A Nikon D850 rented for testing intermittently freezes

Started Nov 8, 2017 | Discussions
Photosbylindsay New Member • Posts: 1
Re: A Nikon D850 rented for testing intermittently freezes

I have bought two now through amazon and have the same problem. It freezes up on me at random moments. I found that taking the sad card out and putting it back in would work for me. I will have to try illuminate button and see if that works. I sent one back already I just can’t see paying that amount of money and not have a properly functioning camera. Ugh. It does take beautiful pictures though

Leonard Shepherd
Leonard Shepherd Forum Pro • Posts: 20,300
Re: This thread is 5 months old - and

jarek leo wrote:

We have no longer Nikon Poland like we used to have. There is only Nikon Europe. The camera is owned by the photographic store that originally loaned it to me for testing - after my initial test it was sent to Nikon Europe service for the first time. The store's owner asked me to retest the camera before he could sell it as a fully functional pre-used one. I experienced the same issues as before so they sent it to the Nikon Europe service again. This time it returned after about seven weeks with information that the camera was tested thoroughly and no issues were detected. I went to the store as I was asked to check if everything was OK and the camera froze on the second shot we took in the store. We decided that I would take the camera again and use it heavily, documenting with a smartphone the cases of freezing to prove to Nikon Europe there is something strange going on with the camera.

I am intrigued why a photo store owner able to sell a new D850 did not have the skill to test the camera himself/herself on its second return 

If I were the store owner I would if only to eliminate the person using it as a possible reason for the reported issue!

If Nikon have checked it out twice and found no fault, with the implication they cannot get the camera to "lock-up" it is extremely likely there is no fault.

When taking a photo indoors combined with shutter release delay at a shutter speed of a few seconds the rear monitor is black (not the same as locked up) - for 6 seconds in the test I just did combining shutter release delay and a 4 second exposure.

With a 2 seconds exposure delay and a 4 second exposure the rear screen should be blank for 6 seconds 

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Leonard Shepherd
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jarek leo
OP jarek leo Contributing Member • Posts: 967
Re: This thread is 5 months old - and
1

You are suggesting there is something wrong with me and I am the possible reason for the the reported issue. I have been a professional photographic equipment tester for 30 years so i know my business. And the store owner knows I know more about cameras than he does so he relies on me.

Leonard Shepherd wrote:

If I were the store owner I would if only to eliminate the person using it as a possible reason for the reported issue!

What does that have to do with the issue? A complete mystery to me why you are quoting something that obvious. I am talking about a camera with no exposure delay set  and taking a photo in Av mode with an exposure of something like 1/250th of a second and locking for minutes until a reset it.

I am afraid I have missed the point of your post other than trying to offend me.

Jarek

When taking a photo indoors combined with shutter release delay at a shutter speed of a few seconds the rear monitor is black (not the same as locked up) - for 6 seconds in the test I just did combining shutter release delay and a 4 second exposure.

With a 2 seconds exposure delay and a 4 second exposure the rear screen should be blank for 6 seconds

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Leonard Shepherd
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Jenny D Regular Member • Posts: 258
Re: A Nikon D850 rented for testing intermittently freezes

Photosbylindsay wrote:

I have bought two now through amazon and have the same problem. It freezes up on me at random moments. I found that taking the sad card out and putting it back in would work for me. I will have to try illuminate button and see if that works. I sent one back already I just can’t see paying that amount of money and not have a properly functioning camera. Ugh. It does take beautiful pictures though

Can you post a photo you've taken with your D850?

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Jenny

ImageAmateur Veteran Member • Posts: 5,067
Re: A Nikon D850 rented for testing intermittently freezes

noflashplease wrote:

jarek leo wrote:

Just to reiterate: I am mostly a slow jpeg shooter and do not need anything nearly as fast as a D5. I use D850 exactly like i used my D800E/D810 - for macros, landscapes; I usually take one photo at a time, usually one photo is a couple of minutes. And the issue happens locking the camera for ever - until I "reset" it somehow.

Jarek

It sounds like you might have an issue with the camera falling into "standby" if you're taking so long between shots. Personally, I tend to power off my D7000, as standby doesn't seem to save any battery life or time as compared to a proper shutdown. It's possible that multiple standby cycles might result in the sort of intermittent freeze you're talking about. Just make sure to turn the camera on and off between shots.

Personally, I have no idea how the little proprietary "operating system" in a DSLR functions. Does turning the camera on/off result in a boot cycle? Is "standby" the equivalent of "sleep" or "hibernate?" It's possible that there's no functional difference between On/Off and standby mode? Some (most?) embedded devices never reboot unless you perform a reset or hard restart? I really don't know.

Your issue might be very hard to recreate, even for Nikon techs. I'm not saying that you don't have a problem, just that it might be very hard to trace due to your particular usage pattern. Is it a hardware issue or a firmware issue? Generally speaking, this doesn't appear to be a widely reported issue and you might be the first, and possibly the only user to have this problem. Personally, I can't imagine spending $3,300 on a camera to shoot .jpegs? I shoot RAW, especially for (manual focus) macro and landscapes, and since most of my work is at base ISO, I shoot 14-bit NEF files. I use AF bursts for sports, theater, circus arts and dance, typically in low light, where shooting RAW files is absolutely mandatory, as far as I'm concerned. I still haven't embraced the High ISO rationale of 12-bit NEF files, but that's another issue.

I still suspect a recording / buffer / memory card processing issue, even if occurring in a non multi shot sequence.

Considering that the camera has entered virtually new territory re megapixels, also new memory card types, at least the XQD and DS mix as you note elsewhere, maybe the firmware is not quote optimized?

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Leonard Shepherd
Leonard Shepherd Forum Pro • Posts: 20,300
Re: This thread is 5 months old - and
1

jarek leo wrote:

I have been a professional photographic equipment tester for 30 years so i know my business.

snipped

I am talking about a camera with no exposure delay set and taking a photo in Av mode with an exposure of something like 1/250th of a second and locking for minutes until a reset it.

Most "professional photographic equipment testers" know that Av mode is Canon, not Nikon 

Others may be on the right track suggesting a possible card issue. Nikon seem to have eliminated a camera issue.

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Leonard Shepherd
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snerkler Forum Member • Posts: 59
Re: This thread is 5 months old - and

I’ve just bought the D850 after 3.5 happy years with the D750 and I have a similar freezing issue to some posted on here. It is very random but when it happens the shutter button and multiselector to move the AF point don’t work. And it’s as though the camera has gone into sleep mode and won’t wake up. After several half presses of the shutter button (or it could be time) it comes back to life. I don’t know if menus etc work at this time as I haven’t tried.

This is NOT buffer related as sometimes I haven’t even taken a shot when it happens, I’ve just been playing with the menus and then go to take a shot and it’s unresponsive. Sometimes it has been after taking a shot (single shot AF-S) but has been several seconds after the shot so plenty of time to the buffer to clear. My initial thoughts were that it’s failing to wake from sleep sometimes but I’m not sure.

The problem has occurred with two different lenses (50mm f1.8g and 70-200mm f2.8 VRII) which both work fine on the D750. I have had the camera for just under a week and it’s happened maybe 3-4 times. I’m now wondering whether to send the camera back for a replacement, or whether this is an inherent issue with the D850 that we’re going to hear about more and more?

For the the record I have experienced the freezing issue with the D750, but this was completely different. For me it only occurred with the Tamron 150-600mm, very rarely (maybe 4-5 times in 3.5 years) and could only be rectified by turning the camera off and removing the battery.

quisflis Junior Member • Posts: 42
Re: A Nikon D850 rented for testing intermittently freezes

Hey people, I am back from an extensive shoot of 5 days. I used the D850 and D500 with my 24-70mm 2.8 (non VR), my 70-200 2.8 (VR I) and my 14-24mm 2.8. I specially bought two new cards for the D850, a sony XQD 128GB and a Sandisk 128 GB Extreme Pro, just to make sure it was a card problem.

I experienced the freezing a couple of times, so it still is present. When it happened I quickly switched the it off and on again. After that it would still need a couple of seconds to react again. It happened randomly, and the buffer wasn't full as I was not shooting on continuous mode.

So, yeah, unfortunately the freezing phenomenon is still there. I will be taking mine to Nikon service as soon as possible. I wish it would just perform like the D500, which is just a beast.

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Leonard Shepherd
Leonard Shepherd Forum Pro • Posts: 20,300
Re: A Nikon D850 rented for testing intermittently freezes

quisflis wrote:

I experienced the freezing a couple of times, so it still is present. When it happened I quickly switched the it off and on again. After that it would still need a couple of seconds to react again. It happened randomly, and the buffer wasn't full as I was not shooting on continuous mode.

Are you sure information was still not being written?

The D850 can produce enormous files, and the buffer may take a couple of seconds to empty, even though the buffer is not full.

There is a note about this in the first section of Trouble Shooting in the User's Manual :- page 324 in the UK Manual.

The section explains off/on clears the problem but you might loose whatever is currently being written to the card if you use it too soon.

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Leonard Shepherd
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snerkler Forum Member • Posts: 59
Re: A Nikon D850 rented for testing intermittently freezes

quisflis wrote:

Hey people, I am back from an extensive shoot of 5 days. I used the D850 and D500 with my 24-70mm 2.8 (non VR), my 70-200 2.8 (VR I) and my 14-24mm 2.8. I specially bought two new cards for the D850, a sony XQD 128GB and a Sandisk 128 GB Extreme Pro, just to make sure it was a card problem.

I experienced the freezing a couple of times, so it still is present. When it happened I quickly switched the it off and on again. After that it would still need a couple of seconds to react again. It happened randomly, and the buffer wasn't full as I was not shooting on continuous mode.

So, yeah, unfortunately the freezing phenomenon is still there. I will be taking mine to Nikon service as soon as possible. I wish it would just perform like the D500, which is just a beast.

Are you confident of a fix from Nikon? I can still return mine for an exchange, but it seems pointless if the next one's going to be the same.

MOD TOF guy Forum Pro • Posts: 15,845
Re: A Nikon D850 rented for testing intermittently freezes

Leonard wrote:

quisflis wrote:

I experienced the freezing a couple of times, so it still is present. When it happened I quickly switched the it off and on again. After that it would still need a couple of seconds to react again. It happened randomly, and the buffer wasn't full as I was not shooting on continuous mode.

Are you sure information was still not being written?

Even so it should not freeze the camera. My D810 has never done that, neither did my D800e nor D300 etc.

The D850 can produce enormous files, and the buffer may take a couple of seconds to empty, even though the buffer is not full.

Not an explanation for what is happening, I'm afraid.

There is a note about this in the first section of Trouble Shooting in the User's Manual :- page 324 in the UK Manual.

The section explains off/on clears the problem but you might loose whatever is currently being written to the card if you use it too soon.

Yes it does but the camera should not freeze while transferring the content of the buffer to the memory card: that is the whole purpose of a buffer.

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Thierry - posted as regular forum member

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MOD TOF guy Forum Pro • Posts: 15,845
Re: A Nikon D850 rented for testing intermittently freezes

snerkler wrote:

Are you confident of a fix from Nikon? I can still return mine for an exchange, but it seems pointless if the next one's going to be the same.

I think we would have heard of lot of complains in this forum if it was a common issue. Chances are your D850 has an issue.

If it were me I'd do the exchange.

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Thierry - posted as regular forum member

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snerkler Forum Member • Posts: 59
Re: A Nikon D850 rented for testing intermittently freezes

TOF guy wrote:

snerkler wrote:

Are you confident of a fix from Nikon? I can still return mine for an exchange, but it seems pointless if the next one's going to be the same.

I think we would have heard of lot of complains in this forum if it was a common issue. Chances are your D850 has an issue.

If it were me I'd do the exchange.

I'm leaning that way tbh.

PHXAZCRAIG
PHXAZCRAIG Forum Pro • Posts: 16,844
Re: This thread is 5 months old - and

Sounds exactly like the problems with the D300 at launch.   Ended up being called Dead Battery Syndrome, but it turned out to me more like very sensitive to impedance settings.   Cleaning lens contacts as well as battery contacts helped, and eventually Nikon released a firmware fix that took care of the issue.

Nikon has a history of battery-related issues lately.  The D500 seemed very problematical with 3rd party batteries, and there is a clear difference in battery capacity % values when you move a battery from a d810 to a d850.

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quisflis Junior Member • Posts: 42
Re: A Nikon D850 rented for testing intermittently freezes

Leonard Shepherd wrote:

quisflis wrote:

I experienced the freezing a couple of times, so it still is present. When it happened I quickly switched the it off and on again. After that it would still need a couple of seconds to react again. It happened randomly, and the buffer wasn't full as I was not shooting on continuous mode.

Are you sure information was still not being written?

Yes I'm sure, because the camera would not even focus in those situations and in case of a full buffer it would still react normally.

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quisflis Junior Member • Posts: 42
Re: A Nikon D850 rented for testing intermittently freezes

snerkler wrote:

quisflis wrote:

Hey people, I am back from an extensive shoot of 5 days. I used the D850 and D500 with my 24-70mm 2.8 (non VR), my 70-200 2.8 (VR I) and my 14-24mm 2.8. I specially bought two new cards for the D850, a sony XQD 128GB and a Sandisk 128 GB Extreme Pro, just to make sure it was a card problem.

I experienced the freezing a couple of times, so it still is present. When it happened I quickly switched the it off and on again. After that it would still need a couple of seconds to react again. It happened randomly, and the buffer wasn't full as I was not shooting on continuous mode.

So, yeah, unfortunately the freezing phenomenon is still there. I will be taking mine to Nikon service as soon as possible. I wish it would just perform like the D500, which is just a beast.

Are you confident of a fix from Nikon? I can still return mine for an exchange, but it seems pointless if the next one's going to be the same.

I would return it if I were you. It seems like not many Bodies are affected by this issue, and the problem is, that it happens so randomly that you can't just reproduced to show it to the technical service. When I told my Nikon Service about it in January, they never heard about that issue. They had the camera for two days to check, and couldn't reproduce the issue. Obviously they didn't have time to shoot with it for a couple of hours, so my guess is, that it will be really difficult to resolve this problem anyway. So yeah, my advice to you, return it and get a new copy.

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Leonard Shepherd
Leonard Shepherd Forum Pro • Posts: 20,300
Re: A Nikon D850 rented for testing intermittently freezes

TOF guy wrote:

Yes it does but the camera should not freeze while transferring the content of the buffer to the memory card: that is the whole purpose of a buffer.

That may be your opinion, which I respect.

Whether what you say is the "whole purpose of the buffer" is debatable as during and after recording from the sensor the information is transferred to the card.

Card manufacturers quote separate speeds for reading and writing, which are often dependent on type of card and the price paid for the card.

The "trouble Shooting" section of the D850 User Manual starts by saying "If the camera fails to function as expected, check the list of common problems below before consulting your retailer or Nikon authorized service representative".

The instruction book then talks about "When the camera is on but does not respond:  Wait for recording to end. If the problem persists, turn the camera off ---"

I can very occasionally get the D850 and even less occasionally the D810 to not respond having first stopped taking photos for a couple of seconds. Once with old slow cards I even got the D7200 to it.

As the issue is detailed in the User's Manual, it can happen occasionally.

Whether the OP or anyone else has a D850 where the situation occurs more often than it should, or does not clear following the User's Manual guidance, is a separate issue to Nikon explaining occasional lock up can happen.

Nikon appear not to have included guidance on static electricity (perhaps built up from nylon clothes or a nylon camera bag) in the D850 manual.

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Leonard Shepherd
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MOD TOF guy Forum Pro • Posts: 15,845
Re: A Nikon D850 rented for testing intermittently freezes

Leonard Shepherd wrote:

TOF guy wrote:

Yes it does but the camera should not freeze while transferring the content of the buffer to the memory card: that is the whole purpose of a buffer.

That may be your opinion, which I respect.

Whether what you say is the "whole purpose of the buffer" is debatable as during and after recording from the sensor the information is transferred to the card.

It is not debatable. The buffer is a high speed memory , much faster than the card, and its purpose is to allow the camera to write data from the imager unimpeded. Since that memory is much faster than the transfer to the user memory card the "buffer" ultimately fills up at which point the camera slows down considerably. It will happen after fewer images if one uses a slower memory card but that's the only difference. Regardless there is no freeze.

This is how digital cameras have been designed for, what, 20 years, and this is how they've worked for all that time including all the D850 predecessors

The only difference is that Nikon has increased the size of that memory buffer with each new generation of cameras allowing for more pics to be stored before the buffer fills up. So if anything the D850 should perform better.

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Thierry - posted as regular forum member

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snerkler Forum Member • Posts: 59
Re: A Nikon D850 rented for testing intermittently freezes
1

Quick update, my D850 has frozen another 4 or 5 times today, each time for no more than 3 seconds I would say. Also I had a weird phenomenon where no matter what AF mode I selected it stayed as single point. For example I changed it to 3D and it displayed 3D in the top LCD and viewfinder, but the AF remained as single point. It didn’t have the dot in the middle of the square like 3D should, and it didn’t track or move the AF point around. Same happened for group and d9, d25 etc, I just saw one AF point in the VF. I swapped lenses and it worked fine, put the other lens back on and that’s been working fine since.

Think I’ve got a lemon and it’s definitely going back. Annoying thing is I’ve got an important shot this weekend and it’s highly unlikely the replacement will reach me by then. Fingers crossed these glitches don’t interfere.

Leonard Shepherd
Leonard Shepherd Forum Pro • Posts: 20,300
Re: A Nikon D850 rented for testing intermittently freezes

snerkler wrote:

Quick update, my D850 has frozen another 4 or 5 times today, each time for no more than 3 seconds I

This is what Nikon describe in the "Troubleshooting" section of the User Manual as"occasional".

I would treat 4 or 5 times in a single day as an indication the camera is likely to require a warranty repair.

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Leonard Shepherd
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