How bad do you miss IS in the XT-20?

Started 8 months ago | Discussions
TheDarmok74 Forum Member • Posts: 71
How bad do you miss IS in the XT-20?

The one thing I am sorely missing compared to the, say, Panasonic G81 is in body IS. Now this works amazingly well in smart phones and Olympus/Pana bodies and even on my Sony RX100IV I manage to get some shots with 1/2 second with several tries.

I guess most of the time I'd be using the kit lens anyways, so no proble there, but what about the great primes? Do you miss it there? I think it could be an issue, especially with video. Then again, for video the kit lens will do nicely....

Heinz Senior Member • Posts: 1,653
Re: How bad do you miss IS in the XT-20?
3

TheDarmok74 wrote:

The one thing I am sorely missing compared to the, say, Panasonic G81 is in body IS. Now this works amazingly well in smart phones and Olympus/Pana bodies and even on my Sony RX100IV I manage to get some shots with 1/2 second with several tries.

I guess most of the time I'd be using the kit lens anyways, so no proble there, but what about the great primes? Do you miss it there? I think it could be an issue, especially with video. Then again, for video the kit lens will do nicely....

Hm, i don't miss IS at all. I knew before i bought it that it hasn't this feature. There is no and probably will be no IS in Fuji cameras for known reasons. But we have choices, right?

Threaded Senior Member • Posts: 1,737
Re: How bad do you miss IS in the XT-20?

Never had it so never missed it in any of my X cameras.  It wouldn’t have much benefit to my usual subject matter anyway, unless it stabilised the people in front of the lens.

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OP TheDarmok74 Forum Member • Posts: 71
Re: How bad do you miss IS in the XT-20?

I don't know the reasons.

So since I know it before and there are choices, I should go with another brand? That's not really helpful but if what you're saying is that you don't need it and don't miss it, ok, then I understand.

Christof21 Veteran Member • Posts: 3,266
Re: How bad do you miss IS in the XT-20?

TheDarmok74 wrote:

I don't know the reasons.

So since I know it before and there are choices, I should go with another brand? That's not really helpful but if what you're saying is that you don't need it and don't miss it, ok, then I understand.

Welcome to the Fuji forum ...

baobob
baobob Forum Pro • Posts: 10,543
Re: How bad do you miss IS in the XT-20?
1

I have XT10 and Xt2 I do not miss IS since I mainly use Fuji Xf lenses

The only lens where I would need it is the Tamron macro 2.5 90mm but due to no AF available I don't use too much in the field bur rather for reproduction using a tripod

Also remember that IS shifts the sensor so with a very long FL the image will slightly move in the EVF which can be an issue for targetting precisely the focus

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Jerry-astro
MOD Jerry-astro Forum Pro • Posts: 10,341
Re: How bad do you miss IS in the XT-20?
1

Heinz wrote:

Hm, i don't miss IS at all. I knew before i bought it that it hasn't this feature. There is no and probably will be no IS in Fuji cameras for known reasons. But we have choices, right?

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Heinz

Depends whether you believe the rumor mills.  IBIS support is a very pervasive rumor for the upcoming X-T2S.  For all the noise that Fuji has made about the difficulty involved in adding IBIS to their cameras, I wouldn't at all be surprised to see it.  The competitive environment is making it very difficult for them to ignore this rather important (IMHO) technology.  And, as far as those "known reasons" go, as an ex product marketing guy, what they've been saying about the challenges of integrating IBIS are exactly what I would have stated if I were trying to explain why my product line doesn't support the feature.  So, I might tend to take some of those earlier statements with a grain of salt.  However, I should make it clear that this is strictly MY opinion... nothing more.

If they do decide to go that way, then over time, I would expect them to migrate the technology into different models.

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Ben Herrmann
Ben Herrmann Forum Pro • Posts: 19,354
Yes, the various M43 cameras can spoil you...
1

...to say the least. I've always preferred IBIS cameras and once you try (and get hooked) on the likes of good 5-Axis IBIS systems, you can never turn back. The stability with some of these models (i.e. holding the camera for a 2-second shot - and having the image come out rock-solid steady) will just have you shaking your head in disbelief.

I've accepted the fact that other mirrorless systems don't have IBIS and must rely on the lenses to do that. But like you, when it comes to primes, that is another matter. I would love to see Fuji transition to IBIS systems, that's for sure. If that were the case, I would finally invest in Fuji primes (currently, of which, I don't have any). On the M43 side of the house I have a half-dozen primes because of IBIS.

But in the end, if you've never experienced a good IBIS system (thus stabilizing all of the lenses you attach), you wouldn't know what you're missing to begin with and many of those folks would counter with, "what's the big deal here?" Or, they would berate M43 (or whatever other brands have IBIS) solely because it isn't Fuji.

It appears as though Fuji is slowly transitioning to incorporating IBIS in their cameras (i.e. the pending rumors about the S-T2s with IBIS).  If that is the case and the response has been positive, it would not be reasonable to conclude that additional models would be forthcoming that incorporate this welcomed feature.

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baobob
baobob Forum Pro • Posts: 10,543
Re: How bad do you miss IS in the XT-20?
1

A good reason to promote IBIS paradoxically is not with XT2 but with the cheaper bodies allowing built of smalle lighter cheaper lenses

Whether or not Fuji will go in that direction ? just wait ...

IBIS is attractive for 3rd party lenses

Canik never implemented IBIS

I woldl be interested to have a comparative study about IBIS non IBIS with OIS FL to check how many stops you get in boith technologies

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liggy
liggy Regular Member • Posts: 263
I don't miss it. Never had it.
2

I came into this system eyes wide open.   I just crank up the ISO to get to a workable shutter speed .  Would I like to have the option?  Sure, one of these days.

Not a dealbreaker.   For me - it's a nice to have, not need to have.

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KwhyChang Veteran Member • Posts: 5,700
Re: How bad do you miss IS in the XT-20?
1

I can say that I only miss it with recording video. For my use mostly it's not needed but I do like having it. The X-T2s is rumored to have it in the first quarter of 2018.

If I need it I will use either the Pen F or the GX-85.

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Dave

OP TheDarmok74 Forum Member • Posts: 71
Re: Yes, the various M43 cameras can spoil you...

Thank you for the insight. I wasn't aware of the rumors but it makes sense to assume they are working on it.

Your words confirm what I was thinking all along, so it's a compromise but so are many other things, like a smaller senosor. Thanks again.

Bob Tullis
Bob Tullis Forum Pro • Posts: 35,083
Re: How bad do you miss IS in the XT-20?

Jerry-astro wrote:

Heinz wrote:

Hm, i don't miss IS at all. I knew before i bought it that it hasn't this feature. There is no and probably will be no IS in Fuji cameras for known reasons. But we have choices, right?

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Heinz

Depends whether you believe the rumor mills. IBIS support is a very pervasive rumor for the upcoming X-T2S. For all the noise that Fuji has made about the difficulty involved in adding IBIS to their cameras, I wouldn't at all be surprised to see it. The competitive environment is making it very difficult for them to ignore this rather important (IMHO) technology. And, as far as those "known reasons" go, as an ex product marketing guy, what they've been saying about the challenges of integrating IBIS are exactly what I would have stated if I were trying to explain why my product line doesn't support the feature. So, I might tend to take some of those earlier statements with a grain of salt. However, I should make it clear that this is strictly MY opinion... nothing more.

I have the same opinion - past reasons were more excuses than reasons for being slow to incorporate IBIS.   I speculate what they needed to make Fuji IBIS required technology that wasn't quite there at the time, or that there were licensing issues, or they didn't want to alter the models to accommodate IBIS (thicker from front to back) fearing it would put off the user base.   Or a bit of each of that.

Only because IBIS has become so ubiquitous that the reasons didn't make  a whole lot of sense to me.    Now, should IBIS arrive as has been announced, it'll take some doing to convince those that drank the no-IBIS coolaid that it's safe to drink the IBIS coolaid (witness how many on this forum still are doubtful).

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Jerry-astro
MOD Jerry-astro Forum Pro • Posts: 10,341
Re: How bad do you miss IS in the XT-20?
1

Bob Tullis wrote:

I have the same opinion - past reasons were more excuses than reasons for being slow to incorporate IBIS. I speculate what they needed to make Fuji IBIS required technology that wasn't quite there at the time, or that there were licensing issues, or they didn't want to alter the models to accommodate IBIS (thicker from front to back) fearing it would put off the user base. Or a bit of each of that.

Only because IBIS has become so ubiquitous that the reasons didn't make a whole lot of sense to me. Now, should IBIS arrive as has been announced, it'll take some doing to convince those that drank the no-IBIS coolaid that it's safe to drink the IBIS coolaid (witness how many on this forum still are doubtful).

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...Bob, NYC

Well, Bob, I have a long and storied history of being an early adopter (otherwise known as the "bleeding edge") having spent my entire career in high tech.  So, I'll be lining up for that Kool-Aid if and when it arrives and hoping I don't get bitten by my eagerness.  I've admired that technology from afar for a long time and can't wait to see it come to the Fuji world.  Might even get a zoom guy like me a lot more interested in diving into Fuji's amazing world of primes [finally].

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Bob Tullis
Bob Tullis Forum Pro • Posts: 35,083
Re: How bad do you miss IS in the XT-20?

baobob wrote:

A good reason to promote IBIS paradoxically is not with XT2 but with the cheaper bodies allowing built of smalle lighter cheaper lenses

Whether or not Fuji will go in that direction ? just wait ...

IBIS is attractive for 3rd party lenses

It's effective for any lens w/o OIS, and a pain but it works for non-communicating lenses (one always has to remember to input the FL of the current lens just mounted).

Canik never implemented IBIS

I woldl be interested to have a comparative study about IBIS non IBIS with OIS FL to check how many stops you get in boith technologies

That goes by camera model or brand.   Some of us have done this already with other cameras.   OIS logically has the edge (more so for longer focal lengths), but IBIS has come a long way. . . I was using an E-M1 with a 100-400 with OIS, and the conclusion I reached was that IBIS was just as good, and I stopped using OIS with that lens.    Just because I didn't want to confuse myself when I would mount a lens that didn't have OIS, so I went IBIS all the way.

Later I was using Sony, which is different in that if a lens has OIS then IBIS would handle some of the movement, and the lens would compensate for other aspects of movement.

So, IBIS technologies will differ, as well how effective IBIS is for any individual.   How many stops advantage I'd get would vary (depending on lens, subject, and how I was feeling that day), but on average I'd say 2 stops were enough and very welcome.   We'll just have to see how effective Fuji's IBIS will be touted to be, and how that translates into practical usage.   I can't see them implementing it if it's not going to be effective (not after their past posture against incorporating IBIS).

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jptsr1
jptsr1 Regular Member • Posts: 151
Re: How bad do you miss IS in the XT-20?

Never owned anything but a point and shoot that had IBS so I don't miss it at all. I believe some people think it helps more than it actually does. I also almost always carry a tripod of some sort with me so I'm probably not a good sample.

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Bob Tullis
Bob Tullis Forum Pro • Posts: 35,083
Re: How bad do you miss IS in the XT-20?
1

Jerry-astro wrote:

Bob Tullis wrote:

I have the same opinion - past reasons were more excuses than reasons for being slow to incorporate IBIS. I speculate what they needed to make Fuji IBIS required technology that wasn't quite there at the time, or that there were licensing issues, or they didn't want to alter the models to accommodate IBIS (thicker from front to back) fearing it would put off the user base. Or a bit of each of that.

Only because IBIS has become so ubiquitous that the reasons didn't make a whole lot of sense to me. Now, should IBIS arrive as has been announced, it'll take some doing to convince those that drank the no-IBIS coolaid that it's safe to drink the IBIS coolaid (witness how many on this forum still are doubtful).

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...Bob, NYC

Well, Bob, I have a long and storied history of being an early adopter (otherwise known as the "bleeding edge") having spent my entire career in high tech. So, I'll be lining up for that Kool-Aid if and when it arrives and hoping I don't get bitten by my eagerness. I've admired that technology from afar for a long time and can't wait to see it come to the Fuji world. Might even get a zoom guy like me a lot more interested in diving into Fuji's amazing world of primes [finally].

I'm confident if Fuji put it in it'll be worthwhile.   And I fear the announcement, because while I'm surprisingly OK w/o IBIS on this X-T2 I wouldn't mind at all having a 2 stop or so advantage.   Will I want to resist, or will the ability to resist be sustained?

Pavlov was right. 

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Bob Tullis
Bob Tullis Forum Pro • Posts: 35,083
Re: How bad do you miss IS in the XT-20?

Threaded wrote:

Never had it so never missed it in any of my X cameras. It wouldn’t have much benefit to my usual subject matter anyway, unless it stabilised the people in front of the lens.

That's good.

IBIS can spoil one's expectations for keeping shutter or ISO lower than might otherwise be necessary w/o IBIS (which doesn't necessarily mean using shutter speeds below subject movement thresholds, despite that being all that anyone ever thinks of).

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Homo erectus
Homo erectus Regular Member • Posts: 472
Re: How bad do you miss IS in the XT-20?

For the subjects and situations that I tend to shoot IS just doesn't offer me anything. So I don't miss it personally.

I do understand that its quite popular with other folks though.

Fujis in lens stabilization works quite well. So, I'd acquire an OIS lens if I really needed it right now. The OIS in the 50-230 works pretty well and I found the OIS in the 50-140 to be quite impressive. Those are the only OIS lenses I have personal experience with. I use it when I am shooting video, which happens, very, very, rarely.

Rumor has it that there's an iteration of the X-T2 in the pipeline with in body stabilization. I'm fine with that as long as it can be turned off.

I mainly own primes and don't feel the need for stabilization. Unless I've had waytoo much coffee to drink

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baobob
baobob Forum Pro • Posts: 10,543
Re: How bad do you miss IS in the XT-20?

It is clear that with IBIS it will be temptating to built cheaper lenses eg Canon  f4 70-200mm I had (with IS) had a price tag double the non Is version

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