Anything wrong with my argumentation?

Started Aug 21, 2017 | Discussions
DjangoChained Forum Member • Posts: 54
Anything wrong with my argumentation?

Hello everyone,

I am currently owning a Sony DSC-RX100 (1st gen), but I want to upgrade to a mirrorless ILC. While the RX100 is still a great compact camera, it lacks a few features that I want:

- no viewfinder

- I often find myself wanting more reach on tele side; more wide angle reach wouldn't hurt either from time to time.

- while the lens is super bright on the wide end, it closes down rapidly - more/any control over depth of field at typical portrait focal lengths would be great

- NFC/WiFi/Bluetooth or something would be very nice to have

- and most of all, I want a camera where it is easier to controll exposure manually. I don't care too much for the way the RX100 handles outside full auto mode. That implies that I need a camera with at least two control dials. And don't get me started about the pain that is manual focus on my Sony.

I have decided that M4/3 is not enough of an upgrade to my 1" sensor and that full format is too large and too expensive for me. I also don't want a DSLR, since I still care about weight, size and unobstrusiveness.

That leaves me with three choices for APS-C mirrorless cameras: Fuji, Canon and Sony.

I won't buy Sony again. I don't like the UX on the one I have, and based on what I'm reading, the mirrorless Sonys aren't much nicer to use.

This leaves me with the choice between Canon and Fuji, specifically an EOS M5 and an X-T20. Both cameras cost approximately the same, but according to all the reviews I've read, the Fuji is the better camera. People love the way it operates, the sensor seems to provide very good high ISO performance and DR (better than the Canon), and in particular, the lens lineup is excellent. In contrast, most reviewers advise not to buy an EOS M camera - one big reason for this seems to be that "the lineup of native EF-M lenses is severely lacking".

However, I think I'm going to buy myself a Canon... because I like the lens lineup better! I think I I want 5 lenses (not all at once of course - in the course of the next several years;)):

1(*). A travel/superzoom. Fuji has the XF 18-135mm which costs around 800,-€; Canon has the EF-M 18-150 for around 410,-

2. A 50mm prime for portraits. Fuji: XF 50mm f/2 for 430,-€, Canon: EF 50mm f/1.8 for 105,-€ (+120,-€ for an adapter)

3. A wide angle zoom. Fuji: XF 10-24mm for 900,-€, Canon: EF-M 11-22mm for 325,-€

4. A 35mm normal prime. Fuji: XF 35mm f/2 for 390,-€. My choice for the Canon is yet not clear - I could either buy the EF 35mm f/2 for 480,-€, the EF-S 35mm f/2.8 Macro for 410,-€ or the Sigma 30mm f/1.8 for about 450,-€

5. A 23mm wide angle/travel prime. Fuji: XF 23mm f/2 for 370,-€; Canon: EF-M 22mm f/2 for 200,-€

Now when I pull out my trusty calculator and sum up the prices for these lenses, I notice that altogether, the Canon set would cost me 1610,-€, while the equivalent Fujis would amount to a whopping 2890,-€!

And some of the Fuji prices border on extortionate. Seriously Fuji, 800 bucks for a travel zoom? When a Sigma EF-S 18-200 can be had for 150,-€? No way I'm paying that.

I realize that Canon doesn't have native EF-M options for 50mm and 35mm primes, but according to the reviews, the lens adapter works fine, together with EXIF data and auto focus. And the market for used EF(-S) lenses is much larger than for X-Mount, so my chances for striking a bargain might also be higher.

So, in light of the fact that my budget for photography is somewhat limited... do you think my choice for the Canon is the right one, or am I making a mistake somewhere in my thinking?

(*) The EF-M 18-150 can be had in a kit, while the Fuji is available with the XF 18-55mm. While the latter seems to be an excellent normal zoom, it's not what I want - that range of focal lenghts (and more) is very well covered by my RX100.

Fujifilm X-T20 Sony RX100
If you believe there are incorrect tags, please send us this post using our feedback form.
Doux Vide
Doux Vide Contributing Member • Posts: 922
Re: Anything wrong with my argumentation?
1

First of all I'd say that you are buying a lot of lenses and I bet that you won't use half of them.

But, well, let's assume you really need those.
The Fuji lenses you mention are without any doubt better that their Canon counterparts. I guess the build is better (I haven't hold all of them), as are the coatings and other details. IQ is definitely superior.

Now is the IQ difference worth twice as much?

Only you can tell. If you hesitate, than the answer is probably no.

Then a few words about the Fuji vs Canon sensor. Yes Fuji's sensor is superior, it handles high ISO better and has maybe a little more DR. But overall the differences aren't very important, it's unlikely you would notice them unless you shoot the same thing side by side. On the other hand, there are 2 points, that I think are more important, in favor of the M5:
1) Canon AF is faster than Fuji, especially in low light and when shooting video
2) Canon RAW files can be easily edited with any RAW processing software, while only a handful can handle Fuji's RAWs (and even less do that well). That said, if you only shoot jpeg, that last point is irrelevant (I personally like both Canon and Fuji jpegs but still prefer to shoot RAW)

So in the end, considering your requirements and hesitations, I would tend to push toward Canon. That doesn't mean that Fuji is bad or overpriced, it's just not what you need.

KCook
KCook Forum Pro • Posts: 19,409
Re: Anything wrong with my argumentation?
1

For candid and environmental portraits I'm happy with M4/3, do not need extreme background blur. "Entry" prices for M4/3 easily undercut Canon and Fuji.

Fuji's strength, for their lens line, is more with primes than zooms.

I agree that the adapter for fitting EF lenses to the EOS M makes Canon a good deal where you want a big variety of lenses. Although M4/3 is hardly shabby for native mount lenses.

As a street shooter I'm a bit miffed that the Canon M5 lacks a quiet shutter mode. This feature is now common on mirrorless for all other brands. The e-shutter on a Fuji is darn near silent.

The Fuji lenses you mention are without any doubt better that their Canon counterparts. I guess the build is better (I haven't hold all of them), as are the coatings and other details. IQ is definitely superior.

I would stand that on its head.  When I have tried Fujinons it's the build quality that really impresses me.  Not that the IQ is shabby, far from it!!!  But I think some fan boys over stress this, at least compared to M4/3 IQ.

Kelly Cook

 KCook's gear list:KCook's gear list
Canon EOS 50D Olympus PEN E-P5 Panasonic G85
beagle1 Forum Pro • Posts: 11,239
Re: Anything wrong with my argumentation?

DjangoChained wrote:

Hello everyone,

I am currently owning a Sony DSC-RX100 (1st gen), but I want to upgrade to a mirrorless ILC. While the RX100 is still a great compact camera, it lacks a few features that I want:

- no viewfinder

- I often find myself wanting more reach on tele side; more wide angle reach wouldn't hurt either from time to time.

- while the lens is super bright on the wide end, it closes down rapidly - more/any control over depth of field at typical portrait focal lengths would be great

- NFC/WiFi/Bluetooth or something would be very nice to have

- and most of all, I want a camera where it is easier to controll exposure manually. I don't care too much for the way the RX100 handles outside full auto mode. That implies that I need a camera with at least two control dials. And don't get me started about the pain that is manual focus on my Sony.

I have decided that M4/3 is not enough of an upgrade to my 1" sensor and that full format is too large and too expensive for me. I also don't want a DSLR, since I still care about weight, size and unobstrusiveness.

That leaves me with three choices for APS-C mirrorless cameras: Fuji, Canon and Sony.

I won't buy Sony again. I don't like the UX on the one I have, and based on what I'm reading, the mirrorless Sonys aren't much nicer to use.

This leaves me with the choice between Canon and Fuji, specifically an EOS M5 and an X-T20. Both cameras cost approximately the same, but according to all the reviews I've read, the Fuji is the better camera. People love the way it operates, the sensor seems to provide very good high ISO performance and DR (better than the Canon), and in particular, the lens lineup is excellent. In contrast, most reviewers advise not to buy an EOS M camera - one big reason for this seems to be that "the lineup of native EF-M lenses is severely lacking".

However, I think I'm going to buy myself a Canon... because I like the lens lineup better! I think I I want 5 lenses (not all at once of course - in the course of the next several years;)):

1(*). A travel/superzoom. Fuji has the XF 18-135mm which costs around 800,-€; Canon has the EF-M 18-150 for around 410,-

2. A 50mm prime for portraits. Fuji: XF 50mm f/2 for 430,-€, Canon: EF 50mm f/1.8 for 105,-€ (+120,-€ for an adapter)

3. A wide angle zoom. Fuji: XF 10-24mm for 900,-€, Canon: EF-M 11-22mm for 325,-€

4. A 35mm normal prime. Fuji: XF 35mm f/2 for 390,-€. My choice for the Canon is yet not clear - I could either buy the EF 35mm f/2 for 480,-€, the EF-S 35mm f/2.8 Macro for 410,-€ or the Sigma 30mm f/1.8 for about 450,-€

5. A 23mm wide angle/travel prime. Fuji: XF 23mm f/2 for 370,-€; Canon: EF-M 22mm f/2 for 200,-€

Now when I pull out my trusty calculator and sum up the prices for these lenses, I notice that altogether, the Canon set would cost me 1610,-€, while the equivalent Fujis would amount to a whopping 2890,-€!

And some of the Fuji prices border on extortionate. Seriously Fuji, 800 bucks for a travel zoom? When a Sigma EF-S 18-200 can be had for 150,-€? No way I'm paying that.

I realize that Canon doesn't have native EF-M options for 50mm and 35mm primes, but according to the reviews, the lens adapter works fine, together with EXIF data and auto focus. And the market for used EF(-S) lenses is much larger than for X-Mount, so my chances for striking a bargain might also be higher.

So, in light of the fact that my budget for photography is somewhat limited... do you think my choice for the Canon is the right one, or am I making a mistake somewhere in my thinking?

(*) The EF-M 18-150 can be had in a kit, while the Fuji is available with the XF 18-55mm. While the latter seems to be an excellent normal zoom, it's not what I want - that range of focal lenghts (and more) is very well covered by my RX100.

Canon M5 has the features and can easily use EF and EF-S lenses

www.flickr.com/photos/mmirrorless

Limburger
Limburger Veteran Member • Posts: 7,841
Re: Anything wrong with my argumentation?

Have you also considered Sony A7+16-35+Canon 70-200 F4 (needs adapter)?

Cheaper than the Fuji system but more expensive than the aps-c Canon.

I'd also have a closer look at the A6500.

-- hide signature --

Cheers Mike

 Limburger's gear list:Limburger's gear list
Fujifilm FinePix X100 Canon EOS 7D Sony a7 Canon EF-S 15-85mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM Canon EF 70-200mm F4L USM +3 more
photosen Veteran Member • Posts: 6,226
Re: Anything wrong with my argumentation?
1

Make your life easier and try the two finalists in person, with must have lenses first.

-- hide signature --

The best bokeh goes unnoticed, grasshopper.

 photosen's gear list:photosen's gear list
Canon EOS 30D Canon EOS 70D Canon EF 35mm F2.0 Canon EF 50mm F1.4 USM Canon EF-S 10-22mm F3.5-4.5 USM +3 more
Keyboard shortcuts:
FForum MMy threads