Canon XC10?

[Owenmorris]

Yes, hello again, clever forum people,

I asked a question here a day or so ago re: advice on video recorder.....here's a wee bit of my post:

I’m an amateur photographer, with some experience of Canon DSLRs and lenses etc. But I have virtually zero experience and knowledge of good/semi-pro video recording systems and set ups.

Starting next month, I’m wanting to document a project my wife is undertaking over the next three or so years. The project will involve (probably) a fair amount of uneventful “at home” documentary footage, as well as multiple overseas locations….visiting various potential sites for her project as well as interviewing various participants.

Anyway...this Canon XC10 is relatively inexpensive, and for a video novice like myself, seems fairly idiot proof.....from what I've read it would seem to do all the things I need just now.

I do like the idea of having a non DSLR video recorder to hand all the time etc.....

If I bought myself an XC10, do you think it would be a potentially smart decision....or a dumb decision? (and if dumb, what might be better alternatives?)...

Thanks again....

 

[Ludvig]

I had the XC10 a year or so ago. The image quality is very good, I liked the handling of the cam with the rotating grip and it's small and easy to bring everywhere.

The problem I had with the cam was the Canon MXF files. I couldn't find a decent converter for the files and Canon does not provide one with the camcorder, so it went back to the shop. I later found out that both Handbrake and ffmpeg will convert the files. If you use Premiere Pro CC it will open the files, but I'm using the CS6 version, so no go. Using a trial version of Premiere Media Encoder made some really nice files, but of course that software was just for 30 days.

Another problem (for me) was the noise reduction above ISO4000. You can not configure the noise reduction settings, and the footage recorded at about ISO4000 and higher was just too soft.

But if you can handle the files and don't need to shoot in very dark environments, I think it's an excellent camcorder. EOSHD had a review a couple of months ago comparing it to the Sony RX10-III. I can't add the link here (banned domain), but they say the XC10 is very underrated.

A firmware added Mp4 recording for FHD but not for 4K/UHD. If they had added a decent UHD Mp4 codec and the possibility to adjust the noise reduction I think I would have bought it again. Maybe the next version will fix that...

The battery is the same as the 5D and 7D series (and more I guess), it can use the GP-E2 GPS receiver and you can select EOS Picture Styles that are very similar to the DSLR's. The Wide DR Picture Style is really nice and something I miss on my 5D-IV.

That was just an overview of my opinions of the camcorder.

 

[Owenmorris]

Hello Ludvig,

Thanks for your reply. I think I'm going to give it a try....see how I get on with it. And, if I don't get on too well with it, I'll probably invest in a 5Dmk iv....tho I understand this has it's own quirks re 4k coding etc.....

But I do think the XC10 could possibly be just what I need at the moment.

Thanks again...

 

[Ludvig]

You didn't say what video editor you are using, but here is a link to a MXF file for you to test so you don't end up in the same situation as me (couldn't convert the files!). The MXF file is a original XC10 clip and the mp4 file is the same converted with Handbrake.

https://my.pcloud.com/publink/show?code=VZAeiy7ZfCvQYEyvfeVhjdcgvpllSyG4lW3X

 

[LingoDingo]

I know that some people love this camera, but I have yet to see any footage from the Canon XC10 that looks as good as any of the Panasonic or Sony 4K cameras. Everything I've seen from this camera looks very soft, with less than desirable color.

The Camera Store YouTube channel voted the Canon XC10 the WORST camera of 2015 and the 3rd WORST lens of 2015...

The Best and Worst Gear of 2015

The worst lens starts at 16:12

The worst camera starts at 21:55

 

[Ludvig]

I know that some people love this camera, but I have yet to see any footage from the Canon XC10 that looks as good as any of the Panasonic or Sony 4K cameras. Everything I've seen from this camera looks very soft, with less than desirable color.

Ha, I disagree!

And the video you link to is not very serious in my view (I have seen it in the past).

The Camera Store YouTube channel voted the Canon XC10 the WORST camera of 2015 and the 3rd WORST lens of 2015...

The Best and Worst Gear of 2015

The worst lens starts at 16:12

The worst camera starts at 21:55

 

[uncle dunc]

Three features you may end up wishing you had:

Power zoom. Manual zoom during handheld video is a great way to ruin a shot.

Viewfinder for outdoor use: You have to attach the "loupe" viewer thingy to the touchscreen, which means you no longer have access to the touch screen.

User assignable buttons: There are only 3. Check the reviews at B&H. Apparently, you have do deep dive into the menu to change basic settings you'd want access to during shooting.

I'd check out the Panasonic FZ2500. It has great video features, assignable buttons, viewfinder plus touch screen, power zoom with a 20x lens... and it takes pictures! One of the nice bonuses is the remote jack. You can buy an external zoom knob, mount it on the tripod handle, and free up your left hand for focus - touch focus or the focus ring. Panasonic autofocus is not great, but if you use 1-area mode and keep on top of it with the touch screen or focus ring (with a lever attached) you can get nice results.

 

[Owenmorris]

Well....I got to try out an XC10....and I've sent it back. It seemed nice enough, but when I tried using the loupe viewfinder attachment, I couldn't see very well at all. My 5Ds has a dioptric adjuster....so I can see just fine etc....but this thing just did not work for me.

Oh well. Thanks for everyones comments tho.

 

[LingoDingo]

And the video you link to is not very serious in my view (I have seen it in the past)

This is how the two guys from the Camera Store YouTube channel always do their annual best and worst lenses and cameras of the year, and they do mean every word in their video. ( despite being a little drunk when they filmed it )

Can anyone show me a 4K comparison video with the XC10 with either the GH5 or the A7SII, where the XC10 can produce a 4K video image as sharp as one of these cameras ?

I have never seen one so far.

- Guy

 

[mousse]

You may want to wait a little while. Canon is just about to announce new 4k camcorders

I'm sure they won't be that expensive. Plus they will have that wonderful duel pixel

autofocus that the XC10 does not. Check out Canon Rumors .

 

[uncle dunc]

I forgot to mention in my earlier post - if you want to rely on autofocus rather than manual focus or touch focus, you'd want Canon dual pixel autofocus. An alternative would be a consumer camcorder with a tiny sensor. A tiny sensor gives you more depth of field, which makes their (questionable) autofocus work better. The drawback (besides reduced sharpness because of the tiny sensor, and reduced low light capability) is that on most consumer camcorders, you lose manual control.

An example of why you'd want manual control: You're filming a complicated scene with a foreground object you want in focus at the beginning of the shot, and a background object you want in focus at the end of the shot. You could use touch focus and rack between the two that way, but you may find the camera racks past the second point and then comes back a time or two before it settles - focus hunting. With manual focus, you can determine how fast the focus changes, and with peaking, you can nail the focus without racking back and forth.

You also might want to adjust exposure to deal with backlighting or whatever. Some of the better consumer camcorders do give you a manual control ring assignable to different functions, but there's generally only one, and you end up fiddling much more than you would with a real camera with a full compliment of manual control rings, dials and buttons.

For interviews, it's nice to have two cameras, and it's nice if they match. You might check out the Yi 4k Action cam. It's tiny, and you can change the wide angle to a less wide angle. (Plus, it uses the standard 1/4" tripod mount, not the GoPro proprietary mount.) You might be able to use that as an auxiliary camera, as long as you can get the color to match your main camera. You can also augment your shooting with a smart phone if it's relatively new with a good video.

 

[Nodnarb]

Check out the Canon GX10 / XF400 that were just announced yesterday. 1" sensor, dual pixel autofocus, 4K 60p.

https://www.adorama.com/alc/canon-announces-3-new-4k-video-cameras-for-documentary-news-and-events

 

[JerryriggedTECH]

I forgot to mention in my earlier post - if you want to rely on autofocus rather than manual focus or touch focus, you'd want Canon dual pixel autofocus. An alternative would be a consumer camcorder with a tiny sensor. A tiny sensor gives you more depth of field, which makes their (questionable) autofocus work better. The drawback (besides reduced sharpness because of the tiny sensor, and reduced low light capability) is that on most consumer camcorders, you lose manual control.

An example of why you'd want manual control: You're filming a complicated scene with a foreground object you want in focus at the beginning of the shot, and a background object you want in focus at the end of the shot. You could use touch focus and rack between the two that way, but you may find the camera racks past the second point and then comes back a time or two before it settles - focus hunting. With manual focus, you can determine how fast the focus changes, and with peaking, you can nail the focus without racking back and forth.

You also might want to adjust exposure to deal with backlighting or whatever. Some of the better consumer camcorders do give you a manual control ring assignable to different functions, but there's generally only one, and you end up fiddling much more than you would with a real camera with a full compliment of manual control rings, dials and buttons.

For interviews, it's nice to have two cameras, and it's nice if they match. You might check out the Yi 4k Action cam. It's tiny, and you can change the wide angle to a less wide angle. (Plus, it uses the standard 1/4" tripod mount, not the GoPro proprietary mount.) You might be able to use that as an auxiliary camera, as long as you can get the color to match your main camera. You can also augment your shooting with a smart phone if it's relatively new with a good video.

I tried out an XC10 in store (granted, not a significant amount of time), and was surprised at how good the AF worked. I didn't see a lot of hunting. I'm just curious if anyone has used BOTH dual pixel AF and tried the XC10 for a significant amount of time in the field and how they compare the AF. I have 5D mark 4 with DPAF and I have a Sony A6500. DPAF is amazing, and even the A6500 is not too bad. XC10 still seems like a compelling option if the AF is acceptable.