Any way to fix banding with Panasonic 20mm with electronic shutter?

As soon as I bought the lens I realized it has massive banding - big dark horizontal lines moving up the screen. I was just outside the store inside a mall and the salesman knew straight away what it was. It was the lighting combined with using the electronic shutter on my Panasonic G7. So I went to mechanical and that fixed it.

I assumed it was normal as he recognized the issue immediately and I remember seeing forum post titles about banding with this lens before (although that may be a different type of banding with certain cameras). Plus the shutter speed was particularly high so I assumed I would usually have it much slower, which helps.

But I would also like to use the lens for video, which uses the electronic shutter. Occasionally I need to up the shutter speed. So I tried at 1/160 and other speeds and the banding in video is terrible. It seems I can only go up to 1/100. It is rare I need to use faster, but sometimes it has to be done. Even at 1/100 at the very start, there is a bit of weirdness like the banding.

Below is an example of the banding. Ignore the overall quality- I quickly edited it to show the dark lines better which move up the screen. By the way, this is a brand new copy of the version II of this lens, but I left testing it too long to take back to the store.

Besides using a slow shutter speed does anyone know how to avoid this?

I can use mechanical shutter for photos but not videos, it seems banding is inevitable indoors.

Any experiences and/or fixes with this would be much appreciated.

Otherwise, it seems really strange this is the first time I have heard of this issue with this being one of the most owned M43 lenses; so could I possibly have a defective lens? In which case I may still be able to take it back to the store.

I just spent a while comparing it to my other lenses for photos and it is getting too late to keep testing video today. Before checking the video I was delighted with the lens after pixel peeping and was all set to have it replace 2 primes. But now I am scared I am stuck with a lens which is no good for video indoors. Please advise.

mentos77 wrote:

As soon as I bought the lens I realized it has massive banding - big dark horizontal lines moving up the screen. I was just outside the store inside a mall and the salesman knew straight away what it was. It was the lighting combined with using the electronic shutter on my Panasonic G7. So I went to mechanical and that fixed it.

I assumed it was normal as he recognized the issue immediately and I remember seeing forum post titles about banding with this lens before (although that may be a different type of banding with certain cameras). Plus the shutter speed was particularly high so I assumed I would usually have it much slower, which helps.

But I would also like to use the lens for video, which uses the electronic shutter. Occasionally I need to up the shutter speed. So I tried at 1/160 and other speeds and the banding in video is terrible. It seems I can only go up to 1/100. It is rare I need to use faster, but sometimes it has to be done. Even at 1/100 at the very start, there is a bit of weirdness like the banding.

Below is an example of the banding. Ignore the overall quality- I quickly edited it to show the dark lines better which move up the screen. By the way, this is a brand new copy of the version II of this lens, but I left testing it too long to take back to the store.

Besides using a slow shutter speed does anyone know how to avoid this?

I can use mechanical shutter for photos but not videos, it seems banding is inevitable indoors.

Any experiences and/or fixes with this would be much appreciated.

Otherwise, it seems really strange this is the first time I have heard of this issue with this being one of the most owned M43 lenses; so could I possibly have a defective lens? In which case I may still be able to take it back to the store.

I just spent a while comparing it to my other lenses for photos and it is getting too late to keep testing video today. Before checking the video I was delighted with the lens after pixel peeping and was all set to have it replace 2 primes. But now I am scared I am stuck with a lens which is no good for video indoors. Please advise.

It's not a lens problem. All my lenses do that under certain indoor lighting conditions.

I'm not an expert and don't profess to play one on the internet but I don't think the lens has anything to do with your issue. Unless I've missed something, you've already figured out the mechanical shutter solution to the banding problems with fluorescent lighting and electronic shutters. I think the lens is probably fine. So, keep the lens, and take the cannolis.

will focus wrote:

I'm not an expert and don't profess to play one on the internet but I don't think the lens has anything to do with your issue. Unless I've missed something, you've already figured out the mechanical shutter solution to the banding problems with fluorescent lighting and electronic shutters. I think the lens is probably fine. So, keep the lens, and take the cannolis.

I did miss something. Video. Not sure there is a work around other than changing the lighting, but again, it's not the lens.

I struggle to see how this can be a lens specific problem. Banding is caused by the readout not being fast enough when on electronic shutter. This can be mitigated by syncing the speeds (why there are PAL and NTSC frame rates). 25 fps for 50 Hz lights, 30 fps for 60 Hz lights.

I don't see how a lens would cause banding, unless it changed the readout speeds. The other theory is low light capabilities just makes the issue more apparent, but is not the cause.

tt321 wrote:

JakeJY wrote:

I struggle to see how this can be a lens specific problem. Banding is caused by the readout not being fast enough when on electronic shutter. This can be mitigated by syncing the speeds (why there are PAL and NTSC frame rates). 25 fps for 50 Hz lights, 30 fps for 60 Hz lights.

I don't see how a lens would cause banding, unless it changed the readout speeds. The other theory is low light capabilities just makes the issue more apparent, but is not the cause.

This thread's banding is nothing to do with the lens.

However, I believe the 20/1.7 may cause banding with certain camera bodies that's nothing to do with e-shutter. Link below.

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/56214749

Interesting that that there are possible electrical interference issues with Sony sensors used with this lens.

Yes, I agree that does not appear to be the issue in this thread, given it happens also on other lenses (just the OP did not notice before).

Have you tried using the "Flkr Decrease" setting?

From p255 of the G7 manual (motion picture settings, Flkr Decrease):

"The shutter speed can be fixed to reduce the flicker or striping in the motion picture.
Settings: [1/50]/[1/60]/[1/100]/[1/120]/[OFF]"

You should pick a shutter speed (or multiple of it) that works for the mains electricity frequency in your country.

Also, check p389 of the manual:

"Striping or flicker may appear under lighting such as fluorescent lighting and
LED lighting fixture.
• This is characteristic of MOS sensors which serve as the camera’s
pickup sensors.
This is not a malfunction.
• Are you taking pictures with the electronic shutter? (P179)
When using the electronic shutter, lowering the shutter speed may
reduce the effect of the horizontal stripes."

As just about everyone has said already, this is definitely not a lens or camera issue. The banding is caused by the A/C lights cycling at a speed which is not in sync with your shutter speed. Sometimes very small changes to the shutter speed will greatly reduce or eliminate the banding. For video you should generally not use high shutter speeds, but if shooting at 30fps with a shutter speed of 1/60 and you're in a country with a 60hz A/C supply, you should in theory not have too much of a problem. 1/120 should also be fine in this scenario as it's a multiple of the supply frequency. Unfortunately the shutter speed and supply frequency must be exactly in sync and often this will not be the case.

Some cameras, e.g. the GH4 and 5, have a setting which allows for very fine adjustments of SS to deal with this very issue. The G7 doesn't have this, but try changing SS as incrementally as possible to minimise the flicker.

The "famous" banding issue with the 20mm lens is something quite different. It only occurs at very high ISO's and most people never even notice it.

mentos77 wrote:

Just tried another lens. Same issues. Ooops. I cant believe I never noticed this before. My apologies, will try and delete this embarassing topic.

Delighted to be able to keep the 20mm though. Autofocus speed is fine and it beats my other lenses except the Sigma 60.

Why delete the topic?  I had never thought about banding when it comes to video because I rarely do video.  I just learned something.