GX9 or E-PL9 or... - musing.

Hi, looking for a very small m43 camera that goes on hikes and bicycle trips and stays mostly in the bag, not in my hand. Have used the E-PL7 for some years half-contentedly until it recently broke irreparably (according to Olympus). To me the IQ was acceptable.

About my ideal camera:

• very small+light, but with good grip
• needs *no* viewfinder (repeat, no)
• articulated screen, side-hinging much preferred, with good touch-screen implementation
• built-in flash welcome (mainly as daylight fill-flash, not in dark space; too lazy + stingy to use ext. flash)
• excellent stabilization very welcome
• produces very handsome JPGs that still leave space for correction; good HDR results as raw files (such as from my smartphone)

I don't need good video, extra-fast AF, fast fps, art filters, sweep panorama, in-camera raw conversion, nice design, smart Auto-ISO. I will not use viewfinder, even if there and tiltable. I do mostly landscape, travel, a bit macro, framing always with folded-out monitor.

Things I like in pictures: super-sharp center, pleasant colours w/out correcting. I don't fret too much about CA, vignetting, a spot of luminance noise and some distortion.

My current lenses:

• Pana 12–35/2,8 Mk 1
• Pana 35–100/2,8 Mk 1
• Pana 20/1,7 Mk 1
• Close-up lens + polarizer regularly

Still lusting after:

• Laowa 7,5/2.0 or Pana-Leica 8–18
• ~42/1,2 (Pana or Oly)
• 12-32 flat zoom for less size (not sth starting with 14)

It seems that the current cameras to choose from are Oly E-PL9 and Pana GX9. I expect in my territory I can buy any of these without any lens baggage. I can wait for them. Both would be within budget. I'm not looking at other systems. GX9 right now is not on Camerasize.com, E-PL9 is.

Assumed advantages of Oly E-PL9:

• Smaller, lighter
• Really no viewfinder
• Cheaper
• Useful "super menu"

Assumed advantages Pana GX9:

• USB-charging (often carry power bank anyway)
• Tiltable built-in flash (strong enough for bounciing?)
• Nicer menu hopefully (Oly menu gives me migraine)
• Physical wheel for exposure correction (welcome)
• Noticably better stabilization (?)
• Multishot hi-res (?)
• Better IQ (?)
• Extra grip available (the way it looks it's not too bulky, it protrudes only to the front)

There's also the GX8, which has the nice side-hinging screen, but no flash and is bigger+heavier + older + and uses AA filter. GX85 has a fixed screen, so isn't an option.

Any thoughts from your side? Thanks!

h2k wrote:

There's also the GX8, which has the nice side-hinging screen, but no flash and is bigger+heavier + older + and uses AA filter. GX85 has a fixed screen, so isn't an option.

This is not true, the GX85 has a tilting screen just like the GX9 (in fact I believe the screen is the same). Note that this screen does not tilt 180 degrees down like the E-PL screen does, so it can't be used to take selfies. It only tilts 45 degrees down.

The GX9 is almost the exact same size as my Pen F, so bigger than your PL7 (i had the PL7 before my Pen F). GX9 looks intriguing......

I had an EPL7, which I sold for the GX85. While there are some generational differences, I would say overall the comparison is similar.

So, if you ask me, after owning both - there is NO question about the GX85 superiority.

Some points to take into consideration:

• The GX85 is (noticeably) bigger. It's still a small camera, but the EPL is just smaller... if that's the main consideration - go fo it. That's where the advantages of the EPL7 end.
• The main difference, which I can NOT stress enough, is ergonomics. The EPL7 is a "Compact" camera in terms of handling. There is no 2nd control dial, and everything is done with insanely fidgety buttons. It's just NOT FUN to use (unless you shoot only in full auto). 
• The GX85 has a better grip and it can actually handle larger lenses too. I used it with the 35-100/2.8 for a few hours once and it was fine. The EPL with the 35-100/2.8 was very uncomfortable. 
• I know you dismiss the EVF. I did too. But it's sometimes handy to have it. 
  
• In-body USB Charging (not sure how the EPL9 is, but the EPL7 did not have it) - super convenient. Won't buy a camera without it. 

Bottom line, if you can "take the hit" on the size (it's really not a big hit), then you will just enjoy the GX85 or GX9 so much more....

You got some rather big lenses(by MFT standard) to warrant using a small body to save space IMO.

Since you do lots of hiking and biking, why not consider a slightly larger model with weather seal? This should provide perfect synergy with your f2.8 zooms in term of both handling and overall protection. E-M5ii used is pretty reasonable in price ATM, while still being reasonably compact

h2k wrote:

Hi, looking for a very small m43 camera that goes on hikes and bicycle trips and stays mostly in the bag, not in my hand. Have used the E-PL7 for some years half-contentedly until it recently broke irreparably (according to Olympus). To me the IQ was acceptable.

About my ideal camera:

• very small+light, but with good grip
• needs *no* viewfinder (repeat, no)
• articulated screen, side-hinging much preferred, with good touch-screen implementation
• built-in flash welcome (mainly as daylight fill-flash, not in dark space; too lazy + stingy to use ext. flash)
• excellent stabilization very welcome
• produces very handsome JPGs that still leave space for correction; good HDR results as raw files (such as from my smartphone)

I don't need good video, extra-fast AF, fast fps, art filters, sweep panorama, in-camera raw conversion, nice design, smart Auto-ISO. I will not use viewfinder, even if there and tiltable. I do mostly landscape, travel, a bit macro, framing always with folded-out monitor.

Things I like in pictures: super-sharp center, pleasant colours w/out correcting. I don't fret too much about CA, vignetting, a spot of luminance noise and some distortion.

My current lenses:

• Pana 12–35/2,8 Mk 1
• Pana 35–100/2,8 Mk 1
• Pana 20/1,7 Mk 1
• Close-up lens + polarizer regularly

Still lusting after:

• Laowa 7,5/2.0 or Pana-Leica 8–18
• ~42/1,2 (Pana or Oly)
• 12-32 flat zoom for less size (not sth starting with 14)

It seems that the current cameras to choose from are Oly E-PL9 and Pana GX9. I expect in my territory I can buy any of these without any lens baggage. I can wait for them. Both would be within budget. I'm not looking at other systems. GX9 right now is not on Camerasize.com, E-PL9 is.

Assumed advantages of Oly E-PL9:

• Smaller, lighter
• Really no viewfinder
• Cheaper
• Useful "super menu"

Assumed advantages Pana GX9:

• USB-charging (often carry power bank anyway)
• Tiltable built-in flash (strong enough for bounciing?)
• Nicer menu hopefully (Oly menu gives me migraine)
• Physical wheel for exposure correction (welcome)
• Noticably better stabilization (?)
• Multishot hi-res (?)
• Better IQ (?)
• Extra grip available (the way it looks it's not too bulky, it protrudes only to the front)

There's also the GX8, which has the nice side-hinging screen, but no flash and is bigger+heavier + older + and uses AA filter. GX85 has a fixed screen, so isn't an option.

Any thoughts from your side? Thanks!

Phew... hard question.

No obvious item on your whish-list makes any camera the obvious choice.

Thoughts:

USB charging should be standard on all cameras but for the Olympus I bought a small light USB charger on Aliexpress that does all my charging now. Weighs next to nothing.

You are comfortable with image quality so forget about multi-image-high res. Some day it will be standard.  Today is not that day.   Grab a good lens and get your quality from there.

Stabilisation is great but it has its limitations. Even 'great' stabilisation can't help you if you point all over the place.
If you manage to hold your camera still ... then 'good' stabilisation might be good enough.
Stabilisation is supposed to gain you a couple of stops of extra light, but it's not magic.
Most often I trade in my zoomlens for a prime, and get two stops of extra light, just like that.

Viewfinder:  I do have one.    I'd get along fine without.   
It's no a deal-breaker for me but I'd never state that I would not use it.   If the light is bright I swallow my pride and use the EVF to survey the site (this rhymes, therefore it is true).
Not having an EVF cuts down size&cost considerably, but if it's there, I'll sometimes use it.

In your case I'd probably stick with Olympus because it's cheaper.
It has no viewfinder (which you adamantly state you will not use).  This cuts down on size and cost.
In fact, I'd pick up a PL-8 because there's not much difference with the PL-9 and it's going to be cheaper when the new model hits the shelves.

The image quality of the PL-9 is not going to beat the PL-8 anyway.  Same sensor, same everything, just newer software.

Image quality depends very much on glass, so I'd get a good lens ... which I could afford because I just saved some on the camera.