SD9-V1 with a JPEG mode?

Started Feb 14, 2003 | Discussions
Guido Vollbeding Regular Member • Posts: 128
SD9-V1 with a JPEG mode?

Hi,

this is a follow-up of a current thread, I open a new one just for
convenience.

This question seems to rise frequently, and I already gave some arguments
earlier.

I still find it no surprise, as an experienced JPEG developer, that the SD9
does not yet have a JPEG mode.
Consider that it is a completely new technology, and remember that
it took several years for conventional digital cameras to provide straight
JPEG output!

The finest digital images I've ever seen come from Sigma SD9 cameras!
I envy all SD9 owners for their ability to produce the best technical and
most impressive image quality.
If I were in urgent need for a digital camera now or had the required
bucks left, I would no doubt acquire an SD9 rather than any other camera
on the market, as long as no other Foveon X3 equipped device is available.

I still remember the times several years ago when playing with early digital
cameras (Minolta RD-175 resp. Agfa ActionCam). It was pure fun to
experience the digital workflow, and lack of straight JPEG output was no
problem at all and didn't decrease that fun!

So I would advice the impatient people to keep a perspective for longer
periods of time. I'm quite confident that sometime there will be straight
JPEG output from X3 equipped cameras, but this time is not now and
probably not this year, and this prospect shouldn't derogate the fun and
unique opportunities with this device.

The time is now to experience and improve the PhotoPro software
capabilities, before thinking of integrating something in firmware.
I have pointed out some corrections to be made especially in the
PhotoPro JPEG output ( http://jpegclub.org/foveon/ ), and fortunately
Foveon responded. I can't say much here because I'm under kind of NDA,
but a solution is on the way and you can expect a PhotoPro update soon
(can't be more specific, sorry)...

Again, it is obviously a natural approach to work out some issues in
software first before burning anything in hardware/firmware.

Regards
Guido

Laurence Matson
Laurence Matson Forum Pro • Posts: 11,988
Re: SD9-V1 with a JPEG mode?

Guido,

Since you were one of the few constructive criticizers who got this ball rolling in a positive way oh so long ago, it is nice to hear your voice of reason again.

Perhaps your most operable statement is this:

Guido Vollbeding wrote:

I have pointed out some corrections to be made especially in the
PhotoPro JPEG output ( http://jpegclub.org/foveon/ ), and fortunately
Foveon responded. >
Again, it is obviously a natural approach to work out some issues in
software first before burning anything in hardware/firmware.

Those of us using the SD9 and Foveon technology have a rare window of opportunity. On the one hand, we have a fabulous device that requires some effort to make work right and which, during the learning curve, causes us to think about what we are doing. On the other hand, we can relate our experiences and bring our suggestions for improvement with a relatively good feeling that in time (brief time) these will get through to the powers that be for response or rejection as they see fit.

It should be clear that Foveon and Sigma are not going to dance around to every tune we play. However, in my limited backoffice notes from other users, it is very apparent that Sigma and Foveon are interested in what we have to say and will work very hard to correct and improve this product. It is up to us to formulate proposals and corrections in such a way that a response is possible. Guido's quick proposal last fall was exceptionally clear and useful. Geir Rune, I know is doing some great work in color profiles.

We need to gather these things and forward them to Foveon and Sigma. I am sure that some will bear fruit.

Oh so many moons ago, I called a small company in Redmond, Washington to get help with a program called Word, of which I had version 1.1. The secretary, who took my call from Switzerland, was able to answer some of my questions and passed me on to someone else (no, his name was not Bill), who handled the rest. Try that today! No moaning music to pacify me; no beating around the bush; no 43 buttons to push to get past the telephonic robots. And no waiting one year for an incomplete bug fix, as our friends with Canons have just gone through either.

I do not look forward to dealing with a Foveon the size of Microsoft, but things will (hopefully) be rescaled for them in the direction of sustainability. In the meantime, it is up to us to exploit the opportunity available now for our own good and that of the company.

Carpe diem.

Laurence

Go Alinghi

http://www.pbase.com/lmatson/sd9_images

Ladehaug Senior Member • Posts: 1,840
Re: SD9-V1 with a JPEG mode?

Guido Vollbeding wrote:

I still find it no surprise, as an experienced JPEG developer, that
the SD9
does not yet have a JPEG mode.
Consider that it is a completely new technology, and remember that
it took several years for conventional digital cameras to provide
straight
JPEG output!

The finest digital images I've ever seen come from Sigma SD9 cameras!
I envy all SD9 owners for their ability to produce the best
technical and
most impressive image quality.
If I were in urgent need for a digital camera now or had the required
bucks left, I would no doubt acquire an SD9 rather than any other
camera
on the market, as long as no other Foveon X3 equipped device is
available.

The bucks is what I need, and once I have them.. SD9!! I'm working on it, so I hope to have a camera "in house" before the sun and the spring sets in.

So I would advice the impatient people to keep a perspective for
longer
periods of time. I'm quite confident that sometime there will be
straight
JPEG output from X3 equipped cameras, but this time is not now and
probably not this year, and this prospect shouldn't derogate the
fun and
unique opportunities with this device.

Absolutely, patience is necessary. Speaking for myself, I don't need any in-camera JPG. But of course, there are others that would find it very useful. I don't believe we'll see a SD9 with direct JPG support. Perhaps in a future SD10? In any case, a new dSLR from Sigma won't happen for a quite some time yet.

The time is now to experience and improve the PhotoPro software
capabilities, before thinking of integrating something in firmware.
I have pointed out some corrections to be made especially in the
PhotoPro JPEG output ( http://jpegclub.org/foveon/ ), and fortunately
Foveon responded. I can't say much here because I'm under kind of
NDA,
but a solution is on the way and you can expect a PhotoPro update soon
(can't be more specific, sorry)...

Again, it is obviously a natural approach to work out some issues in
software first before burning anything in hardware/firmware.

Couldn't agree more, and I'm glad that you are engaged in this at some level and that we'll see improvements in the PhotoPro software regarding the JPG issue. But I think people need to be patient! It can take some time for a new version to "hit the marked".

Regards,
Geir R

Ladehaug Senior Member • Posts: 1,840
Re: SD9-V1 with a JPEG mode?

Laurence Matson wrote:

It should be clear that Foveon and Sigma are not going to dance
around to every tune we play. However, in my limited backoffice
notes from other users, it is very apparent that Sigma and Foveon
are interested in what we have to say and will work very hard to
correct and improve this product. It is up to us to formulate
proposals and corrections in such a way that a response is
possible. Guido's quick proposal last fall was exceptionally clear
and useful. Geir Rune, I know is doing some great work in color
profiles.

Foveon and Sigma must do what they consider is reasonable. I'm pretty sure that Foveon (and Sigma) is aware of the SD9s color issues. However, there is most certainly a good reason why they didn't manage to get it correct in the first place. I believe they had to choose between a smooth and good perceptual color balance with soft transitions versus a heavy processed and more inconsistent "jagged up" color balance. They chose the smooth solution because it is much less damaging to the overall color resolution. This approach also makes it possible for people to adjust the color themselves to a much greater extent. I also think that Foveon knows (in theory) how to capture the light in a better way to calculate more accurate colors, but that they are currently limited by technology to do so. This will be solved in the future, but it takes time, because this technology is "on the edge" and will rely on new production techniques etc.

Geir R

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