Loxia 25 on its way...

Started 11 months ago | Discussions
Steve W Veteran Member • Posts: 4,150
Re: What's the advantage of this duplication?
1

silentstorm wrote:

Zeiss Batis & Loxia are already high quality range of lenses. Batis 25mm is F2, rumoured Loxia 25mm is F2.4. Batis has AF & a tad faster.

Let's look at the duplicated 85mm. The Batis has AF, is lighter, is cheaper, is faster at F1.8 & has IS. Loxia is heavier, more costly, no IS & slower F2.4

Totally doesn't make sense to me to duplicate another 25mm when optics qualities are very high for both, & of the same brand.

I'm sure the Loxia 25 will be a superb but I won't buy it immediately because like so many others I am happy with my Loxia 21, 35, and 50.

What excites me most is the willingness to duplicate a focal length between Batis and Loxia. This gives me hope that some day I will see a 35mm f/1.8 or f/2 Batis which I truly long for. I own the current 4 Batis lenses and would be very happy to add a 5th. Now I will just have to wait and see.

Steve W

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biza43 Veteran Member • Posts: 8,578
Re: What's the advantage of this duplication?
2

silentstorm wrote:

Zeiss Batis & Loxia are already high quality range of lenses. Batis 25mm is F2, rumoured Loxia 25mm is F2.4. Batis has AF & a tad faster.

Sure, but the key difference is: one line is AF, another is MF. Some people do not require the former, and prefer the latter. Also, some prefer a homogenous and consistent lens line up like the Loxia, e.g. for video, with a same size filter.

Let's look at the duplicated 85mm. The Batis has AF, is lighter, is cheaper, is faster at F1.8 & has IS. Loxia is heavier, more costly, no IS & slower F2.4

Sure. But after using both, I much prefer the Loxia 85.

Totally doesn't make sense to me to duplicate another 25mm when optics qualities are very high for both, & of the same brand.

Ok, but it makes sense for many others.

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biza43 Veteran Member • Posts: 8,578
Re: What's the advantage of this duplication?

Andre JF wrote:

silentstorm wrote:

Zeiss Batis & Loxia are already high quality range of lenses. Batis 25mm is F2, rumoured Loxia 25mm is F2.4. Batis has AF & a tad faster.

Let's look at the duplicated 85mm. The Batis has AF, is lighter, is cheaper, is faster at F1.8 & has IS. Loxia is heavier, more costly, no IS & slower F2.4

Totally doesn't make sense to me to duplicate another 25mm when optics qualities are very high for both, & of the same brand.

The loxia series lenses are more conseptual than other lens series.

The size, the feel, the recognisable design. All are high end compact all manual lenses with the finest manual handling. All lenses have same 52mm filter diameter, smoth manual focus and aperture. They have very high microcontrast and clean color. The character of the lens can be folowed from lens to lens, the way the 21mm render the image can be recognised in the other lenses, all the way up to the 85mm. The classic Zeiss 3D popp. These are qualitys the Loxia users want.

A lot of Loxia users have becomed Loxia entusiast after trying out one of the lenses for themselves. The way it feels and handles is unike, if you like it the small but surprisingly heavy lens hard to resist. These are quality lenses for entusiast, and this is something Zeiss knows all about how to do.

I dont think it matters one bit that there is another 25mm Zeiss lens, its not a Loxia, and for many peoples it is Loxia they want. And there will probably be more Loxias.

Three lens setup is a classic choice. Whith the new 25mm we can se theese Loxia setup: 21 35 85, and now even 25 50 85 ... Compact, light, high quality setup, enough to cover most of the everyday need for many photographers.

I dont know if this answer your question, but this is my reason to love the Zeiss Loxia lenses.

Indeed. I can recognize myself in many of these points. The new 25 f2.4 will be a nice companion to the 85 f2.4, In the past, I have shot a lot while traveling with a 28mm/85mm pair of primes. Today, 24mm or 25mm is more in line with the "wider" view many have of the world, especially for video, which the Loxia addresses.

There is still something to be said about shooting manually with a nice set of consistent lenses.

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kamituel
kamituel Senior Member • Posts: 1,121
Re: What's the advantage of this duplication?

That's a nice reply. But I'm sure the Zeiss signature qualities can also be found in the Batis series. I am also sure that the character of the Batis can be followed from 18mm to 85mm.

It is just me, that I find Zeiss wasting their resources with duplicating FL.

its not one of the things, its the entire consept. Try to compare manual focus between Loxia and Batis... If you find manual focus important, the choice is easy.

I don't think a choice between Batis and Loxia is purely a choice between MF and AF, or classic MF vs focus by wire.

Other important things: Loxias have declickable aperture ring (for video), different aperture blade setup (straight, even number - oh, those sunstars!), standarized filter thread size.

And even for people who use MF a lot, I'm not sure the choice is that easy. From my experience with Loxia 21 and Batis 85, I actually prefer focus by wire for tripod, slow landscape work. It's easier to fine adjust focus. Especially in gloves, or with fingers numb from cold.

It's surely a matter of personal preference, but I don't think it's as obvious as "MF -> Loxia; AF -> Batis".

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TN Args
TN Args Veteran Member • Posts: 6,879
Re: What's the advantage of this duplication?

Steve W wrote:

silentstorm wrote:

Zeiss Batis & Loxia are already high quality range of lenses. Batis 25mm is F2, rumoured Loxia 25mm is F2.4. Batis has AF & a tad faster.

Let's look at the duplicated 85mm. The Batis has AF, is lighter, is cheaper, is faster at F1.8 & has IS. Loxia is heavier, more costly, no IS & slower F2.4

Totally doesn't make sense to me to duplicate another 25mm when optics qualities are very high for both, & of the same brand.

I'm sure the Loxia 25 will be a superb but I won't buy it immediately because like so many others I am happy with my Loxia 21, 35, and 50.

What excites me most is the willingness to duplicate a focal length between Batis and Loxia. This gives me hope that some day I will see a 35mm f/1.8 or f/2 Batis which I truly long for. I own the current 4 Batis lenses and would be very happy to add a 5th.

Remind me again why to choose a Loxia over a Batis?

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kamituel
kamituel Senior Member • Posts: 1,121
Re: What's the advantage of this duplication?
1

TN Args wrote:

Steve W wrote:

silentstorm wrote:

Zeiss Batis & Loxia are already high quality range of lenses. Batis 25mm is F2, rumoured Loxia 25mm is F2.4. Batis has AF & a tad faster.

Let's look at the duplicated 85mm. The Batis has AF, is lighter, is cheaper, is faster at F1.8 & has IS. Loxia is heavier, more costly, no IS & slower F2.4

Totally doesn't make sense to me to duplicate another 25mm when optics qualities are very high for both, & of the same brand.

I'm sure the Loxia 25 will be a superb but I won't buy it immediately because like so many others I am happy with my Loxia 21, 35, and 50.

What excites me most is the willingness to duplicate a focal length between Batis and Loxia. This gives me hope that some day I will see a 35mm f/1.8 or f/2 Batis which I truly long for. I own the current 4 Batis lenses and would be very happy to add a 5th.

Remind me again why to choose a Loxia over a Batis?

- same filter size for each Loxia lens

- declickable aperture ring

- rounded aperture blades, even number of those (gives more pronounced, visually appealing sun stars)

- smaller size (but a bit heavier)

- classic focus ring (not focus by wire) might be preferred. For instance, I think folks often like it for astro work - where they would prefocus at infinity, then tape over focus ring to keep it from moving, and have the lens ready for the shoot at night.

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BBQue Senior Member • Posts: 7,958
Loxia 28 would make more sense

let’s hope the rumor is false (as they usually are) and we will see L28 instead.

biza43 Veteran Member • Posts: 8,578
Re: What's the advantage of this duplication?
2

TN Args wrote:

Steve W wrote:

silentstorm wrote:

Zeiss Batis & Loxia are already high quality range of lenses. Batis 25mm is F2, rumoured Loxia 25mm is F2.4. Batis has AF & a tad faster.

Let's look at the duplicated 85mm. The Batis has AF, is lighter, is cheaper, is faster at F1.8 & has IS. Loxia is heavier, more costly, no IS & slower F2.4

Totally doesn't make sense to me to duplicate another 25mm when optics qualities are very high for both, & of the same brand.

I'm sure the Loxia 25 will be a superb but I won't buy it immediately because like so many others I am happy with my Loxia 21, 35, and 50.

What excites me most is the willingness to duplicate a focal length between Batis and Loxia. This gives me hope that some day I will see a 35mm f/1.8 or f/2 Batis which I truly long for. I own the current 4 Batis lenses and would be very happy to add a 5th.

Remind me again why to choose a Loxia over a Batis?

Why don't you just go back and read the several reasons some folks here already wrote about preferring one over the other? Much more productive and positive than your provocative attitude.

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silentstorm Senior Member • Posts: 1,050
Re: What's the advantage of this duplication?

biza43 wrote:

silentstorm wrote:

Zeiss Batis & Loxia are already high quality range of lenses. Batis 25mm is F2, rumoured Loxia 25mm is F2.4. Batis has AF & a tad faster.

Sure, but the key difference is: one line is AF, another is MF. Some people do not require the former, and prefer the latter. Also, some prefer a homogenous and consistent lens line up like the Loxia, e.g. for video, with a same size filter.

There are already so many people finding changing lens in the field a hassle. Now there's one more hassle to deal with, change filter, becos' the filters are shared.

Scenario: Shooting video in some Africa wildlife sanctuary. Need to change lens. But wait, I also need to use that same filter from the previous lens. The only advantage is I see is getting 1 set of filters & sharing, provided the other lenses are not using the same filter.

Depends on how you see it. Cost savings vs speed & convenience. I can have 35mm with 55mm ND on & a 50mm with 67mm ND on. I gain speed when swapping the lens, no need to unscrew & rescrew, & deal with potential stuck filters thus delaying more time.

I get the personal preference thing. However, having an AF lens, at anytime, I can switch off AF & do MF. There are already so many lenses focus by wire, so users can simply adapt like how it always has been. For me, its no biggie. But having a MF lens, there's no option for AF.

terryreid
terryreid Senior Member • Posts: 1,737
Re: What's the advantage of this duplication?

silentstorm wrote:

biza43 wrote:

silentstorm wrote:

Zeiss Batis & Loxia are already high quality range of lenses. Batis 25mm is F2, rumoured Loxia 25mm is F2.4. Batis has AF & a tad faster.

Sure, but the key difference is: one line is AF, another is MF. Some people do not require the former, and prefer the latter. Also, some prefer a homogenous and consistent lens line up like the Loxia, e.g. for video, with a same size filter.

There are already so many people finding changing lens in the field a hassle. Now there's one more hassle to deal with, change filter, becos' the filters are shared.

Scenario: Shooting video in some Africa wildlife sanctuary. Need to change lens. But wait, I also need to use that same filter from the previous lens. The only advantage is I see is getting 1 set of filters & sharing, provided the other lenses are not using the same filter.

Depends on how you see it. Cost savings vs speed & convenience. I can have 35mm with 55mm ND on & a 50mm with 67mm ND on. I gain speed when swapping the lens, no need to unscrew & rescrew, & deal with potential stuck filters thus delaying more time.

Anybody ever thought about using a zoom lens? It has been proven that some of todays zooms equal and better some of the primes. If the 12-24G and 16-35 GM are not good enough I think the problem lies between some people ears not the lenses.

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silentstorm Senior Member • Posts: 1,050
Re: What's the advantage of this duplication?

terryreid wrote:

Anybody ever thought about using a zoom lens? It has been proven that some of todays zooms equal and better some of the primes. If the 12-24G and 16-35 GM are not good enough I think the problem lies between some people ears not the lenses.

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-Terry

Well, this thread is about a new Loxia 25mm rumor. So the context of the discussion is  naturally Loxia prime lens. And my take on this is that it's a waste of resources for Zeiss to duplicate same FL.

biza43 Veteran Member • Posts: 8,578
Re: What's the advantage of this duplication?

silentstorm wrote:

biza43 wrote:

silentstorm wrote:

Zeiss Batis & Loxia are already high quality range of lenses. Batis 25mm is F2, rumoured Loxia 25mm is F2.4. Batis has AF & a tad faster.

Sure, but the key difference is: one line is AF, another is MF. Some people do not require the former, and prefer the latter. Also, some prefer a homogenous and consistent lens line up like the Loxia, e.g. for video, with a same size filter.

There are already so many people finding changing lens in the field a hassle. Now there's one more hassle to deal with, change filter, becos' the filters are shared.

Scenario: Shooting video in some Africa wildlife sanctuary. Need to change lens. But wait, I also need to use that same filter from the previous lens. The only advantage is I see is getting 1 set of filters & sharing, provided the other lenses are not using the same filter.

Well, just buy another filter. After all, if you have 2 lenses with different size, you need 2 filters anyway.

Depends on how you see it. Cost savings vs speed & convenience. I can have 35mm with 55mm ND on & a 50mm with 67mm ND on. I gain speed when swapping the lens, no need to unscrew & rescrew, & deal with potential stuck filters thus delaying more time.

Well, check this scenario: I have a 52mm Lee filter (or other system) on my Loxia 21mm lens, all set up with GND; I want to use same filter in my Loxia 50mm lens. Rather than buying another Lee filter adapter of different size (or fuddle with step up rings), I can just unmounts from one lens and mount on the other. Done.

I get the personal preference thing. However, having an AF lens, at anytime, I can switch off AF & do MF. There are already so many lenses focus by wire, so users can simply adapt like how it always has been. For me, its no biggie. But having a MF lens, there's no option for AF.

I have been using focus by wire for 20 years. Nothing beats a dedicated and proper MF ring. For me. And as I wrote before, some people prefer proper MF. Like me.

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biza43 Veteran Member • Posts: 8,578
Re: What's the advantage of this duplication?

terryreid wrote:

silentstorm wrote:

biza43 wrote:

silentstorm wrote:

Zeiss Batis & Loxia are already high quality range of lenses. Batis 25mm is F2, rumoured Loxia 25mm is F2.4. Batis has AF & a tad faster.

Sure, but the key difference is: one line is AF, another is MF. Some people do not require the former, and prefer the latter. Also, some prefer a homogenous and consistent lens line up like the Loxia, e.g. for video, with a same size filter.

There are already so many people finding changing lens in the field a hassle. Now there's one more hassle to deal with, change filter, becos' the filters are shared.

Scenario: Shooting video in some Africa wildlife sanctuary. Need to change lens. But wait, I also need to use that same filter from the previous lens. The only advantage is I see is getting 1 set of filters & sharing, provided the other lenses are not using the same filter.

Depends on how you see it. Cost savings vs speed & convenience. I can have 35mm with 55mm ND on & a 50mm with 67mm ND on. I gain speed when swapping the lens, no need to unscrew & rescrew, & deal with potential stuck filters thus delaying more time.

Anybody ever thought about using a zoom lens? It has been proven that some of todays zooms equal and better some of the primes. If the 12-24G and 16-35 GM are not good enough I think the problem lies between some people ears not the lenses.

Sure, used zooms to get the job done since 1990, when I started taking photos. They offer great convenience, and are for sure good enough. But I prefer not to spend EUR 3,000 on a GM zoom, when I don't need it. In my Canon days, I got tired of lugging around a 16-38 f2.8 L zoom with 82mm filter diameter. The GM is about the same.

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holin Contributing Member • Posts: 848
Re: What's the advantage of this duplication?

silentstorm wrote:

biza43 wrote:

silentstorm wrote:

Zeiss Batis & Loxia are already high quality range of lenses. Batis 25mm is F2, rumoured Loxia 25mm is F2.4. Batis has AF & a tad faster.

Sure, but the key difference is: one line is AF, another is MF. Some people do not require the former, and prefer the latter. Also, some prefer a homogenous and consistent lens line up like the Loxia, e.g. for video, with a same size filter.

There are already so many people finding changing lens in the field a hassle. Now there's one more hassle to deal with, change filter, becos' the filters are shared.

Scenario: Shooting video in some Africa wildlife sanctuary. Need to change lens. But wait, I also need to use that same filter from the previous lens. The only advantage is I see is getting 1 set of filters & sharing, provided the other lenses are not using the same filter.

Depends on how you see it. Cost savings vs speed & convenience. I can have 35mm with 55mm ND on & a 50mm with 67mm ND on. I gain speed when swapping the lens, no need to unscrew & rescrew, & deal with potential stuck filters thus delaying more time.

I get the personal preference thing. However, having an AF lens, at anytime, I can switch off AF & do MF. There are already so many lenses focus by wire, so users can simply adapt like how it always has been. For me, its no biggie. But having a MF lens, there's no option for AF.

The advantage of lenses having the same size (more or less) and filter size is more pronounced when you have a video rig with more parts that need adjustment when changing the lens.

Mathieu18
Mathieu18 Senior Member • Posts: 4,157
Re: What's the advantage of this duplication?

silentstorm wrote:

I get the personal preference thing. However, having an AF lens, at anytime, I can switch off AF & do MF. There are already so many lenses focus by wire, so users can simply adapt like how it always has been. For me, its no biggie. But having a MF lens, there's no option for AF.

So it’s not the lens for you. But plenty much prefer real MF or loathe focus by wire. Some people also never shoot something that requires AF. Your point it valid for you, and Batis is the right choice, but that doesn’t negate the validity of Loxia as a choice for others.

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Dan_168 Veteran Member • Posts: 8,484
Re: What's the advantage of this duplication?

terryreid wrote:

silentstorm wrote:

biza43 wrote:

silentstorm wrote:

Zeiss Batis & Loxia are already high quality range of lenses. Batis 25mm is F2, rumoured Loxia 25mm is F2.4. Batis has AF & a tad faster.

Sure, but the key difference is: one line is AF, another is MF. Some people do not require the former, and prefer the latter. Also, some prefer a homogenous and consistent lens line up like the Loxia, e.g. for video, with a same size filter.

There are already so many people finding changing lens in the field a hassle. Now there's one more hassle to deal with, change filter, becos' the filters are shared.

Scenario: Shooting video in some Africa wildlife sanctuary. Need to change lens. But wait, I also need to use that same filter from the previous lens. The only advantage is I see is getting 1 set of filters & sharing, provided the other lenses are not using the same filter.

Depends on how you see it. Cost savings vs speed & convenience. I can have 35mm with 55mm ND on & a 50mm with 67mm ND on. I gain speed when swapping the lens, no need to unscrew & rescrew, & deal with potential stuck filters thus delaying more time.

Anybody ever thought about using a zoom lens? It has been proven that some of todays zooms equal and better some of the primes. If the 12-24G and 16-35 GM are not good enough I think the problem lies between some people ears not the lenses.

I like the 12-24 but it found it produces pretty horrible sun star after trying my friends lens few times and when you put it next to the Voigtlander primes, it's like day and night different.

silentstorm Senior Member • Posts: 1,050
Re: What's the advantage of this duplication?

Mathieu18 wrote:

silentstorm wrote:

I get the personal preference thing. However, having an AF lens, at anytime, I can switch off AF & do MF. There are already so many lenses focus by wire, so users can simply adapt like how it always has been. For me, its no biggie. But having a MF lens, there's no option for AF.

So it’s not the lens for you. But plenty much prefer real MF or loathe focus by wire. Some people also never shoot something that requires AF. Your point it valid for you, and Batis is the right choice, but that doesn’t negate the validity of Loxia as a choice for others.

If Zeiss is producing it, people have a choice to buy it. My opinion here is about Zeiss wasting resources duplicating the same FL, not about people choices of buying & using it. We all have choices for MF lenses like getting a Voight or Rokinon or Laowa or even a Zeiss ZF mount for the E/FE mount.

For me I just don't see the advantage of Zeiss doing it. IMO Zeiss is better off just producing either Loxia or Batis range.

Mathieu18
Mathieu18 Senior Member • Posts: 4,157
Re: What's the advantage of this duplication?

If Zeiss is producing it, people have a choice to buy it. My opinion here is about Zeiss wasting resources duplicating the same FL, not about people choices of buying & using it. We all have choices for MF lenses like getting a Voight or Rokinon or Laowa or even a Zeiss ZF mount for the E/FE mount.

For me I just don't see the advantage of Zeiss doing it. IMO Zeiss is better off just producing either Loxia or Batis range.

Well Batis is commonly accepted to be a Tamron designed, Tamron built, Zeiss branded lens. Loxia is a Zeiss designed, Cosina built, Zeiss branded lens. So it makes sense from a broader standpoint, make two lines for different needs by different manufacturers. Segmenting products is pretty common and makes a lot of sense from a company’s perspective...

Then there is also the question of whether anyone but Sony has free reign to release whatever they want. History suggests third party players are somewhat restrained.

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TN Args
TN Args Veteran Member • Posts: 6,879
Re: What's the advantage of this duplication?

Mathieu18 wrote:

If Zeiss is producing it, people have a choice to buy it. My opinion here is about Zeiss wasting resources duplicating the same FL, not about people choices of buying & using it. We all have choices for MF lenses like getting a Voight or Rokinon or Laowa or even a Zeiss ZF mount for the E/FE mount.

For me I just don't see the advantage of Zeiss doing it. IMO Zeiss is better off just producing either Loxia or Batis range.

Well Batis is commonly accepted to be a Tamron designed, Tamron built, Zeiss branded lens.

The Batis 85/1.8 is $1100 yet the Tamron DSLR 85/1.8 (with OIS) is $750. Is that fair?

Loxia is a Zeiss designed, Cosina built, Zeiss branded lens. So it makes sense from a broader standpoint, make two lines for different needs by different manufacturers. Segmenting products is pretty common and makes a lot of sense from a company’s perspective...

Yes, agreed. And interesting information thanks.

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FF Pro
FF Pro Senior Member • Posts: 1,424
Re: What's the advantage of this duplication?

TN Args wrote:

Mathieu18 wrote:

If Zeiss is producing it, people have a choice to buy it. My opinion here is about Zeiss wasting resources duplicating the same FL, not about people choices of buying & using it. We all have choices for MF lenses like getting a Voight or Rokinon or Laowa or even a Zeiss ZF mount for the E/FE mount.

For me I just don't see the advantage of Zeiss doing it. IMO Zeiss is better off just producing either Loxia or Batis range.

Well Batis is commonly accepted to be a Tamron designed, Tamron built, Zeiss branded lens.

The Batis 85/1.8 is $1100 yet the Tamron DSLR 85/1.8 (with OIS) is $750. Is that fair?

Loxia is a Zeiss designed, Cosina built, Zeiss branded lens. So it makes sense from a broader standpoint, make two lines for different needs by different manufacturers. Segmenting products is pretty common and makes a lot of sense from a company’s perspective...

Yes, agreed. And interesting information thanks.

Fair!? There are a lot of unknowns and fair has nothing to do with it

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