Taking pics of dancers in a ballroom

Hello all,

First time posting here, as I need a bit of advice from you.

I want to shoot pics of tango dancers in a milonga (that is a social dance), like this:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/pforret/4160045989/

These are not stage dancers, but normal people moving not so fast; however, as you can see, the light is dim, and I don't want to use flash to disturb the dancers.

My kit is Canon M10 + EF 50 mm 1.8 II, which gives me nice background blurring and light for the pictures. However, using this combo with autofocus is hopelessly slow in the low light it has to operate. I've managed to get some good shots with manual focus + focus peaking (which works very nice in the M10). Although I've become used to the procedure, I get tired of having to adjust the lens focusing ring continuously, only half of my pictures are in focus, and even those are never 100% sharp.

My question is: will things improve if I buy a DSLR and use the viewfinder for autofocus? I am thinking of the 100D, the 750D, or maybe a more advanced mirrorless (M6 for example). Or do you think that the lenses I use (EF 50 mm 1.8 II, and soon EF 50 mm 1.4 USM and EF 85 mm 1.8) are the limiting factor?

Thanks for your help and best regards,

The M10 is the biggest part of the problem. An M6 is better but still inadequate for the lighting level.

A DSLR is the best solution, use the OVF.

The 50 1.8 II will still have some misses, 50 1.8 STM and 50 1.4 are better but not ideal.

The 35 f2 IS and/or 85 1.8 with a DSLR should provide the best results.

First of all, the picture you linked to came out very well. That lighting certainly poses some challenges for focusing. I have taken shots in that kind of lighting with AF on my 7DII and 35 F2 IS without any problems, but that camera's AF system is optimized for low light. I have also managed decently with AF on my original M using the 22 pancake in that kind of light. The 50 II is notorious for slow and bad AF. If you want to use a 50, I would recommend the 50 F1.8 STM, not the old, and also not great for AF, F1.4 version. I would also highly recommend the 35 F2 IS for those conditions. You might benefit from the somewhat wider angle. I just recently got the M6, and can say that the AF is very impressive. In low light, with a fast lens, like the 50 STM or the 22, it works very well. I used it with both of those lenses last weekend at a dimly lit theatrical fundraiser, and the AF was fine. I got some shots of an Irish stepdancer using servo with the 50, and the focus followed pretty well. The lighting prevented me from using shutter speeds high enough to completely freeze him, but the blurred feet combined with sharper torso worked pretty well.

I would say that the M6, combined with either 50 STM or 35 IS, would cope perfectly well with AF for what you want. The 7DII would be even better. I haven't used the latest Rebels, but I would think that at least the center point would also cope well in those conditions. The 85 F1.8 is a pretty decent lens for fast AF. I've owned one for the last 12 years, and use it periodically. I haven't used it with my M6 yet, but I used it for portraits with my M, and the AF was fine. I would think it would be a bit restrictive for the kind of conditions you're talking about, though. Depending on how close you are to the dancers, you might also think about the 22 pancake.

I see it was taken with the 500D. I also see that the lighting isn't all that bad. The EXIF says 1/60 at F1.8 at ISO 640. The M6 with 50 STM would cope easily with that lighting using servo AF. I would probably bump the ISO to 1600 and shoot at 1/125 at F2. I'm sure any of the latest Rebels would also cope easily with that. Whether you should get a Rebel or the M6 depends on how much you want the smaller form factor of the mirrorless. I'm loving my M6. It won't replace my 7DII for fast action, or for very low light (much lower than what you're looking at), but for everything else, it's great.

Troilo wrote:

Peter63 and Alastair, many thanks for taking your time to answer. So your recommendations are:

* Either get a modern mirrorless like the M5 / M6, or a DSLR and use the viewfinder. In the last case, any suggestion about the minimum DSLR that will do the job? A 100D, a 750D or do I have to go higher? (the 7D mark II is a bit expensive for me...)

The 7D mark II has sophisticated tracking modes that are overkill for the speed of your subjects. The 100D and 750D will both focus down to -0.5 EV (100D only with the center point), if you move up to an 80D, it will focus down to -3 EV. The -3 figure is near darkness and probably not needed based on the 2 shots posted above, any DSLR will probably be fine.

Back to considering an M for your needs:

If based on the above photos, you have faces with that much light on them that also fill that much screen, any of the M models with DPAF (M100, M5, or M6) will probably work with facial tracking. If they get further away, the face recognition has a harder time. You may have to revert to single point and place the focus point on the face of the dancer you want. As the light drops, the contrast of your target becomes very important, the dancer in the first shot with pale skin and a dark beard should be easy. If you have a face that is relatively far away and lacks contrast, you can try to lock on clothing like the checkered shirt in the second photo. If facial recognition fails and you have to track manually, my choice would be the M5 since you can move the focus point with your thumb on the LCD while your eye is at the EVF.

* Regardless of camera body, use a faster focusing lens. From your recommendations, it would have to be the EF 50 mm 1.8 STM or the EF 85 mm 1.8, since I want to keep at a certain distance from the dancers... (22 mm or 35 mm is too close to them and makes them unconfortable).

Yes, the 50 STM and 85 1.8 will be an improvement, focus should be faster but more importantly, it should be more reliable. Both of them benefit in IQ from stopping down but I am more than happy with the quality of my 85 1.8 wide open. I sold my 50 1.4, I was never very fond of it. If you are looking for an upgrade from the 50 STM in that focal range, I would look at the new Tamron 45 1.8 VC.

Best regards!

I'm sorry to say but Canon sensors are slow to focus in low contrast situations and even worst in low light which is a double whammy.  I would recommend manual set focus with a small aperture for more depth of field.  A high ISO will also help but have to find the sweet spot of minimal noise.  You can fix noise post processed.  Also you can set your camera to multiple shots and use RAW to recover the image afterwards.

tocar wrote:

I'm sorry to say but Canon sensors are slow to focus in low contrast situations and even worst in low light which is a double whammy. I would recommend manual set focus with a small aperture for more depth of field. A high ISO will also help but have to find the sweet spot of minimal noise. You can fix noise post processed. Also you can set your camera to multiple shots and use RAW to recover the image afterwards.

Did you look at the pic the OP linked to illustrating the kind of conditions? The M5 or M6 will have absolutely no problems in lighting like that. I've used my M6 in lower lighting with servo AF with a hit rate of 80%-90%. As long as a fast lens (F2.8 or faster) is used, that lighting doesn't present any problems. I've tested my M6 in low light. If the light is really low and the contrast simply isn't there, it won't focus. But we are talking light levels at least 5 stops lower than the OP is looking at. The light on the faces of the dancers actually presents a pretty easy target.

Troilo wrote:

Hello again friends,

Just a quick note to let you know that I upgraded to this setup:

and the focus problem is completely solved. I use the 200D mostly in Live View mode / single shot (not servo), and the AF is confident and fast enough for my purposes, with both the EF 50 mm f/1.8 STM and EF 85 mm f/1.8 USM. I'll keep the M10 with the EF-M 22 mm f/2.0 for wider shots, and I'm fully equipped.

I looked at the M6 too, as Alastair suggested, but ultimately I got a better price for the 200 D, which also has DPAF, and this way I could leave the adapter at home...

Thanks for your help and best regards,

Congrats on your purchase. Looks like a good setup, and the white body looks cool too. I have found that the DPAF on the M6, which is the same as live view on the 200D, works very well in low light, especially with fast lenses. I'm sure you're getting some great shots.