechanical shutter.

Shutter shock has been a recurrent issue underlined in dpreview reviews and, save the top tier gear, only the latest models now have new mechanical shutters with electronic first curtain, thus saving 12bits raw files.

-- hide signature --
 Tatouzou's gear list:Tatouzou's gear list
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Zvonimir Tosic
Zvonimir Tosic Senior Member • Posts: 2,844
Mirrorless solutions

Alex Sarbu wrote:

Jim in Hudson wrote:

Belgarchi wrote:

Shutter shock is worse for I.Q. in a mirrorless camera than mirror-shock in a DSLR.

The mirroless world has totally solved the shutter shock problem.

Really? Even the most recent one still has a mechanical shutter.

Alex

Mechanical shutter is required for consistent flash photography.

But regarding possible mechanical shutter shock vibrations, fighting those sideffects is really advancing rapidly, and the mirrorless now offers more than ever. For example new Fujifilm X-H1 is a marvel in that regard.

Check this link with explanation and illustrations .

Alex Sarbu Veteran Member • Posts: 9,825
Re: Don't make you simple laughable !
1

noel2 wrote:

Alex Sarbu wrote:

noel2 wrote:

Alex Sarbu wrote:

petreluk wrote:

As I suggested, call it the wisdom of crowds.

I'm afraid there is no such thing. Competence is not popularity. The best food in the world isn't McDonalds.

And for all the doom and gloom, Pentax is still here.

Alex

The wisdom of the crowds keeps the river flowing.

"The wisdom of the crowds" would rather plug the river with garbage. As seen on this forum.

Alex

Some animals live off garbage....

"100 billion flies can't be wrong. Eat s**t!".

I'd rather not go with such crowds.

Alex

 Alex Sarbu's gear list:Alex Sarbu's gear list
Pentax K-5 IIs Pentax K-1 II Pentax smc DA 35mm F2.8 Macro Limited Pentax smc DA 21mm F3.2 AL Limited Pentax smc DA 70mm F2.4 AL Limited +7 more
andrewparkoo New Member • Posts: 13
Re: Does Ricoh have a coherent product strategy for Pentax?
4

A lot of valid arguments and clearly with more resources and better decision making Pentax could have more market share.

Personally, I'd prefer a smaller full frame with small limited glass but they can't please everyone.

However, I think the death of DSLR is over hyped, although sales have obviously been hit by mirror less.

I switched to Fuji for 2 years and came back to Pentax after I noticed my old Pentax K5 photos had much more details, tones and depth to them.

Plus I found the smaller mirrorless bodies with bigger lenses to be totally unbalanced and uncomfortable to hold - hence why we now have the Fuji XH1 which is the same weight as a DSLR! - plus mirrorless battery performance sucks.

Even the EVF, which I was sold on for a while with the XT1 lost its sparkle and I prefer the clear OVFs of my Penta Prisms - and for build quality and ergonomics Pentax blows everyone out of the water.

Let's hope us Pentaxians can stick around at least as long as the dinosaurs!

tex Veteran Member • Posts: 7,722
Well, at least there's movement on 3rd party flash /nt
1
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tex_andrews, co-founder and webmaster of The LightZone Project, an all-volunteer group providing the free and open source LightZone photo editing software. Personal website: www.texandrewsart.com
"Photography is the product of complete alienation" Marcel Proust
"I would like to see photography make people despise painting until something else will make photography unbearable." Marcel Duchamp

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Teila Day
Teila Day Veteran Member • Posts: 4,782
Re: Well, at least there's movement on 3rd party flash /nt
1

Hi tex

... and that's a great thing. I'm really hoping that they're spending time not just analyzing what people want and need, but also situations that they can take advantage of in the near future.

For instance. You can't come out with a product years behind the power curve and expect to capitalize on it, unless you totally change the context.

Example: I'd would've liked to have seen Pentax take older, but still relevant technology (e.g. 80mp CCD sensor) and put that into the 645D, albeit sold at a bargain basement price. This accomplishes two three things: (1) instantly makes Pentax a digital medium format big league player because while one trades off the CMOS tech for 40mp more than what the D offered, the extra pixels makes a great trade for a lot of photographers (2) 54x40mm sensor as opposed to 44x33 and (3) Vintage lenses would augment fresh new lensesable to resolve, say 200mp. (4) Pentax glass becomes relevant in the market; does Hasselblad or Phase even offer a 400mm 645 lens yet?

... Then the 645Z could've been a CMOS upgrade with IBIS, built-in wireless capability (to fire strobes, trigger the camera's shutter, etc..), 3 or more leaf lens options..

While Fuji and Hasselblad hover around 50mp for another iteration. I'd like to see Pentax go in a totally different direction. Wow the money from my purse by giving me something I can actually use.

A. How about a 645e with a 40mp 54x40mm sensor with excellent high ISO performance?

B. How about a 645Z+ with a 100mp 54x40 sensor priced $10-15k below Hasselblad's offering?

It doesn't have to be the aforementioned exactly... but conceptually I'm talking about that kind of thing. Shake up the market stuff. Pentax needs to 'bring it'.

Best of the day to you tex

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Teila K. Day
http://teiladay.com

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