X-Trans ll vs X-Trans lll

Started Sep 25, 2017 | Discussions
afm Regular Member • Posts: 448
X-Trans ll vs X-Trans lll

Thinking of up-grading, but is there any real difference in IQ between the above sensors?

I am aware of all the advantages of the new camera line up, but it is IQ that interests me most as this will primarily influence my decision.  I would appreciate your views please.

Many thanks.
Regards. Alan

JayPhizzt Contributing Member • Posts: 846
Re: X-Trans ll vs X-Trans lll

I would say no. In general there is very little difference between sensors regarding IQ, other than noise performance, dynamic range and resolution of course. Lenses are more important when it comes to IQ.

 JayPhizzt's gear list:JayPhizzt's gear list
Fujifilm X-T2 Fujifilm XF 16mm F1.4 R WR Fujifilm XF 80mm F2.8 Macro +1 more
Artem Holstov Junior Member • Posts: 49
Re: X-Trans ll vs X-Trans lll
1

afm wrote:

Thinking of up-grading, but is there any real difference in IQ between the above sensors?

I am aware of all the advantages of the new camera line up, but it is IQ that interests me most as this will primarily influence my decision. I would appreciate your views please.

Many thanks.
Regards. Alan

Based on all of the available reviews and tests, I think that the only difference is the resolution. The dynamic range and high ISO performance are similar if not better on the older gen. sensors thanks to larger pixels.

 Artem Holstov's gear list:Artem Holstov's gear list
Fujifilm X-E2 Fujifilm XF 27mm F2.8 Fujifilm XF 56mm F1.2 R Fujifilm XF 18-55mm F2.8-4 R LM OIS Samyang 12mm F2 NCS CS +1 more
Elemanzer Regular Member • Posts: 166
Re: X-Trans ll vs X-Trans lll
2

The sensor is notionally noisier if you don't account for resolution, but if you scale X-Trans III images down to 16MP then they'll look less noisy than the X-Trans II 16MP images. That means that prints of the same size will generally look better on X-Trans III, all else kept equal. Even if you don't account for resolution, the X-Trans III sensor has the Aptina dual-gain stuff, meaning that it's much less noisy past ISO 800 than the X-Trans II sensor was. For a given format size, and up to a point, large pixels don't count for much on modern CMOS sensors (look at the 12MP A7SII: for stills, no better in low light than the A7RII).

You get about a third of a stop more DR across the board, again rising to half a stop past 800. Notionally DR is worse at high ISOs (crossover at about 2500). That's because analogue amplification ends at ISO 1600 on X-Trans II. 3200 and 6400 are actually just 1600 plus instructions to the RAW processor to push the file. That, of course, means more highlight headroom. Of course, you can do the same manually.

24MP makes a big difference for some things, and hardly any difference for others. If you only ever do small prints and/or portraiture, you won't care much. If you do large landscape prints, you probably will.

In sum? You get about what you'd expect to get by moving from the NEX-5N sensor to the A6300 sensor: it's at least marginally better at everything, but 24MP rather than 16MP. It's just a question of whether there's enough improvement for you to care.

 Elemanzer's gear list:Elemanzer's gear list
Fujifilm X-T2 Fujifilm XF 55-200mm F3.5-4.8 R LM OIS Fujifilm XF 18-55mm F2.8-4 R LM OIS Fujifilm XF 27mm F2.8 Fujifilm XF 35mm F1.4 R +2 more
Artem Holstov Junior Member • Posts: 49
Re: X-Trans ll vs X-Trans lll
1

afm wrote:

Thinking of up-grading, but is there any real difference in IQ between the above sensors?

I am aware of all the advantages of the new camera line up, but it is IQ that interests me most as this will primarily influence my decision. I would appreciate your views please.

Many thanks.
Regards. Alan

https://nwinspeare.com/tag/x-trans-iii/

Here is a nice article with examples.

 Artem Holstov's gear list:Artem Holstov's gear list
Fujifilm X-E2 Fujifilm XF 27mm F2.8 Fujifilm XF 56mm F1.2 R Fujifilm XF 18-55mm F2.8-4 R LM OIS Samyang 12mm F2 NCS CS +1 more
torppapa Contributing Member • Posts: 705
Re: X-Trans ll vs X-Trans lll
1

afm wrote:

Thinking of up-grading, but is there any real difference in IQ between the above sensors?

I am aware of all the advantages of the new camera line up, but it is IQ that interests me most as this will primarily influence my decision. I would appreciate your views please.

Many thanks.
Regards. Alan

In my opinion there are no significant changes between II and III except one.

Waxy skins at higher ISOs are mostly gone. I say mostly, because the rendering is much better than with Xtrans II but not completely since I'm still able to  produce waxy skins from time to time even with Xtrans III.

 torppapa's gear list:torppapa's gear list
Canon PowerShot G10 Canon PowerShot G15 Canon PowerShot G9 Panasonic LX100 Panasonic Lumix DMC-G5 +42 more
third son
third son Senior Member • Posts: 2,230
Re: X-Trans ll vs X-Trans lll

The foliage smearing issue has been somewhat resolved in X-TransIII.  I find that it is rarely a problem anymore just using LR but I find it does still occur in some instances.

-- hide signature --

-Paul

 third son's gear list:third son's gear list
Fujifilm X-T2 Fujifilm X-T20 Sony a7 II Fujifilm XF 100-400mm F4.5-5.6 OIS WR Fujifilm XF 14mm F2.8 R +15 more
Artem Holstov Junior Member • Posts: 49
Re: X-Trans ll vs X-Trans lll

third son wrote:

The foliage smearing issue has been somewhat resolved in X-TransIII. I find that it is rarely a problem anymore just using LR but I find it does still occur in some instances.

This is not a sensor problem. It may have been resolved somewhat when using LR because Adobe have been making updates.

 Artem Holstov's gear list:Artem Holstov's gear list
Fujifilm X-E2 Fujifilm XF 27mm F2.8 Fujifilm XF 56mm F1.2 R Fujifilm XF 18-55mm F2.8-4 R LM OIS Samyang 12mm F2 NCS CS +1 more
JS Burnie
JS Burnie Veteran Member • Posts: 3,876
Re: X-Trans ll vs X-Trans lll

Could be that the higher pixel density of the xtrans III sensor makes images less prone to worming.  I don't see that Abode has made any significant changes, but I'm using xtrans II.

 JS Burnie's gear list:JS Burnie's gear list
Fujifilm X-T1 Fujifilm X-E2 Fujifilm X-E3 Fujifilm X-H1 Fujifilm XF 23mm F1.4 R +5 more
OP afm Regular Member • Posts: 448
Re: X-Trans ll vs X-Trans lll

Thank you very much for that, as you said, a nice article.  Thank  you also to everyone who kindly replied and provided most helpful comments.

Much appreciated.

Regards. Alan

DarnGoodPhotos Veteran Member • Posts: 8,255
Re: X-Trans ll vs X-Trans lll

If you are a JPG shooter the greatest improvement is that the high-ISO waxy skintones have been significantly reduced. Plus you get Acros.

-- hide signature --

www.darngoodphotos.com

 DarnGoodPhotos's gear list:DarnGoodPhotos's gear list
Fujifilm X-Pro1 Fujifilm X-Pro2 Fujifilm XF 35mm F1.4 R Fujifilm XF 55-200mm F3.5-4.8 R LM OIS Fujifilm XF 27mm F2.8 +3 more
John Motts Veteran Member • Posts: 5,606
Re: X-Trans ll vs X-Trans lll
1

The biggest difference comes in low light and higher ISOs. The new sensor is a real improvement in terms of noise and overall image quality at higher ISOs.

Sure there will be those who say there is more noise on the newer sensor - this is absolutely not the case.  When compared side by side, size for size, the new sensor is a very significant improvement.

Below say 1600 I'm not sure you'll notice a big difference, although the extra resolution is significant for larger reproduction and cropping.

(I have both)

OP afm Regular Member • Posts: 448
Re: X-Trans ll vs X-Trans lll

Thanks to you John and others who have responded. Most helpful.

Regards. Alan

DarnGoodPhotos Veteran Member • Posts: 8,255
Re: X-Trans ll vs X-Trans lll

I agree with John about one stop better performance; ISO12800 on X-Trans3 is as good as ISO6400 ion the XTrans2

-- hide signature --

www.darngoodphotos.com

 DarnGoodPhotos's gear list:DarnGoodPhotos's gear list
Fujifilm X-Pro1 Fujifilm X-Pro2 Fujifilm XF 35mm F1.4 R Fujifilm XF 55-200mm F3.5-4.8 R LM OIS Fujifilm XF 27mm F2.8 +3 more
ukeolo Regular Member • Posts: 181
Re: X-Trans ll vs X-Trans lll

I found this sentence in a review of the x-e3 that raises some concern on X-Trans III rendering compared to X-Trans II: "Nonetheless, I believe that sensor’s output looked much more analog than the newer ones" (https://www.thephoblographer.com/2017/09/21/first-impressions-fujifilm-x-e3-sample-images-included/)..

I am selling my x-e2 and pre-ordered an x-e3, I hope I will not regret it: not always better technical specifications lead to better results.. for instance I had bought the x-A3 and sold it since I found the new 24mpx sensor did not provide images as pleasing as those of the x-A1 or A2.

DarnGoodPhotos Veteran Member • Posts: 8,255
Re: X-Trans ll vs X-Trans lll

Many people think the X100 looks more analog than X-Trans1 and XTrans1 looks more analog than X-Trans 2, so that really is subjective.So assuming all of this is true, you either revert back to the first-gen cameras, or you accept the trade-off in exchange for improved functionality and speed.

Nothing wrong with staying with older cameras if you don't like the newer IQ. I stuck with my Pro1 over a T1 for just that reason. Now I have a Pro2.

-- hide signature --

www.darngoodphotos.com

 DarnGoodPhotos's gear list:DarnGoodPhotos's gear list
Fujifilm X-Pro1 Fujifilm X-Pro2 Fujifilm XF 35mm F1.4 R Fujifilm XF 55-200mm F3.5-4.8 R LM OIS Fujifilm XF 27mm F2.8 +3 more
torppapa Contributing Member • Posts: 705
Re: X-Trans ll vs X-Trans lll

DarnGoodPhotos wrote:

Many people think the X100 looks more analog than X-Trans1 and XTrans1 looks more analog than X-Trans 2, so that really is subjective.So assuming all of this is true, you either revert back to the first-gen cameras, or you accept the trade-off in exchange for improved functionality and speed.

Nothing wrong with staying with older cameras if you don't like the newer IQ. I stuck with my Pro1 over a T1 for just that reason. Now I have a Pro2.

It's funny. Similar discussions have been made in regards to the 5D, 5Dii, 5Diii and so on.

Myself I returned from 6D and 5DII to the original 5D for this reason. But I'm using also an XT2, so I have something from both worlds, old and new.

 torppapa's gear list:torppapa's gear list
Canon PowerShot G10 Canon PowerShot G15 Canon PowerShot G9 Panasonic LX100 Panasonic Lumix DMC-G5 +42 more
Iuvenis Senior Member • Posts: 1,084
Re: X-Trans ll vs X-Trans lll
1

Not my experience. I think the X-Trans III is noticeably better than X-Trans II, and that it looks just as analogue.

 Iuvenis's gear list:Iuvenis's gear list
Fujifilm X-T2 Fujifilm XF 16mm F1.4 R WR Fujifilm XF 56mm F1.2 R Samyang 12mm F2 NCS CS XF 90mm +3 more
retroactivity Regular Member • Posts: 228
Re: X-Trans ll vs X-Trans lll
3

If you compare any 2 cameras on DPreviews test scene widget, XTrans 3 clearly resolves more fine detain than XTrans2. Better low light performance is less clear and more subject to debate.

 retroactivity's gear list:retroactivity's gear list
Fujifilm X-E1 Fujifilm X-E2 Fujifilm XF 18-55mm F2.8-4 R LM OIS Fujifilm XF 27mm F2.8 Fujifilm XF 35mm F1.4 R +1 more
Joachim Gerstl
Joachim Gerstl Veteran Member • Posts: 8,037
Re: X-Trans ll vs X-Trans lll
1

Artem Holstov wrote:

afm wrote:

Thinking of up-grading, but is there any real difference in IQ between the above sensors?

I am aware of all the advantages of the new camera line up, but it is IQ that interests me most as this will primarily influence my decision. I would appreciate your views please.

Many thanks.
Regards. Alan

Based on all of the available reviews and tests, I think that the only difference is the resolution. The dynamic range and high ISO performance are similar if not better on the older gen. sensors thanks to larger pixels.

Based on my experience (side by side shooting with the X Pro-2 and X-T1) the dynamic range of the 24MP sensor is significantly. Resolution obviously is better and noise performance is at least at the same level or slightly better.

-- hide signature --
 Joachim Gerstl's gear list:Joachim Gerstl's gear list
Fujifilm X100F Fujifilm X-Pro2 Fujifilm XF 14mm F2.8 R Fujifilm XF 35mm F1.4 R Fujifilm XF 23mm F1.4 R +7 more
Keyboard shortcuts:
FForum MMy threads