A Nikon D850 rented for testing intermittently freezes

Started Nov 8, 2017 | Discussions
MOD TOF guy Forum Pro • Posts: 15,846
Re: A Nikon D850 rented for testing intermittently freezes

Marek  wrote:

My D850 does the same thing. Sometimes the shutter won't release when I press it, after a second or two it goes back to normal. I'm an experienced pro, there's definitely something going on with the camera.

There are now several of you now who have had this experience. I stand corrected: there is something going on.

Have you sent the camera to Nikon for a check ?

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Thierry - posted as regular forum member

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quisflis Junior Member • Posts: 42
Re: A Nikon D850 rented for testing intermittently freezes

MarekGlaser wrote:

My D850 does the same thing. Sometimes the shutter won't release when I press it, after a second or two it goes back to normal. I'm an experienced pro, there's definitely something going on with the camera.

Did you send it to Nikon Service?

 quisflis's gear list:quisflis's gear list
Nikon D810 Nikon D500 Fujifilm X-T2 Nikon D850
jarek leo
OP jarek leo Contributing Member • Posts: 967
Re: A Nikon D850 rented for testing intermittently freezes

Perhaps you missed some of my messages in the thread so i will recapitulate: the camera was new and it is under full warranty. It spent most of the three recent months with Nikon Europe service and returned twice with the following statement: "After thorough testing  we discovered no irregularities in the functioning of the camera". Full stop.

The plan is we will be filming wat happens to the camera and the footage will be send next time with the camera to the Nikon service to prove that something is wrong. Nikon deny any problems with the camera.

Jarek

TOF guy wrote:

Marek wrote:

My D850 does the same thing. Sometimes the shutter won't release when I press it, after a second or two it goes back to normal. I'm an experienced pro, there's definitely something going on with the camera.

There are now several of you now who have had this experience. I stand corrected: there is something going on.

Have you sent the camera to Nikon for a check ?

 jarek leo's gear list:jarek leo's gear list
Sony a6000 Sony a7R II Nikon D850
MarekGlaser
MarekGlaser New Member • Posts: 13
Re: A Nikon D850 rented for testing intermittently freezes

quisflis wrote:

MarekGlaser wrote:

My D850 does the same thing. Sometimes the shutter won't release when I press it, after a second or two it goes back to normal. I'm an experienced pro, there's definitely something going on with the camera.

Did you send it to Nikon Service?

No, not at this point, it doesn't happen very often and it only lasts for 1-3 seconds. It's not something that can be reproduced as it's totally random. I don't think it's happened more than once per shooting session.

quisflis Junior Member • Posts: 42
Re: A Nikon D850 rented for testing intermittently freezes
1

MarekGlaser wrote:

quisflis wrote:

MarekGlaser wrote:

My D850 does the same thing. Sometimes the shutter won't release when I press it, after a second or two it goes back to normal. I'm an experienced pro, there's definitely something going on with the camera.

Did you send it to Nikon Service?

No, not at this point, it doesn't happen very often and it only lasts for 1-3 seconds. It's not something that can be reproduced as it's totally random. I don't think it's happened more than once per shooting session.

I will be taking mine to an extensive 5-day shoot, where this camera is supposed to shine: fast action with high fps and hi-resolution capture is needed. I really hope it won't freeze on me. I will report when I'm back!

 quisflis's gear list:quisflis's gear list
Nikon D810 Nikon D500 Fujifilm X-T2 Nikon D850
noflashplease Senior Member • Posts: 2,496
Re: A Nikon D850 rented for testing intermittently freezes
2

jarek leo wrote:

Perhaps you missed some of my messages in the thread so i will recapitulate: the camera was new and it is under full warranty. It spent most of the three recent months with Nikon Europe service and returned twice with the following statement: "After thorough testing we discovered no irregularities in the functioning of the camera". Full stop.

The plan is we will be filming wat happens to the camera and the footage will be send next time with the camera to the Nikon service to prove that something is wrong. Nikon deny any problems with the camera.

Jarek

TOF guy wrote:

Marek wrote:

My D850 does the same thing. Sometimes the shutter won't release when I press it, after a second or two it goes back to normal. I'm an experienced pro, there's definitely something going on with the camera.

There are now several of you now who have had this experience. I stand corrected: there is something going on.

Have you sent the camera to Nikon for a check ?

It sounds like a buffer issue. Shooting 46MP 14-bit RAW files at 9 frames per second would pose a formidable challenge, so I can only assume that you're running out of buffer. Maybe there's some kind of processing bottleneck. Every camera is running a little, tiny embedded ARM processor of some kind. I think there's a reason why the professional D5 has only 20MP and why Canon's 50MP monsters have much lower frame rates than the 46MP D850. Even the 10FP 24MP Sony A7III appears to revert to compressed RAW files after the first few 14-bit frames. That's how Sony dealt with an obvious buffer issue.

I think it's perfectly likely that your D850 is performing within manufacturer specifications.  Nikon service could be telling the absolute, honest truth.  I have a feeling that a landscape photographer might use a D850 for a dozen years and never notice a single buffer issue, and after all, isn't a 46MP sensor more suitable for huge landscape prints, or as a medium format alternative.  Just because you can use a D850 like a D5 doesn't mean that a D850 is a true D5 alternative.

MOD TOF guy Forum Pro • Posts: 15,846
Re: A Nikon D850 rented for testing intermittently freezes

jarek leo wrote:

Perhaps you missed some of my messages in the thread so i will recapitulate

I did not read the entire thread, Apologies if I made you re-write some of your messages

: the camera was new and it is under full warranty. It spent most of the three recent months with Nikon Europe service and returned twice with the following statement: "After thorough testing we discovered no irregularities in the functioning of the camera". Full stop.

Thank you for clarifying.

The plan is we will be filming what happens to the camera and the footage will be send next time with the camera to the Nikon service to prove that something is wrong.

Looks like a very reasonable plan. Good luck.

Nikon deny any problems with the camera.

And I'd believe them when they say they could not reproduce your issue.  That does not mean that there is no problem, of course, just that they could not make it happen again.

Just searched a bit and found another reports of similar issues In that case, the memory card was not entirely well seated in its slot. Moving out and back in the card several times solved the problem. Just FYI if you haven't tried.

Please keep us posted.

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Thierry - posted as regular forum member

 TOF guy's gear list:TOF guy's gear list
Nikon D810 Nikon D850 Nikon AF-S Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8G ED VR Nikon AF-S DX Nikkor 12-24mm f/4G ED-IF Nikon AF-S Nikkor 24-70mm f/2.8G ED +7 more
jarek leo
OP jarek leo Contributing Member • Posts: 967
Re: A Nikon D850 rented for testing intermittently freezes

Definitely not the case. I am predominantly a jpeg shooter and the issue has never been related to shooting NEFs. Worse than that - the issue is totally random. Sometimes the camera would shoot a fast burst of dozens of frames with no problem and sometimes it would freeze after s single frame.

Jarek

noflashplease wrote:

jarek leo wrote:

Perhaps you missed some of my messages in the thread so i will recapitulate: the camera was new and it is under full warranty. It spent most of the three recent months with Nikon Europe service and returned twice with the following statement: "After thorough testing we discovered no irregularities in the functioning of the camera". Full stop.

The plan is we will be filming wat happens to the camera and the footage will be send next time with the camera to the Nikon service to prove that something is wrong. Nikon deny any problems with the camera.

Jarek

TOF guy wrote:

Marek wrote:

My D850 does the same thing. Sometimes the shutter won't release when I press it, after a second or two it goes back to normal. I'm an experienced pro, there's definitely something going on with the camera.

There are now several of you now who have had this experience. I stand corrected: there is something going on.

Have you sent the camera to Nikon for a check ?

It sounds like a buffer issue. Shooting 46MP 14-bit RAW files at 9 frames per second would pose a formidable challenge, so I can only assume that you're running out of buffer. Maybe there's some kind of processing bottleneck. Every camera is running a little, tiny embedded ARM processor of some kind. I think there's a reason why the professional D5 has only 20MP and why Canon's 50MP monsters have much lower frame rates than the 46MP D850. Even the 10FP 24MP Sony A7III appears to revert to compressed RAW files after the first few 14-bit frames. That's how Sony dealt with an obvious buffer issue.

I think it's perfectly likely that your D850 is performing within manufacturer specifications. Nikon service could be telling the absolute, honest truth. I have a feeling that a landscape photographer might use a D850 for a dozen years and never notice a single buffer issue, and after all, isn't a 46MP sensor more suitable for huge landscape prints, or as a medium format alternative. Just because you can use a D850 like a D5 doesn't mean that a D850 is a true D5 alternative.

 jarek leo's gear list:jarek leo's gear list
Sony a6000 Sony a7R II Nikon D850
ImageAmateur Veteran Member • Posts: 5,067
Re: A Nikon D850 rented for testing intermittently freezes

noflashplease wrote:

jarek leo wrote:

Perhaps you missed some of my messages in the thread so i will recapitulate: the camera was new and it is under full warranty. It spent most of the three recent months with Nikon Europe service and returned twice with the following statement: "After thorough testing we discovered no irregularities in the functioning of the camera". Full stop.

The plan is we will be filming wat happens to the camera and the footage will be send next time with the camera to the Nikon service to prove that something is wrong. Nikon deny any problems with the camera.

Jarek

TOF guy wrote:

Marek wrote:

My D850 does the same thing. Sometimes the shutter won't release when I press it, after a second or two it goes back to normal. I'm an experienced pro, there's definitely something going on with the camera.

There are now several of you now who have had this experience. I stand corrected: there is something going on.

Have you sent the camera to Nikon for a check ?

It sounds like a buffer issue. Shooting 46MP 14-bit RAW files at 9 frames per second would pose a formidable challenge, so I can only assume that you're running out of buffer. Maybe there's some kind of processing bottleneck. Every camera is running a little, tiny embedded ARM processor of some kind. I think there's a reason why the professional D5 has only 20MP and why Canon's 50MP monsters have much lower frame rates than the 46MP D850. Even the 10FP 24MP Sony A7III appears to revert to compressed RAW files after the first few 14-bit frames. That's how Sony dealt with an obvious buffer issue.

I think it's perfectly likely that your D850 is performing within manufacturer specifications. Nikon service could be telling the absolute, honest truth. I have a feeling that a landscape photographer might use a D850 for a dozen years and never notice a single buffer issue, and after all, isn't a 46MP sensor more suitable for huge landscape prints, or as a medium format alternative. Just because you can use a D850 like a D5 doesn't mean that a D850 is a true D5 alternative.

I think that you have pointed out the strongest possibility / cause.

Well done.

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Wishing You Good Light.

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jarek leo
OP jarek leo Contributing Member • Posts: 967
Re: A Nikon D850 rented for testing intermittently freezes

Just to reiterate: I am mostly a slow jpeg shooter and do not need anything nearly as fast as a D5. I use D850 exactly like i used my D800E/D810 - for macros, landscapes; I usually take one photo at a time, usually one photo is a couple of minutes. And the issue happens locking the camera for ever - until I "reset" it somehow.

Jarek

ImageAmateur wrote:

noflashplease wrote:

jarek leo wrote:

Perhaps you missed some of my messages in the thread so i will recapitulate: the camera was new and it is under full warranty. It spent most of the three recent months with Nikon Europe service and returned twice with the following statement: "After thorough testing we discovered no irregularities in the functioning of the camera". Full stop.

The plan is we will be filming wat happens to the camera and the footage will be send next time with the camera to the Nikon service to prove that something is wrong. Nikon deny any problems with the camera.

Jarek

TOF guy wrote:

Marek wrote:

My D850 does the same thing. Sometimes the shutter won't release when I press it, after a second or two it goes back to normal. I'm an experienced pro, there's definitely something going on with the camera.

There are now several of you now who have had this experience. I stand corrected: there is something going on.

Have you sent the camera to Nikon for a check ?

It sounds like a buffer issue. Shooting 46MP 14-bit RAW files at 9 frames per second would pose a formidable challenge, so I can only assume that you're running out of buffer. Maybe there's some kind of processing bottleneck. Every camera is running a little, tiny embedded ARM processor of some kind. I think there's a reason why the professional D5 has only 20MP and why Canon's 50MP monsters have much lower frame rates than the 46MP D850. Even the 10FP 24MP Sony A7III appears to revert to compressed RAW files after the first few 14-bit frames. That's how Sony dealt with an obvious buffer issue.

I think it's perfectly likely that your D850 is performing within manufacturer specifications. Nikon service could be telling the absolute, honest truth. I have a feeling that a landscape photographer might use a D850 for a dozen years and never notice a single buffer issue, and after all, isn't a 46MP sensor more suitable for huge landscape prints, or as a medium format alternative. Just because you can use a D850 like a D5 doesn't mean that a D850 is a true D5 alternative.

I think that you have pointed out the strongest possibility / cause.

Well done.

 jarek leo's gear list:jarek leo's gear list
Sony a6000 Sony a7R II Nikon D850
noflashplease Senior Member • Posts: 2,496
Re: A Nikon D850 rented for testing intermittently freezes

jarek leo wrote:

Just to reiterate: I am mostly a slow jpeg shooter and do not need anything nearly as fast as a D5. I use D850 exactly like i used my D800E/D810 - for macros, landscapes; I usually take one photo at a time, usually one photo is a couple of minutes. And the issue happens locking the camera for ever - until I "reset" it somehow.

Jarek

It sounds like you might have an issue with the camera falling into "standby" if you're taking so long between shots.  Personally, I tend to power off my D7000, as standby doesn't seem to save any battery life or time as compared to a proper shutdown.  It's possible that multiple standby cycles might result in the sort of intermittent freeze you're talking about.  Just make sure to turn the camera on and off between shots.

Personally, I have no idea how the little proprietary "operating system" in a DSLR functions.  Does turning the camera on/off result in a boot cycle?  Is "standby" the equivalent of "sleep" or "hibernate?"  It's possible that there's no functional difference between On/Off and standby mode?  Some (most?) embedded devices never reboot unless you perform a reset or hard restart?   I really don't know.

Your issue might be very hard to recreate, even for Nikon techs.  I'm not saying that you don't have a problem, just that it might be very hard to trace due to your particular usage pattern.  Is it a hardware issue or a firmware issue?  Generally speaking, this doesn't appear to be a widely reported issue and you might be the first, and possibly the only user to have this problem.  Personally, I can't imagine spending $3,300 on a camera to shoot .jpegs?  I shoot RAW, especially for (manual focus) macro and landscapes, and since most of my work is at base ISO, I shoot 14-bit NEF files.  I use AF bursts for sports, theater, circus arts and dance, typically in low light, where shooting RAW files is absolutely mandatory, as far as I'm concerned.  I still haven't embraced the High ISO rationale of 12-bit NEF files, but that's another issue.

noflashplease Senior Member • Posts: 2,496
Re: A Nikon D850 rented for testing intermittently freezes
1

TOF guy wrote:

jarek leo wrote:

Perhaps you missed some of my messages in the thread so i will recapitulate

I did not read the entire thread, Apologies if I made you re-write some of your messages

: the camera was new and it is under full warranty. It spent most of the three recent months with Nikon Europe service and returned twice with the following statement: "After thorough testing we discovered no irregularities in the functioning of the camera". Full stop.

Thank you for clarifying.

The plan is we will be filming what happens to the camera and the footage will be send next time with the camera to the Nikon service to prove that something is wrong.

Looks like a very reasonable plan. Good luck.

Nikon deny any problems with the camera.

And I'd believe them when they say they could not reproduce your issue. That does not mean that there is no problem, of course, just that they could not make it happen again.

Just searched a bit and found another reports of similar issues In that case, the memory card was not entirely well seated in its slot. Moving out and back in the card several times solved the problem. Just FYI if you haven't tried.

Please keep us posted.

I considered the possibility of an issue with storage media.  A corrupted XQD card or SD card?  Actually, a bad batch of XQD cards could go largely undetected for months because so very few are sold.  Most users probably don't have a large collection of XQD cards to test.  Even with SD cards, I tend to be very careful, going to the extent of benchmarking each new card before it goes into a camera.

I also thought about the issue of mixing and matching storage media.  People didn't seem to have had problems in previous generations of Nikons (and Canon 5D series) with files being written to cards with two different technologies - CF cards being IDE based and SD being SATA based.  I'd think that two SATA based formats (XQD and SD) would be less potentially problematic.

As far as seating issues, the broad, flat contacts on SD cards look a lot less problematic that all of those fragile pins on CF cards, although the multiple small contacts on XQD cards look a bit fragile.  With a new technology with limited adoption, I'd be a little suspicious of the XQD slot or a potentially damaged contact on a card.  The little contacts are shrouded so it might be hard to spot.  I'd normally doubt a factory misaligned card reader in a Nikon body, but after nonstandard D750 hotshoe issue, anything is possible, no matter how improbable.

Leonard Shepherd
Leonard Shepherd Forum Pro • Posts: 20,325
Re: This thread is 5 months old - and

- and - whatever the problem might have been the OP's gear list shows a D850 as currently owned and rated at 4.5 stars.

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Leonard Shepherd
In lots of ways good photography is much more about how equipment is used rather than the equipment being used.

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jarek leo
OP jarek leo Contributing Member • Posts: 967
Re: This thread is 5 months old - and

I have become a permanent user of this unit (meaning: I can it use for as long as I want but i do not own it) and the issue I am experiencing with it does not affect my overall rating of D850. For me D850 is arguably the best DSLR on the market today. But as I have never had a single issue with any Nikon digital camera since I left Canon in 2005, I am extremely surprised to see something that unpredictable. I continue taking photographs with the camera and the issue is annoying but not a deal breaker. With my style of shooting I can live with it. I am just curious how this matter unfolds and whether at certain point Nikon admits something is wrong with this unit. Let me repeat - I am not asserting that any other D850 unit than the one I am using has this issue.

Jarek

Leonard Shepherd wrote:

- and - whatever the problem might have been the OP's gear list shows a D850 as currently owned and rated at 4.5 stars.

 jarek leo's gear list:jarek leo's gear list
Sony a6000 Sony a7R II Nikon D850
noflashplease Senior Member • Posts: 2,496
Re: This thread is 5 months old - and

jarek leo wrote:

I have become a permanent user of this unit (meaning: I can it use for as long as I want but i do not own it) and the issue I am experiencing with it does not affect my overall rating of D850.

I'd say that anyone could look past an intermittent issue to use a $3,300 camera for free.  In the United States, we have the saying, "Don't look a gift horse in the mouth."

Leonard Shepherd
Leonard Shepherd Forum Pro • Posts: 20,325
Re: This thread is 5 months old - and

jarek leo wrote:

I have become a permanent user of this unit (meaning: I can it use for as long as I want but i do not own it) and the issue I am experiencing with it does not affect my overall rating of D850.

I do not know what the legal position is in Poland where you live.

In most of Europe if a product (new or second hand) is defective you have the legal right to an exchange or your money back.

I am satisfied from what you report your D850 has a fault.

This raises the question of why the owner has not asked for a replacement.

I have seen one report in the UK of a defective new D850. The buyer was lent the demo body that all UK retailers have. Despite the D850 being on long back-order at the time the customer had a new replacement D850 from Nikon UK in 3 working days.

Mild inconvenience for the customer, yes. Overall retailer/Nikon response I rate 10 out of 10.

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Leonard Shepherd
In lots of ways good photography is much more about how equipment is used rather than the equipment being used.

 Leonard Shepherd's gear list:Leonard Shepherd's gear list
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noflashplease Senior Member • Posts: 2,496
Re: This thread is 5 months old - and

Leonard Shepherd wrote:

jarek leo wrote:

I have become a permanent user of this unit (meaning: I can it use for as long as I want but i do not own it) and the issue I am experiencing with it does not affect my overall rating of D850.

I do not know what the legal position is in Poland where you live.

In most of Europe if a product (new or second hand) is defective you have the legal right to an exchange or your money back.

What money back?  OP has FREE use of the D850 body in question.

Leonard Shepherd
Leonard Shepherd Forum Pro • Posts: 20,325
Re: This thread is 5 months old - and

noflashplease wrote:

What money back? OP has FREE use of the D850 body in question.

I agree I should have referred to the owner of the lens.

Does the owner (possibly an employer) know of the problem.

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Leonard Shepherd
In lots of ways good photography is much more about how equipment is used rather than the equipment being used.

 Leonard Shepherd's gear list:Leonard Shepherd's gear list
Nikon D810 Nikon D500 Nikon D850 Nikon Z7 Nikon AF-S Nikkor 14-24mm f/2.8G ED +28 more
jarek leo
OP jarek leo Contributing Member • Posts: 967
Re: This thread is 5 months old - and

We have no longer Nikon Poland like we used to have. There is only Nikon Europe. The camera is owned by the photographic store that originally loaned it to me for testing - after my initial test it was sent to Nikon Europe service for the first time. The store's owner asked me to retest the camera before he could sell it as a fully functional pre-used one. I experienced the same issues as before so they sent it to the Nikon Europe service again. This time it returned after about seven weeks with information that the camera was tested thoroughly and no issues were detected. I went to the store as I was asked to check if everything was OK and the camera froze on the second shot we took in the store. We decided that I would take the camera again and use it heavily, documenting with a smartphone the cases of freezing to prove to Nikon Europe there is something strange going on with the camera. The memory cards used in the store were different than the ones I use in the camera. And to answer all questions that might emerge, the issue appears randomly and is not related to NEF/Jpeg choice, style of shooting, single versus continuous AF, single frame versus bursts, use of optical viefinder versus LIveView etc, etc. I have not discovered any pattern.

Jarek

Leonard Shepherd wrote:

noflashplease wrote:

What money back? OP has FREE use of the D850 body in question.

I agree I should have referred to the owner of the lens.

Does the owner (possibly an employer) know of the problem.

 jarek leo's gear list:jarek leo's gear list
Sony a6000 Sony a7R II Nikon D850
PHXAZCRAIG
PHXAZCRAIG Forum Pro • Posts: 16,868
Re: A Nikon D850 rented for testing intermittently freezes

MarekGlaser wrote:

My D850 does the same thing. Sometimes the shutter won't release when I press it, after a second or two it goes back to normal. I'm an experienced pro, there's definitely something going on with the camera.

This is exactly the symptoms my new D300 had, though only with a VR lens.   Turns out it was a combination of dirty contacts and overly-sensitive firmware.

Have you cleaned lens, body and battery contacts?

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Phoenix Arizona Craig
www.cjcphoto.net

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