Now that the SL2 is official, who's leaving the M?

Got too much invested in it (i.e. M, M2, M10, M3 and various lenses).  But I have put a temporary (how long that may last) moratorium on getting anything M-wise until Canon wises up and starts releasing more (and mean many more) quality lenses for the format.  And as I responded to in another posting, that SL2 is looking really, really good and at that ridiculous low price, the price vs performance ratio is exceptionally high.  Hello SL2 !!!!

nnowak wrote:

Jozef M wrote:

I take the good EVF of the M5 any time over the little tunnle vision poor SL2 OVF. And the M5 has a better sensor too.

The M5 and SL2 are using the same sensor

Well, if you read the second page of 'Hands-on with Canon's EOS Rebel SL2 / EOS 200D' here on this very website ...

... it says: We're told that the 24MP APS-C sensor in the new camera is essentially the same as the one used in the EOS 77D.

Now nnowak, were does it says that the M5 uses the sensor of the EOS 77D? You are making a very bold wrong statement here ... if I can go on the info of Dpreview.

Jozef.

HaroldC3 wrote:

Yes, I am jealous of some features of the SL2. If I didn't have an M6 I'd probably buy an SL2. But since I do have an M6 I don't think I can bring myself to sell it. Who here plans to sell there M-series camera and go with an SL2?

Most M-users like their cameras for the diminutive size and weight.  The SL2 has been leaked but none of the details suggest a DPAF and THAT would/should be the decider for anyone prepared to jump-ship.  The downside of the SL2 is that it takes EF type lenses - because most M-series users are investing in EF-M lenses.  The EOS M-series cameras (on the other hand) can accept any EF-S and EF lens via the Adapter... as well as the native EF-M lenses.  This is a wonderful thing.
.

The world's smallest FF DSLR at the time of release was the EOS 6D.  Here's mine with the EOS M6 last weekend.  Both are fitted with their fastest native lens.   LOOK at the SIZE difference!!!.
The SL2 ought to be popular because of it's size.  There's some significant benefits with using APS-C over full frame in relation to certain types of photography (eg Macro, Telephoto, Astrophotography etc)  so there will always be a market for smaller DSLRs that are well rounded and fully featured. For lansdcapes and travel photography the EOS-M series is astoundingly effective.  It can also manage Macro, Astro and Telephoto.  
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So in the end, the major strength that the EOS-M series is lacking is really the benefit that a Full Frame sensor DSLR can offer.  Those differences are speed and light sensitivity.  This is why I shoot with both a FF DSLR and an EOS-M camera (presently the 6D and the M6).  There are times when I need to shoot in extremely low light where an EOS M can't perform without additional noise.  There's also times when I can't shoot with a larger bodied camera ... such as certain public events where DSLRS or larger lenses are restricted and when I'm carrying heavy equipment and supplies - or when I'm traveling light.  I love my photography so being able to carry the right camera with me is important.  I think that for DSLR lovers, the SL2 is a great alternative to a mirrorless camera.  But the DPAF is a major deal-breaker.  If it has DPAF then the SL2 ought to be a winner.  The question at the moment is: will Canon bump it up with one?

nnowak wrote:

Jozef M wrote:

nnowak wrote:

Jozef M wrote:

I take the good EVF of the M5 any time over the little tunnle vision poor SL2 OVF. And the M5 has a better sensor too.

The M5 and SL2 are using the same sensor

Well, if you read the second page of 'Hands-on with Canon's EOS Rebel SL2 / EOS 200D' here on this very website ...

... it says: We're told that the 24MP APS-C sensor in the new camera is essentially the same as the one used in the EOS 77D.

Now nnowak, were does it says that the M5 uses the sensor of the EOS 77D? You are making a very bold wrong statement here ... if I can go on the info of Dpreview.

Jozef.

M5, M6, SL2, T7i, 77D, 80D all use the same 24mp DPAF sensor. DPreview hasn't written that the M5 uses the 77D sensor because the 77D didn't exist when the M5 was launched.

Well, it is a 24 APS-c sensor, but not the same, it's not true. Look at the DxO site and other websites.

You can have the last word about this, but I don't argue further.

Jozef.

Sl2 takes efs  lenses as well as ef

Marco Nero wrote:

HaroldC3 wrote:

Yes, I am jealous of some features of the SL2. If I didn't have an M6 I'd probably buy an SL2. But since I do have an M6 I don't think I can bring myself to sell it. Who here plans to sell there M-series camera and go with an SL2?

Most M-users like their cameras for the diminutive size and weight. The SL2 has been leaked but none of the details suggest a DPAF and THAT would/should be the decider for anyone prepared to jump-ship. The downside of the SL2 is that it takes EF type lenses - because most M-series users are investing in EF-M lenses.

Fair point, I myself don't own any M lenses, use my M5 entirely with EF lenses.  So I'm tempted by the SL2.

The EOS M-series cameras (on the other hand) can accept any EF-S and EF lens via the Adapter... as well as the native EF-M lenses. This is a wonderful thing.

Yes it is ^_^.

.

The world's smallest FF DSLR at the time of release was the EOS 6D. Here's mine with the EOS M6 last weekend. Both are fitted with their fastest native lens. LOOK at the SIZE difference!!!

.
The SL2 ought to be popular because of it's size. There's some significant benefits with using APS-C over full frame in relation to certain types of photography (eg Macro, Telephoto, Astrophotography etc) so there will always be a market for smaller DSLRs that are well rounded and fully featured. For lansdcapes and travel photography the EOS-M series is astoundingly effective. It can also manage Macro, Astro and Telephoto.
.
So in the end, the major strength that the EOS-M series is lacking is really the benefit that a Full Frame sensor DSLR can offer. Those differences are speed and light sensitivity. This is why I shoot with both a FF DSLR and an EOS-M camera (presently the 6D and the M6). There are times when I need to shoot in extremely low light where an EOS M can't perform without additional noise. There's also times when I can't shoot with a larger bodied camera ... such as certain public events where DSLRS or larger lenses are restricted and when I'm carrying heavy equipment and supplies - or when I'm traveling light. I love my photography so being able to carry the right camera with me is important. I think that for DSLR lovers, the SL2 is a great alternative to a mirrorless camera. But the DPAF is a major deal-breaker. If it has DPAF then the SL2 ought to be a winner. The question at the moment is: will Canon bump it up with one?

Word is that it does have DPAF, at least I'm pretty sure Kai (formerly of DRTV) said that.

-- hide signature --

Regards,
Marco Nero.

jonrobertp wrote:

Sl2 takes efs lenses as well as ef

I assumed it would (just like every other APS-C DSLR from Canon) but my wording didn't quite convey that. What I ought to impress is that in addition to the EF/EFS lenses, the EOS-Series has access to the native EF-M lenses.... whereas the SL2 has only EF/EFS lenses.
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And if the SL2 has DPAF, then it's virtually an EOS M5 in terms of size, use and practicality. I would imagine that the SL2 would still be slightly (noticeably!) faster and be physically more robust. If you were trekking into the Andes or attending a major football game as a fan, the SL2 would be your choice. Of course, for someone who takes photography seriously, the SL2 is still an entry-level camera. I'd be inclined to carry it as a backup to a higher model of DSLR.

To allay some of the speculation about what it has and what it doesn't;

http://www.canon.co.uk/cameras/eos-200d/specifications/

Still a pretty basic DSLR by modern standards, and a more basic feature set than M5. My M5 + 18-150 EF-M is significantly smaller and lighter than a 200D/SL2 + 18-135 EF-S, and apart from the fairly poor low light AF, I am pretty happy with the M5 so far.

Colin

Then there's the issue of sensor temperature during DXO's testing.  A mirrorless sensor is virtually never turned off so will run warmer during the tests and generate more noise thus getting a lower noise and/or dynamic range score that the same sensor in a DSLR -- unless the DSLR is used in live view mode.  If you are snapping with a mirrorless and want the higher DR of the 80D, turn it on only when you are ready to shoot.

I had the SL1 and now the M5 and will stay with the M5.  My crappy eyes and daylight shooting make live view screen useless (or a battery eater if I crank it up).  The EV in the M5 is priceless to me.

I picked up the SL2 on Friday. It does what I wanted it to do by providing a native EF mount to fill in the usability gab between my 6D and M. While it does that beautifully, especially with the EF 50mm f/1.8 STM, it has a number of issues (see my first impressions SL2 review). These issues show why the mirrorless M5 and M6 configuration is superior from a usability standpoint. I continue to hope Canon will release a EF mirrorless in the near future to resolve these issues.

ck_WTB wrote:

I continue to hope Canon will release a EF mirrorless in the near future to resolve these issues.

I hope they don't do that. What would be the advantage of an M5, M6, SL2 original M sized mirrorless where they only add 26mm more flange distance or only removed the mirror? You still need to have the immense flange distance of 44mm to make the EF glass to work.

You are still better of with an EF-M mount camera that is thinner because of the about 26mm shorter flange distance. If you want to use EF glass just use the adapter on it. In the end that would be exactly the same as a mirrorless with only EF mount or just glue/never remove the adapter on the camera and you have an EF mount mirrorless.

I'm not seeing the advantage of EF mount only on a mirrorless body. For certain lens ranges the shorter flange distance of the EF-M mount is an advantage to make the lenses smaller.

Canon just needs to solve the issues that are there and make it a better product. Also create some more higher quality EF-M glass. Creating an EF mount mirrorless doesn't solve any issues.