Who understands Olympus prices?

So, Olympus entry level camera comes with a "long in the tooth" 16Mpix sensor and a built-in battery and its so-so kit zoom for a whooping price of 699E.

Just after Fuji released its entry level camera with a "state of art" 24Mpix APS-C and phase+contrast detect AF and a OIS lens for 599E

And with the similarly speced GX850 selling for 450-500E with a much better kit lens.

And a Canon 24 Mpix APS-C M100 +  kit lens at an introductory price of 599E

Difficult to understand what makes the E-PL9 so expensive?

Any idea?

Maybe, by overcharging for their cameras and lenses, Olympus can say that they aren't selling enough, so that it gives them an excuse to withdraw from the market and concentrate on their core business of selling microscopes and medical equipment!!!

Peter Del

Pixnat2 wrote:

Difficult to understand what makes the E-PL9 so expensive?

Any idea?

Olympus think they can sell it at that price?

It's a fashion item. It's not priced based on adding up its technical features. It's not aimed at people like you (or me).

I don't buy iPhones because I think they are overpriced compared to devices that are alternatives (for me). Millions of people do, though.

Olympus presumably feel the alternatives you list aren't really competitors in the minds of actual likely purchasers - and who knows, maybe they are correct. I assume they know more about pricing and marketing cameras than me.

Paul

Soulhand wrote:

Pixnat2 wrote:

Difficult to understand what makes the E-PL9 so expensive?

Any idea?

Olympus think they can sell it at that price?

It's a fashion item.

I don't think so. It's an entry level camera made to attract P&S upgraders.

It's not priced based on adding up its technical features. It's not aimed at people like you (or me).

see above

I don't buy iPhones because I think they are overpriced compared to devices that are alternatives (for me). Millions of people do, though.

Except that Olympus is not Apple and that iPhones are eating the market of that kind of camera.

Olympus presumably feel the alternatives you list aren't really competitors in the minds of actual likely purchasers - and who knows, maybe they are correct.

I don't see many cosmetic differences between the E-PL9 and X-A5, for example.

I assume they know more about pricing and marketing cameras than me.

I really wonder if they do

Paul

jwilliams wrote:

Soulhand wrote:

I don't buy iPhones because I think they are overpriced compared to devices that are alternatives (for me). Millions of people do, though.

Sorry but Olympus is no Apple. Not even close. Most profitable company on the planet vs almost bankrupt recently. Their products are no comparison either.

Apple may indeed be overpriced, but there is at least a high quality company behind the product.

One can take analogies too far.

I didn't intend to claim Olympus was like Apple. I did intend to claim the E-PL9 is designed to be an "fashionable" /design-led camera and will succeed or die on attracting buyers who want that sort of thing, and not buyers who decide based on a specifications sheet.

In this way (but not any more than that) it is like the iPhone

Paul

Pixnat2 wrote:

So, Olympus entry level camera comes with a "long in the tooth" 16Mpix sensor and a built-in battery and its so-so kit zoom for a whooping price of 699E.

Just after Fuji released its entry level camera with a "state of art" 24Mpix APS-C and phase+contrast detect AF and a OIS lens for 599E

And with the similarly speced GX850 selling for 450-500E with a much better kit lens.

And a Canon 24 Mpix APS-C M100 + kit lens at an introductory price of 599E

Difficult to understand what makes the E-PL9 so expensive?yy

Any idea?

It is what is. If you don’t like it, don’t buy it. Not trying to be snarky but your opening paragraph set the tone here.

Pixnat2 wrote:

It's a fashion item.

I don't think so. It's an entry level camera made to attract P&S upgraders.

That's what you claim, maybe. I doubt it, personally. Some reviewers seem to agree:

"Whereas the OM-D line of mirrorless cameras is targeted at the enthusiast and professional photographer, the PEN range has always been designed to appeal to the more fashion-conscious snapper, and those who want to take nice-looking images without getting too bogged down with a host of settings."

http://www.techradar.com/reviews/olympus-pen-e-pl9

Or if you read Olympus's press release, it's cleaar they're aiming at smartphone owners upgrading, not people with P&S cameras. See the last part of https://www.ephotozine.com/article/olympus-pen-e-pl9-announced-31926

Except that Olympus is not Apple and that iPhones are eating the market of that kind of camera.

True, but not relevant to my point. It's about being design/looks-led, not specification-led, not about the size of the company.

Olympus presumably feel the alternatives you list aren't really competitors in the minds of actual likely purchasers - and who knows, maybe they are correct.

I don't see many cosmetic differences between the E-PL9 and X-A5, for example.

Also true, they're quite close (I think I mistook which Fuji it was before). In the UK at least, also quite close on price. As I suggest above any spec differences will probably be lost on prospective purchasers and it will come down to how it looks/feels. Although the actually usable 4K of the E-pl9 might swing it for some

I assume they know more about pricing and marketing cameras than me.

I really wonder if they do

It's easy to be an armchair marketeer. I'll go with the people whose livelihood depends on getting it right.

Pixnat2 wrote:

Soulhand wrote:

Pixnat2 wrote:

Difficult to understand what makes the E-PL9 so expensive?

Any idea?

Olympus think they can sell it at that price?

It's a fashion item.

I don't think so. It's an entry level camera made to attract P&S upgraders.

It's not priced based on adding up its technical features. It's not aimed at people like you (or me).

see above

I don't buy iPhones because I think they are overpriced compared to devices that are alternatives (for me). Millions of people do, though.

Except that Olympus is not Apple and that iPhones are eating the market of that kind of camera.

Olympus presumably feel the alternatives you list aren't really competitors in the minds of actual likely purchasers - and who knows, maybe they are correct.

I don't see many cosmetic differences between the E-PL9 and X-A5, for example.

I assume they know more about pricing and marketing cameras than me.

I really wonder if they do

Paul

You are forgetting the Japan and Asian market which has different perspectives than the US and European market. The EPL series certainly look a ton more "fashionable" than the M100 or the X-A5.

I believe Olympus is doing quite well in those markets and they are probably the only markets where the entry level cameras are doing decently well (likely the same reason why Panasonic keeps releasing Japan only updates for the GF series, like the GF8 and GF10). I doubt they sold much in the US and European market (and they can always price drop later).

gary0319 wrote:

Pixnat2 wrote:

So, Olympus entry level camera comes with a "long in the tooth" 16Mpix sensor and a built-in battery and its so-so kit zoom for a whooping price of 699E.

Just after Fuji released its entry level camera with a "state of art" 24Mpix APS-C and phase+contrast detect AF and a OIS lens for 599E

And with the similarly speced GX850 selling for 450-500E with a much better kit lens.

And a Canon 24 Mpix APS-C M100 + kit lens at an introductory price of 599E

Difficult to understand what makes the E-PL9 so expensive?yy

Any idea?

It is what is. If you don’t like it, don’t buy it. Not trying to be snarky but your opening paragraph set the tone here.

I'm not the target of this camera, but I'm a former Olympus owner and a potential Olympus customer.

It seems that Olympus is pushing prices recently, and that they do it even with their entry-level products.

With so much competition in each segment, it's difficult to understand.

Suppose you are a P&S user willing to upgrade : would you chose a cheaper X-A5 with top-class IQ or a more expensive E-PL9 with an outdated sensor?

And if you want m4/3 badly, Panasonic has very competitive cameras.

Strange...

JakeJY wrote:

Pixnat2 wrote:

Soulhand wrote:

Pixnat2 wrote:

Difficult to understand what makes the E-PL9 so expensive?

Any idea?

Olympus think they can sell it at that price?

It's a fashion item.

I don't think so. It's an entry level camera made to attract P&S upgraders.

It's not priced based on adding up its technical features. It's not aimed at people like you (or me).

see above

I don't buy iPhones because I think they are overpriced compared to devices that are alternatives (for me). Millions of people do, though.

Except that Olympus is not Apple and that iPhones are eating the market of that kind of camera.

Olympus presumably feel the alternatives you list aren't really competitors in the minds of actual likely purchasers - and who knows, maybe they are correct.

I don't see many cosmetic differences between the E-PL9 and X-A5, for example.

I assume they know more about pricing and marketing cameras than me.

I really wonder if they do

Paul

You are forgetting the Japan and Asian market which has different perspectives than the US and European market. The EPL series certainly look a ton more "fashionable" than the M100 or the X-A5.

I believe Olympus is doing quite well in those markets and they are probably the only markets where the entry level cameras are doing decently well (likely the same reason why Panasonic keeps releasing Japan only updates for the GF series, like the GF8 and GF10). I doubt they sold much in the US and European market (and they can always price drop later).

Thanks for your answer. I think you nailed it. Japanese hipsters are probably the main target of this camera.

Moreover, the E-PL9 won't be sold to US, so you're probably right.

Pixnat2 wrote:

gary0319 wrote:

Pixnat2 wrote:

So, Olympus entry level camera comes with a "long in the tooth" 16Mpix sensor and a built-in battery and its so-so kit zoom for a whooping price of 699E.

Just after Fuji released its entry level camera with a "state of art" 24Mpix APS-C and phase+contrast detect AF and a OIS lens for 599E

And with the similarly speced GX850 selling for 450-500E with a much better kit lens.

And a Canon 24 Mpix APS-C M100 + kit lens at an introductory price of 599E

Difficult to understand what makes the E-PL9 so expensive?yy

Any idea?

It is what is. If you don’t like it, don’t buy it. Not trying to be snarky but your opening paragraph set the tone here.

I'm not the target of this camera, but I'm a former Olympus owner and a potential Olympus customer.

It seems that Olympus is pushing prices recently, and that they do it even with their entry-level products.

Some people will by the most expensive, because it is the most expensive. So for those folks Olympus would be a logical choice. Not a bad market to target, while the competition is slugging it out in the trenches

With so much competition in each segment, it's difficult to understand.

I'm sure that Olympus understands quite well.

Suppose you are a P&S user willing to upgrade : would you chose a cheaper X-A5 with top-class IQ or a more expensive E-PL9 with an outdated sensor?

Just because the camera may have 16mpx does not necessarily mean it is outdated. Maybe a new generation of 16mpx sensors from Sony that include technology not previously offered?? Not all 16mpx sensors are 5 years old. Hell, the 20 mpx Sony sensor in my E-M1 II is not the same as the one in my Pen F.......or, I'll bet,  the one in the GX8, or G9. So ,I'll bet that if the new E-M5 III comes with a 16mpx sensor, it will not be anywhere close to the ones that preceded it, and certainly not outdated.

But, if one only buys on megapixel count and/or price, they might well be disappointed.

And if you want m4/3 badly, Panasonic has very competitive cameras.

Strange...

-- hide signature --

Cheers,
Frederic
http://www.azurphoto.com/

Pixnat2 wrote:

So, Olympus entry level camera comes with a "long in the tooth" 16Mpix sensor and a built-in battery and its so-so kit zoom for a whooping price of 699E.

Just after Fuji released its entry level camera with a "state of art" 24Mpix APS-C and phase+contrast detect AF and a OIS lens for 599E

And with the similarly speced GX850 selling for 450-500E with a much better kit lens.

And a Canon 24 Mpix APS-C M100 + kit lens at an introductory price of 599E

Difficult to understand what makes the E-PL9 so expensive?

Any idea?

The target market for the EPL line is mostly Japan. And mostly women. We can laugh as much as we want but in japan, Olympus sells more mirrorleaa cameras than any other manufacturer. Including sony. Let alone Fuji.

Apparently in japan they ARE an "iPhone"

-- hide signature --

Cheers,
Frederic
http://www.azurphoto.com/

Pixnat2 wrote:

Difficult to understand what makes the E-PL9 so expensive?

Any idea?

Bottom line, would be my guess.

I think they simply calculated that if they sell 20% less of those cameras at the higher price, but get 40% more profit on them, then that is a move worth taking.

Not that I think it's a particularly good thing. But I really couldn't care less. I'm not gonna buy it no matter how much or little it costs. Neither would you, am I right?

So yeah, it's 100 EUR more expensive than the E-PL8 with no inherently good reason to really justify that price hike. Like E-M10.3, it is not a straightforward upgrade. It's more of an evolution of the E-PL formula. Dumbing down and feature cuts for the sake of "convenience" and aimed at casual snapper. Now with less room to accommodate photographic growth of its owner. Probably not a big deal for this kind of camera, but still a bummer, I think.

But here's the thing. This camera is not aimed at enthusiasts who meticulously research cameras and seek the best features.

I think Olympus counts on the design and appearance to carry the sales of this camera. And I think they might be onto something. Fuji X-A5 might be a great value for money, but it's just unremarkable looking (if not outright ugly) compared to E-PL9.

I really think Olympus designer nailed it with E-PL9.

Also, has nobody noticed the marketing message here? Someone at Olympus has been paying attention. This is probably the best press release announcing a new camera I saw in a long time. Compare it to the one for E-PL8 or even the recent X-A5.

Finally someone there realised that marketing message for this kind of camera is not about impressing with specs. The people that read specs don't care about a camera like this.

I think if Olympus can reach their target audience with their marketing message, E-PL9 will do just fine. It's the best looking E-PL body to date, and that's a good start