Rebel (T6/t6i) vs A6000 vs G7 - Filmmaking

Here's what I am having trouble with suggesting a friend and want him the best, I know is very talented and wants to make a feature film.

Key points:

1- Lighting is DIY/expensive so noise performance is key

2- Large chip look is key of course for a feature

3- Budget is very very limited.

4- Youtube/Web/HD festival release at highest

Products in Egypt:

1-D3400 + 18-55mill (7000 EGP)
2-1200D + 18-55mill (6000 EGP)
3-750D + 18-55mill (14.000 EGP)
4- A6000 + 16-50mill (12.000)
4- G7 (4K) + 14-42mm (15.000)
3- 50mmSTM (2000 EGP)
4- Nikkor manual primes are +- 1000 EGP.
5- Zoom H1 (2000 EGP)
6- EF to Sony E adaptor (2000 EGP)
7- 10-18mm IS UWA Canon (6000 EGP)
8- 85mm f/1.8 Canon (4000 EGP)

1- I can just get him a tiny T5 + kit lens and now he has the wide angles covered and a 50mm with portrait/close up covered, all s35 look/DOF and great colours, add a zoom H1 and audio is superb. All under 10K. And for another 6K I can get him a whole new look (10-18mm IS STM). He can sell all for basically the same price after the film unlike the other options.

*Issues: Aliasing/moire and softish image (still good enough for youtube HD I believe?) no 4K, no Mic input, no tilty screen)

Are you planning to use autofocus? If so, consider that cameras with touch-to-focus (like some Canon's) are much better for that. And, Canon STM lenses focus silently. But, you'd want a T7i or SL2 if you go Canon.

If  the budget is a real consideration, I'd suggest a SL1/100D.  It doesn't have the rotating screen, but he'll/she'll be behind the camera anyway and you might be able to get one refurbished or gently used(look on ebay).  There is no 4k, but a professional photographer/videogprapher' friend of mine  said that 4k took a lot of space, time and all new equipment, to process it. Plus if you know what you're  doing, not necessary.  His stuff is amazing.  He's won a competition.  It's also small and takes regular Canon lens mount, so,  also can find Sigma or Tamron new, refurbished or lightly used lenses.  My 2 cents.

Greg OH wrote:

Are you planning to use autofocus? If so, consider that cameras with touch-to-focus (like some Canon's) are much better for that. And, Canon STM lenses focus silently. But, you'd want a T7i or SL2 if you go Canon.

I don't know. I already am an established filmmaker use both manual and DPAF, but the question is, will a beginner filmmaker value DPAF over the LOG and lack of image artefacts of the Nikon D3400?

What do you think? Having used both the Nikon just has a more polished, sharper image. Yet no AF 50mm at f/1.8 and a 6000 EGP 10-18mm.

Lepewhi wrote:

If the budget is a real consideration, I'd suggest a SL1/100D. It doesn't have the rotating screen, but he'll/she'll be behind the camera anyway and you might be able to get one refurbished or gently used(look on ebay). There is no 4k, but a professional photographer/videogprapher' friend of mine said that 4k took a lot of space, time and all new equipment, to process it. Plus if you know what you're doing, not necessary. His stuff is amazing. He's won a competition. It's also small and takes regular Canon lens mount, so, also can find Sigma or Tamron new, refurbished or lightly used lenses. My 2 cents.

The SL1 isn't sold here (please take a look at the options  and prices listed here as the country limits out model options and no Ebay)

The SL1 has the same 6000 EGP T5 in terms of video anyway so your suggestion still stands as that I guess. (They're both 18mp chip, HD, no DPAF, fixed screen, etc)

My thought is,  Canon cameraz h&ve more, and less expensive lens options.  Of course you can get adaptors for the M4/3 and mirrorless cameras, but the cameras are at this point also more expensive than a budget camera DSLR.  As for video, that I don't know.  But, I'm guessing that if 4K isn't necessary, then  maybe the T5 is all you need, and put the extra on glass., lights, tripod...

I am leaning towards that opinion. I mean manual focus is a skill a filmmaker must learn.

I think this is a good kit for his film:

1- Canon 1200D +18-55mm (T5): 6000 EGP

2- Canon 50mm STM: 2000 EGP

3- 10-18mm STM IS: 6000 EGP

4- Zoom H1 + Rode: 2000 EGP.

Or use the 18mm and get him a a good 7" external monitor + 3 axis gimbal for the 10-18mm price.

Still haven't decided.

The 15.000 G7 + Kit lens (18-55 equi) will give him the advantage of being the first 4K filmimg around here, but no 50mm STM on an APS-C chip look, which is quite essential.

There is no perfect camera.  You might find a perfect camera for a situation, but not all.  He can always upgrade the body, the lenses are what count.  I know that 4k is all the rage now, but you can get a bridge camera(panasonic fz300/330 or FZ1000, but you have smaller sensors and not being able to change lenses if you need to.  So, if he can live without 4k for the moment, and budget is a concern.  Get a decent body, but good glass, learn the trade of movie making and buy what he needs at a later date.  When someone is looking at the film, they are not going to ask if it was 4k or not, rather was is good or not?

Wise words. Agreed. A dirt cheap T5 + 50STM might be HD and considered a video hog, but the entire viewer base will see the footage being better compared to a 4K 1"/M43s camera, simply due to the large sensor DOF (and good enough HD quality to the point where people look else where, i.e., story/acting/locations/lights)

T5 and glass/lights/monitor it is.

Ebrahim Saadawi wrote:

Wise words. Agreed. A dirt cheap T5 + 50STM might be HD and considered a video hog, but the entire viewer base will see the footage being better compared to a 4K 1"/M43s camera, simply due to the large sensor DOF

What a load off bullcrap. Why are GH4/5 used professionally and a T5 never? The T5 is just a absolute piece of misery to use for video. Then there is the lack of mic jack to consider. (Same for the A6000 but there is a way around that with the multi purpose hotshoe.)

You can't use the viewfinder. Can't tilt the screen for different viewing angles. It can't properly auto focus and there is no way to use focus peaking in order to do it manually.

Then unlike the G7 there is no way to hook up a external recorder. The T5 is useless. For both stills and video.

(and good enough HD quality to the point where people look else where, i.e., story/acting/locations/lights)

T5 and glass/lights/monitor it is.

Barnet: There's absolutely no way anyone's suggesting the T5 is a better camera for making a film than a 4K G7 with peaking, Cinelike-D/V, mic, clean 24p HDMI out, 60p, manual adapters,

The matter here is price and cost of the system he'll need to achieve footage that look the way he wants, and I want to help him do that.

It's just a cost matter (camera and lenses) that make me think getting him a T5 is a better end choice than being stuck with a G7 + 14-42mm with no additional lenses, or gear too...

T5 is 6000 EGP G7 is 15.000 EGP (both with 18-55 equiv).

What do you think?

Remember the 50mm STM and 10-18mm. Plus remember it's not going to be viewed anymore than 720p at most. What are your thoughts?

(Wants a shallow DOF look, handheld, good audio and some structured motion - slides/pans etc)

Ebrahim Saadawi wrote:

Barnet: There's absolutely no way anyone's suggesting the T5 is a better camera for making a film than a 4K G7 with peaking, Cinelike-D/V, mic, clean 24p HDMI out, 60p, manual adapters,

The matter here is price and cost of the system he'll need to achieve footage that look the way he wants, and I want to help him do that.

It's just a cost matter (camera and lenses) that make me think getting him a T5 is a better end choice than being stuck with a G7 + 14-42mm with no additional lenses, or gear too...

T5 is 6000 EGP G7 is 15.000 EGP (both with 18-55 equiv).

What do you think?

Remember the 50mm STM and 10-18mm. Plus remember it's not going to be viewed anymore than 720p at most. What are your thoughts?

(Wants a shallow DOF look, handheld, good audio and some structured motion - slides/pans etc)

My thoughts are simple, get a camera that at the very least has a mic jack and focus peaking. Sony A5100 might be a good option since it also has reasonable AutoFocus and a good XavcS codec when recording 1080p at 60fps. Which also allows for half speed slowmo unavailable on the T5

Slides and pans require fairly expensive accessories. Which can cost more then a G7 body btw.

Yes the 50mm STM is a bargain lens smart for the 10-18. But Sony has a 50mm OIS for a bit more which makes a LOT more sense for video.

Panasonic has the 42.5mm OIS F1.7 which is also stabilized which is again very important for video. In the future a better body would give him access to the best video stabilisation available.

Canon for video is no longer a serious option. No useable 4k till you hit the cinema line. And no advanced features like Log zebra's nor peaking either.

BarNet Sadly all this gear is simply unavailable for purchase here. The list in the OP are more like "only" not "some" solutions!

A T5 + 18-55: 6000

A G7 + 14-42: 15.000

An A6000 + 16-50: 12.000

Bearing in mind, no E mount lenses or M43s lenses exist. Only a 2000 EF to E mount  adapter and I might fish for a m43s one.

There's a cool glidecam that I tried for 3500 that works pretty well. and a very good external monitor, 7", with peaking/wavrform for 4000,

Also that tempting Dual Pixel AF + 50STM shooting combo,

T7i + 18+55: 15.000

Sadly no SL2 in Egypt, yet. Which is supposed to be the cheapest DPAF camera.

What package would you get him knowing that information for shooting a film?

Ebrahim Saadawi wrote:

BarNet Sadly all this gear is simply unavailable for purchase here. The list in the OP are more like "only" not "some" solutions!

A T5 + 18-55: 6000

A G7 + 14-42: 15.000

An A6000 + 16-50: 12.000

Bearing in mind, no E mount lenses or M43s lenses exist. Only a 2000 EF to E mount adapter and I might fish for a m43s one.

There's a cool glidecam that I tried for 3500 that works pretty well. and a very good external monitor, 7", with peaking/wavrform for 4000,

Also that tempting Dual Pixel AF + 50STM shooting combo,

T7i + 18+55: 15.000

Sadly no SL2 in Egypt, yet. Which is supposed to be the cheapest DPAF camera.

What package would you get him knowing that information for shooting a film?

The G7 probably try to get a second hand.

Mic jack easy focus pulls in camera 4k peaking tilty screen. It's just made to shoot video.

BarnET wrote:

Ebrahim Saadawi wrote:

BarNet Sadly all this gear is simply unavailable for purchase here. The list in the OP are more like "only" not "some" solutions!

A T5 + 18-55: 6000

A G7 + 14-42: 15.000

An A6000 + 16-50: 12.000

Bearing in mind, no E mount lenses or M43s lenses exist. Only a 2000 EF to E mount adapter and I might fish for a m43s one.

There's a cool glidecam that I tried for 3500 that works pretty well. and a very good external monitor, 7", with peaking/wavrform for 4000,

Also that tempting Dual Pixel AF + 50STM shooting combo,

T7i + 18+55: 15.000

Sadly no SL2 in Egypt, yet. Which is supposed to be the cheapest DPAF camera.

What package would you get him knowing that information for shooting a film?

The G7 probably try to get a second hand.

Mic jack easy focus pulls in camera 4k peaking tilty screen. It's just made to shoot video.

It's just one store that I found in the entire country that sells the G7 + 14-42 for 15.000 EGP (848 USD) so finding a used one is out of the question (I wish).

4K IS a pretty cool thing to advertise your film here, it's pretty new/unknown. And it's also more detail and sharpness. But the lens situation makes cringe. It's either kit lens only film, or a 2000 EF adapter + Canons. 1000$+

And even then stability is an issue aside from the kit lens.

That's what's making me lean towards a glidecam + 400 USD Canon HD camera

I like to share that I DO have the budget barely for a G7 + kit + Ef-m43s + 50 + Zoom H1 + glidecam but I still want to be smart with the purchase vs value. What if the audience don't care about the extra quality over the 400$ T5?

Here's another thought.  Is there a camera/photography club near you?  Maybe they have cameras or gear that they will let you borrow or rent at a good price as long as you give them credit in your film. You can only ask.  You might find people who want to help out.

Thank you for helping.

I am actually helping a young 16 year-old friend with a GREAT film script. I do own a 5DIV and a 70D. Whenever I see how easy it is to shoot 50mm F/1.8 with DPAF wide open I just can't not see it again.

I can lend him a camera and lenses, but the film is rough, in very non-friendly conditions, that's why I am not just lending him the 5DIV + 16-35mm F4 IS L and shoot 4K 4:2:2... There's a good chance for harrasement, confescation, bumps/dings... etc Both the 70D and 5D were big investments for me (60.000EGP and 22.000 EGP).

I am starting to think the cheapest DPAF camera is smartest for him, the country will NOT see 4K vs HD, but will see his focus errors, he's a 16 and not a manual focus guy at all, he'll be learning...

A Canon also means he can sell it after the film shoot for basically the same money. Say a T7i/77D for 15K can be sold for 12-13K or so. Has DPAF and surprisingly good electronic stabilization. But then again that's the same money he can get a superb 4K G7 with an EVF, peaking, etc... but resale for 5-6K max. It's an unknown "panasonic camera". I can't make the decision!

If the super cheapo 499$ SL2 vs 800+$ t7i existed here I wouldn't hesitate, but we are a bit slow with new models... It's either the non DPAF T5 for 6k or 77d for 16K or G7 for 15.5K. All with 18-55 kits.