Shutter Shock & Shopping for Used 2nd Camera Body

Wondering if there are there good or obvious best options for a shutter shock-less or shutter shock-minimizing used second camera body?

As a new GX85 owner, who up til now knew only that shutter shock wasn't something I needed to worry a lot about...
... I'm now digging into shutter shock details for real for the first time, as I've started to shop around for a used second camera body (for casual use, point and shoot use by family and friends, and as an M43 system backup)...
A few options have jumped out at me and I'm struggling to navigate the related shutter shock issues:

GX1 -- inexpensive, more extensive physical controls, and I can use the LVF-2 that I have for my LX-7, BUT many reports of it being shutter shock prone, with at least the 12-32mm and 14-42mm PZ (which they often seem bundled with)
>> seems the GX1 shutter shock issue might indeed be a significant consideration, typical of the problem in general?

GM1 -- super portable, more realistically pocketable with a 12-32mm or 14m f2.5 package AND EFCS which, at least shortly around the time of its release was heralded as making shutter shock impossible
>> which then makes me wonder why there 's a further 90% reduction via the new electromagnetic shutter I have on the GX85?

GX850 -- nice size between the GX1 and GM1, 4K photo and GX85-ish menus plus flip up LCD, bit expensive even if I sell the 12-32mm kit lens (have one for the GX85) though worth considering as a 'new' camera option -- BUT based I what can find thus far, it does not seem to incorporate the GX85 "90% reduction in shutter shock" electromagnetic shutter
>> so, without the GX85-type shutter, I'm not clear on how susceptible the GX850 is to shutter shock?

Other Questions / Other Options?

1. Does EFCS in general and as on the GM1 indeed completely eliminate the possibility of shutter shock, as I've read?
2. If so is the reason for the electromagnetic shutter on the GX85 to recover some of the functionality lost by EFCS (at least on the GM1 - EFCS seems to impose shutter speed/sync related limitations)?
3. Are there other Panasonic options you'd recommend for a second camera body -- I'm open to a wide range of options in terms of functionality/sophistication, as long as the size is no larger, ideally a bit smaller/lighter than the GX85 and used cost is under $400 and ideally under $200, also prefer flat-top range finder style and can live without EVF -- for example would a GFC1/2 make sense and how do those fare re shutter shock?
4. Are there used Olympus options you'd recommend that avoid significant shutter shock issues and meet my criteria in #3 -- as a Pen film camera owner I was initially attracted to the design of the E-P5, but then came across its reputation (deserved or not?) as something of a poster child for shutter shock, so wondering if something like the E-PM1 might be less of an issue or if the E-P5 issue is overblown?

Welcome any pointers or thoughts you might have -- goal is to get a reasonably priced second camera body and avoid having to deal with shutter shock concerns -- also, I recognize there is (and I've read) a lot of discussion on shutter shock, so am glad to dig into links which might help get me further calibrated on this issue to navigate the used camera body market.

Thanks/dave

Correction -- I meant GF1/2 above... just bought a GFC1 conversion lens, so go figure

Skeeterbytes wrote:

My experience:

E-M5 can and will exhibit ss, although I've never been able to faithfully replicate it so there's are seemingly random factors in play. Oly never provided an antishock mode as with later models, perhaps it's not possible to tack it on.

E-M1 antishock and silent mode appear reliable in banishing ss. For that matter I can't verify ss with the normal shutter but tend to use antishock mode when not shooting action. Of course sometimes the source of a soft image is impossible to diagnose with 100% confidence, making it a difficult thing to ID outside a test lab e.g., oscilloscope trace, etc.

GM5 has never exhibited ss. The shutter action is barely perceptible and it shifts to full e-shutter above 1/500.

Cheers,

Rick

Thanks Rick -- good to know those options are out there -- that said the E-M5/M1 are bulkier than I was hoping for and SLR not RF style. Your GM5 option would work well for me -- but I've yet to find much in the way of reasonably priced (<$400) ones that haven't seen pretty heavy use/abuse... though I've only been looking for a couple of weeks, so will keep an eye out.

I too was originally attracted to the Pen-F but ended up going for the GX85 for some specific features...
The classic design of Pen-F was part of what I found attractive and this drove me to consider a similarly styled used E-P5 (though obviously they have very different capabilities).
Wondering if the E-P5 firmware upgrade, which enables a '0 sec' anti-shock setting, was effective in mitigating shutter shock?
Found this DPreview report which briefly covered the update:

https://www.dpreview.com/articles/5423634132/olympus-updates-pen-e-p5-with-electronic-shutter-0-sec-anti-shock

Save up a few weeks more and get a second GX85. Nothing as easy as having exactly the same controls.

The GM1, GM5, GF7, GF8, and GX850 all have the same shutter. It indeed exhibits no shutter shock, but has some serious limitations. I have no problem with these limitations, but some people might. The GX85 shutter is advertised as an improvement over more traditional shutters, not over all M43 shutters; they tend to ignore the GM shutter in those marketing materials, as it is a bit of an outlier.

If you truly just want a second body, a GM/GF would be a great option. they are really quite small and capable. If you don't mind skipping the EVF on the GM5 (I use it sometimes, but it is really quite bad), there is the GM1. If you don't mind a more plasticky build (and a bit more bulk), you can look at the GF7, GF8, and GX850.

I am sure you can find a really cheap GF7 if you look. It is a more plasticky GM1 with a tiny bit more bulk, but it also gets you a flippy screen. I believe the GF8 was basically the same hardware with some extra selfie features built into the software.

The GX85 is not terribly expensive. It might not be so hard to grab a second one. The other cameras I mentioned above are smaller, but have a more limited shutter and no in body stabilization. That being said, if you want to feel something magically small, find a GM1.

Skeeterbytes wrote:

My experience:

E-M5 can and will exhibit ss, although I've never been able to faithfully replicate it so there's are seemingly random factors in play. Oly never provided an antishock mode as with later models, perhaps it's not possible to tack it on.

E-M1 antishock and silent mode appear reliable in banishing ss. For that matter I can't verify ss with the normal shutter but tend to use antishock mode when not shooting action. Of course sometimes the source of a soft image is impossible to diagnose with 100% confidence, making it a difficult thing to ID outside a test lab e.g., oscilloscope trace, etc.

GM5 has never exhibited ss. The shutter action is barely perceptible and it shifts to full e-shutter above 1/500.

Cheers,

Rick

My experience is that the 1/8s anti-shock on the E-M5 is fairly good at reducing SS, but is less effective on the E-PM2, which is quite prone to SS. The feel of the shutter in the much lighter E-PM2 body is much more pronounced, and I suspect this results in more SS with lenses and conditions where it is a factor.

Since getting my E-M5ii, I use e-shutter 95% of the time, and have not noticed a significant difference in IQ between this and the E-M5 with 1/8s anti-shock. That said, the e-shutter and silky smooth mechanical shutter on the E-M5ii are almost worth the upgrade alone, making for a much nicer shooting experience, with the option for full stealth mode...

To be fair, I use mostly the 12-40 and 7-14 with the E-M5s, and the 12-32 with the E-PM2, so I suspect the ultra light combo is the most prone to SS, while the heavier Pro lenses are less prone to SS.

Mark9473 wrote:

Save up a few weeks more and get a second GX85. Nothing as easy as having exactly the same controls.

Mark -- You're right, I should have put a GX85 body-only on the consideration list -- with a new body at $499 -- I was thinking, well, for a used option to make economic sense it should at least be at significant 20%+ less than new, but yeah one option that would be a swish on the learning curve would be to stretch for another identical body!
Part of the journey here was that I initially focused on GX1 with the idea of making use of my LVF-2 -- and pretty nice examples of those can be had for $200 +/-.  But certainly as I set my sights higher on more expensive GM options I should be comparing to GX85 body (plus there's the 3 year warranty on a new one, and I really like the handling).

dwkyre wrote:

The GM1, GM5, GF7, GF8, and GX850 all have the same shutter. It indeed exhibits no shutter shock, but has some serious limitations. I have no problem with these limitations, but some people might. The GX85 shutter is advertised as an improvement over more traditional shutters, not over all M43 shutters; they tend to ignore the GM shutter in those marketing materials, as it is a bit of an outlier.

If you truly just want a second body, a GM/GF would be a great option. they are really quite small and capable. If you don't mind skipping the EVF on the GM5 (I use it sometimes, but it is really quite bad), there is the GM1. If you don't mind a more plasticky build (and a bit more bulk), you can look at the GF7, GF8, and GX850.

I am sure you can find a really cheap GF7 if you look. It is a more plasticky GM1 with a tiny bit more bulk, but it also gets you a flippy screen. I believe the GF8 was basically the same hardware with some extra selfie features built into the software.

The GX85 is not terribly expensive. It might not be so hard to grab a second one. The other cameras I mentioned above are smaller, but have a more limited shutter and no in body stabilization. That being said, if you want to feel something magically small, find a GM1.

Great to hear that those GM/GF models and the GX850 are possibilities -- I'll dig into the limitations as part of the eval as I only skimmed enough to get a sense vs. GX85.  I do find the GM-1 size pretty interesting as a second body.  Thanks!

maltmoose wrote:

Once the e-p5 firmware is updated and you set to 0 sec anti shock then it is very effective. I got my e-p5 after the firmware came out so have only experienced no shutter shock on e-p5.

E-pm2 i also have. Once its set to 1/8 anti shock it reduces it. Some lens body combination make it more apparent. Some lenses ive never noticed it.

GM1/GM5 100% shutter shockless.

That too is good to hear re E-P5 -- my used camera body options, albeit with some modest trade-offs, are expanding.
I'm totally hooked on the Pen-FT film camera retro body styling -- and so I'm probably not exactly lab test objective on the E-P5 -- but hey as a second body at the right price, why not?
It's notable, and probably predictable, that when I looked into shutter shock over the past week or so, what I found when searching was a lot of coverage of the problem -- and only tentative coverage of whether the fixes were effective -- nice to get some calibrating input here. Thank you.

fishpix wrote:

Wondering if there are there good or obvious best options for a shutter shock-less or shutter shock-minimizing used second camera body?

As a new GX85 owner, who up til now knew only that shutter shock wasn't something I needed to worry a lot about...
... I'm now digging into shutter shock details for real for the first time, as I've started to shop around for a used second camera body (for casual use, point and shoot use by family and friends, and as an M43 system backup)...
A few options have jumped out at me and I'm struggling to navigate the related shutter shock issues:

GX1 -- inexpensive, more extensive physical controls, and I can use the LVF-2 that I have for my LX-7, BUT many reports of it being shutter shock prone, with at least the 12-32mm and 14-42mm PZ (which they often seem bundled with)
>> seems the GX1 shutter shock issue might indeed be a significant consideration, typical of the problem in general?

GX1 no....hard slapping shutter. I was so happy with the GX7 e shutter I hardly used the GX1 anthe LVF2 is a pain because it catches a lot on things coming in and out of a bag

GM1 -- super portable, more realistically pocketable with a 12-32mm or 14m f2.5 package AND EFCS which, at least shortly around the time of its release was heralded as making shutter shock impossible
>> which then makes me wonder why there 's a further 90% reduction via the new electromagnetic shutter I have on the GX85?

GM1 yes the shutter is like butter but is limited to 1/500 before switching to eshutter. But this has been my second body to my GX7. Small light but hard to use in direct sunlight at certain angles. GM5 would be better but too expensive.

GX850 -- nice size between the GX1 and GM1, 4K photo and GX85-ish menus plus flip up LCD, bit expensive even if I sell the 12-32mm kit lens (have one for the GX85) though worth considering as a 'new' camera option -- BUT based I what can find thus far, it does not seem to incorporate the GX85 "90% reduction in shutter shock" electromagnetic shutter
>> so, without the GX85-type shutter, I'm not clear on how susceptible the GX850 is to shutter shock?

This is the modern update to the GM1 with selfie option flip up screen. If you look at the GM series and this GX850 camera as using the v1 version of the new Panasonic EFCS shutter, consider the GX85 as the v2 version of the Panasonic soft shutter series. The GX8 and G7 were probably the last of the Panasonics to have that slapped shutter type.

Other Questions / Other Options?

1. Does EFCS in general and as on the GM1 indeed completely eliminate the possibility of shutter shock, as I've read?

if not completely, in my experience, nearly so.

1. If so is the reason for the electromagnetic shutter on the GX85 to recover some of the functionality lost by EFCS (at least on the GM1 - EFCS seems to impose shutter speed/sync related limitations)?

yes I think the GX85 and newer are the next evolution of the GM1 shutter type

1. Are there other Panasonic options you'd recommend for a second camera body -- I'm open to a wide range of options in terms of functionality/sophistication, as long as the size is no larger, ideally a bit smaller/lighter than the GX85 and used cost is under $400 and ideally under $200, also prefer flat-top range finder style and can live without EVF -- for example would a GFC1/2 make sense and how do those fare re shutter shock?

no on the GF1/2 Shutter shock

1. Are there used Olympus options you'd recommend that avoid significant shutter shock issues and meet my criteria in #3 -- as a Pen film camera owner I was initially attracted to the design of the E-P5, but then came across its reputation (deserved or not?) as something of a poster child for shutter shock, so wondering if something like the E-PM1 might be less of an issue or if the E-P5 issue is overblown?

Not as familiar with Olympus my sense is the Pens have issues...

Welcome any pointers or thoughts you might have -- goal is to get a reasonably priced second camera body and avoid having to deal with shutter shock concerns -- also, I recognize there is (and I've read) a lot of discussion on shutter shock, so am glad to dig into links which might help get me further calibrated on this issue to navigate the used camera body market.

Thanks/dave

Look at a used GX85. Then you don’t have to worry about dissimilar operations.  I am still a fan of the GX7, but it does have shutter shock, but I do like the 12 bit e-shutter, it works well in many, though not all situations.  I would still look for a second GX85, maybe the other color so you end up with one black and one silver.

Chas2 wrote:

Look at a used GX85. Then you don’t have to worry about dissimilar operations. I am still a fan of the GX7, but it does have shutter shock, but I do like the 12 bit e-shutter, it works well in many, though not all situations. I would still look for a second GX85, maybe the other color so you end up with one black and one silver.

Chas2 -- thanks for the detailed reply and sorting out the EFCS versions for me.
And yeah regarding your GX85 suggestion --- I'm not in a rush so I can certainly take the time to scan for used or new-unbundled / body-only GX85... (that said I may keep an eye out for one of the smaller less expensive shock-resistant alternatives).
Wondering if folks have any opinions on the no warranty / 'International' version of the GX85, and specifically whether it:
(1) makes it difficult to do firmware upgrades (I had seen something I recall as saying you couldn't upgrade through the US site and had to use the country of origin site)?
(2) whether the charger and cord were US-grid compatible?
(3) I can deal with getting an English PDF of the manuals -- are there any other gotcha's with the International products other than no US warranty?

rashid7 wrote:

although shutter shock issues seem (2me) to be rather exaggerated:

keep in mind that any GF model prior to GF7 will be susceptible to SS!

Roger that -- based on all of the input (thanks!), and scanning of current used/new market, I think I've got a pretty nice, reasonably wide array of options for a second body ranging from about close to $200 to $400-something (in roughly descending order by cost within brand):

1) Pana GX85 -- new kit, used kit or body only, and new-unbundled/int'l-grey market body only options (in the new kit case I'd need to sell the 12-32mm kit lens)... possibly the most sensible thing if I stretch into the higher end of the price range

2) Pana GX850 -- new kit or new-unbundled/intl-grey market body only alternatives (again in the new kit case I'd need to sell the 12-32mm kit lens)... tough at this point to save enough $ vs. GX85 unless I really thought the size difference was critical

3) Pana GM1 -- used US or int'l kit (typically will need to sell used kit lens to reduce cost), hard to find but less rare than those GM5 unicorns... I find the smallest-ever-M43? size an interesting distinctive, a bit concerned about fussy rear dial, like the clean simple look

4) Pana GF7 -- used or new-unbundled/int'l-grey market body only... a pretty interesting option, and very close to the small size of the GX850

5) Oly E-P5 -- used body only... 5 axis IBIS, plus one way to partially reconcile my original M43 purchase dilemma "I'm torn between the functionality of the GX85 and the drop-dead gorgeous design of the PEN-F***" ... but, do I want to learn yet another manufacturer's approach to menu system/physical controls in addition to Panasonic, Fuji X, and Nikon P

6) Oly E-PL7 -- new-unbundled body only... 3 axis IBIS, and similar design aesthetics to the E-P5 ... and while a step up in newness, also a big notch up in price for a bit less function

***PEN-F design attraction hugely influenced by sentiment, as my beloved PEN-FT half frame film camera still works... though my options for getting half-frame film developed and printed are, sadly, dwindling -- at least the initial film cost per frame continues to be 50%-off steal

Thanks again -- and certainly welcome input on above or additional options -- especially if I've got anything wrong re zero shutter-shock / shutter-shock mitigating status!

fishpix wrote:

Chas2 wrote:

Look at a used GX85. Then you don’t have to worry about dissimilar operations. I am still a fan of the GX7, but it does have shutter shock, but I do like the 12 bit e-shutter, it works well in many, though not all situations. I would still look for a second GX85, maybe the other color so you end up with one black and one silver.

Chas2 -- thanks for the detailed reply and sorting out the EFCS versions for me.
And yeah regarding your GX85 suggestion --- I'm not in a rush so I can certainly take the time to scan for used or new-unbundled / body-only GX85... (that said I may keep an eye out for one of the smaller less expensive shock-resistant alternatives).
Wondering if folks have any opinions on the no warranty / 'International' version of the GX85, and specifically whether it:
(1) makes it difficult to do firmware upgrades (I had seen something I recall as saying you couldn't upgrade through the US site and had to use the country of origin site)?

Great question and I am glad you raised it because now I will be careful. I have an International GM1, but have never upgraded the firmware.

The only reason I figured out this private party eBay transaction was an international/grey market to the US was going through the menus and finding video frame rates were 25/50 instead of 30/60. I really never use the video so I have not yet had any issues.

(2) whether the charger and cord were US-grid compatible?

Absolutely compatible. The charger is compatible with international voltages from 100-240, and switches automatically. The plug was US style two prong flat bladed plug

And my US sourced Panasonic equipment worked perfectly in Europe (Scandinavia and Germany), even though the voltage is 220. All I needed was an adapter.

(3) I can deal with getting an English PDF of the manuals -- are there any other gotcha's with the International products other than no US warranty?

I have come across none, other than what you raised. Never updated firmware, and never take video. Love this camera for its size. I do agree with others that the back dial is fiddly, and the built in flash is weak.