Olympus PEN-F vs E-PL8 vs E-P5

I have a few micro four thirds lenses and am looking for a new body. I've been using a Panasonic DMC-GX1 and was never really happy with it... I much preferred the Olympus PEN E-PL3 that I had briefly but returned because it lost the date every time I took the battery out. Somehow the GX1 I bought as a replacement never quite did it for me--I constantly have to play with colors in post processing, my panasonic 14-42 power zoom lens has focusing issues, etc.

The PEN-F looks nice but is awfully expensive (~$1000). The E-PL8 (~$550) doesn't seem to have great reviews. I found a used E-P5 for sale around $380 which seems more appealing, although I find it hard to believe that camera (or at least touch screen) technology hasn't improved substantially since it was released in 2013. Is the E-P5 still competitive or would I regret that body in a couple years?

One benefit of the new bodies is then I can get the 14-42EZ lens for a reasonable price with the current deals. Size is important to me, so I'm willing to lose some image quality to get a compact camera that I'll be comfortable carrying around with me during long travel.

Is it crazy to buy the Pen-F?

Is the E-P5 already out of date or still a good buy?

Sign up for email and text alerts at the Olympus Outlet Store for their next 20% Flash Sale.

http://www.getolympus.com/us/en/outlet

During the last sale 2 day flash sale that took place on 3/8-3/9 the Pen-F sold for only $767 and they had both the silver and black bodies available. The prices have been dropping as there is currently a silver Pen-F for $749 and that would be discounted even more during a flash sale.

http://www.getolympus.com/us/en/outlet/reconditioned-cameras/pen-f-body-silver-reconditioned.html

E-Px or E-PLx and Pen-F are two completely different categories. The first one are better compact-cameras (o.k., advanced compact cameras with changeable lenses), the pen-F can compete with 3.000€-Nikons or Canons and are an alternative to FF DSLRs.

I came from Nikon, I shoot 28 years and ended up with a FF-equipment with 2 bodies and 8 lenses, 3 flashes ..... and switched to Olympus Pen-F and 8 lenses and 3 flashes. In the meantime I also own a EM1-II .

These cameras are up to FF-DSLRs - with some advantages and some disadvantages.

So if you want to shoot like you shoot with a compact but like to have a better system, buy a E-px or E-PLx. This are realy good cameras for the money.

If you want to grade your photography up and want to have all (realy all!!!) the possibilities that a Canikon professional DSLR offers, take the Pen-F.

The Pen-F is approx. as small as the E-PL8.

I recommand the Pen-F - you will have more possibilities, more fun ...

twood0202 wrote:

I have a few micro four thirds lenses and am looking for a new body. I've been using a Panasonic DMC-GX1 and was never really happy with it... I much preferred the Olympus PEN E-PL3 that I had briefly but returned because it lost the date every time I took the battery out. Somehow the GX1 I bought as a replacement never quite did it for me--I constantly have to play with colors in post processing, my panasonic 14-42 power zoom lens has focusing issues, etc.

While not entirely the same spot - I was recently shopping for a new m43 body (as a secondary body to compliment my EM1.2)

The PEN-F looks nice but is awfully expensive (~$1000).

It is very expensive indeed for what it offers. I love the size, looks, everything - but won't pay the price.

The E-PL8 (~$550) doesn't seem to have great reviews.

I had the E-PL7 as my secondary body for a couple of years, and it is what I was looking to replace. The E-PL8 is essentially the same camera. It's not a bad camera per se, but for me it had a few "downers" that made me decide to replace it:

1. Ergonomics - It's a SMALL camera, and while it has tons of advantages, it means that in terms of ergonomics it is just not there. It has only one exposure dial (which is a big no no for me), and the buttons are cramped. You get the overall feeling of shooting a compact. I hate it.

2. EVF. It had none. Annoying as hell.

3. Flash - funny enough - it disturbs me more on my secondary camera than my primary. With my EM1.2 I mostly shoot my "good" pictures - landscape, wildlife, etc. I don't need crappy on camera flash for those. If I do some studio/event work I use a proper flash. But with my "go everywhere" smaller camera (formerly EPL7) - the lack of flash was annoying. I take it out on evenings and sometimes I want just a "crappy" flash photo.

I found a used E-P5 for sale around $380 which seems more appealing, although I find it hard to believe that camera (or at least touch screen) technology hasn't improved substantially since it was released in 2013. Is the E-P5 still competitive or would I regret that body in a couple years?

Keep in mind the E-P5 has outdated IBIS and no EVF as well.

One benefit of the new bodies is then I can get the 14-42EZ lens for a reasonable price with the current deals. Size is important to me, so I'm willing to lose some image quality to get a compact camera that I'll be comfortable carrying around with me during long travel.

Is it crazy to buy the Pen-F?

Crazy?! no.... it's a great camera, and if its your primary one - you get plenty of cool features with it.

Is the E-P5 already out of date or still a good buy?

I would not buy the E-P5.

But I would direct you in another direction. The GX85. It costs a lot less than the Pen-F, and it comes bundled in a very attractive price with the 12-32, which, while has shorter reach than the 14-42, is wider (huge advantage) AND, more importantly, is MUCH BETTER (The 14-42 EZ is a mediocre lens, to put it mildly).

The GX85 has the same form factor (give or take) of the Pen-F. It is AMAZINGLY comfortable to use and shoot with, it has EVF (though not the best one), built in flash, TONS of features, better C-AF than the Pen-F, supports USB charging, and has a lot going for it. 
It costs 697$ with the 12-32, and if you buy it now from BH - they offer it with a bundle that includes the 45-150 for FREE, so basically for 700$ you get the camera and TWO lenses. 
I would say the only REAL downside I find for this camera is the quality of the EVF. It's not the best. Having said that, it IS usable, and it is FAR better than the EVF on EPL8 or EP5 (which are non existent ;))

twood0202 wrote:

The PEN-F looks nice but is awfully expensive (~$1000). The E-PL8 (~$550) doesn't seem to have great reviews.

I've actually started with the E-PL7, very good little camera. It's got the 16MP sensor, 3-axis stabilization and it's so compact with the 14-42EZ to fit a pocket. I've recently upgraded to PEN-F, and I must say it's really great: it's got an improved sensor, 5-axis stabilization, EVF and a lot more controls and not much bigger.

However I'd say that you can take vero good pictures with the E-PL as well; if it's good enough for you to use just with the screen and you won't take handheld photos in low light, then go for it.

Is it crazy to buy the Pen-F?

it is quite expensive but it's design is amazing and for me it's second only to the EM1mark2 in Olympus range. But if you look for a very compact camera, I'd start with the E-PL7/8.

Thomas Traub wrote:

E-Px or E-PLx and Pen-F are two completely different categories. The first one are better compact-cameras (o.k., advanced compact cameras with changeable lenses), the pen-F can compete with 3.000€-Nikons or Canons and are an alternative to FF DSLRs.

Can you elaborate on why you feel the Pen F is in a different league?

I agree $1000 is just too much.  So get one that's been reconditioned.   I just did. $750.

http://www.getolympus.com/us/en/outlet/reconditioned-cameras.html

It is a step up from my EPL7... more than I expected it to be.   Larger than I expected, but I am enjoying shooting it so much I don't mind at all.

The E-P5 is missing a few of the latest features, as previously mentioned.  But as to its image quality, take a look at DXO's sensor ratings for it compared to the Pen F and GX80/85.  It has the same low light ISO rating and dynamic range as the Pen F and the Pen F has only a slight edge in color depth.  Both the Pen F and the E-P5 have overall higher sensor scores from DXO, although they are all very close.  And the IBIS on the E-P5 is five axis and excellent.  It may be slightly behind the newest version of five axis IBIS.

I have both the E-P5, EM-5 ii and GX85 and usually use the GX85 because it is lighter weight and has an EVF in a fairly compact package.  I don't see enough difference in image quality to lean toward any one of those over the other two.  The one thing that would concern me about the E-P5  is reports of control dials failing.  I haven't had the problem, but there have been enough reports of the issue for me to pay attention to the concern.

The other feature that leads me to usually grab the GX85 is the DFD for continuous AF.  It works much better than continuous AF on either of my Olys.

OpticsEngineer wrote:

I agree $1000 is just too much. So get one that's been reconditioned. I just did. $750.

http://www.getolympus.com/us/en/outlet/reconditioned-cameras.html

It is a step up from my EPL7... more than I expected it to be. Larger than I expected, but I am enjoying shooting it so much I don't mind at all.

That's a really good price on a Pen F.

I bought my reconditioned Pen F last year on a  sale last year and the 20% off price was about the same as the current price. I've never regretted the purchase and my PL7 gets little use since the Pen F entered my life.

gary0319 wrote:

OpticsEngineer wrote:

I agree $1000 is just too much. So get one that's been reconditioned. I just did. $750.

http://www.getolympus.com/us/en/outlet/reconditioned-cameras.html

It is a step up from my EPL7... more than I expected it to be. Larger than I expected, but I am enjoying shooting it so much I don't mind at all.

That's a really good price on a Pen F.

I bought my reconditioned Pen F last year on a sale last year and the 20% off price was about the same as the current price. I've never regretted the purchase and my PL7 gets little use since the Pen F entered my life.

Based on the current $749 price in the Outlet Store and if one is willing to take a chance and wait for the next 20% Flash Sale the Pen-F could be as low as $599.

...and whatever camera you buy will be based on a number of factors such as how the camera looks and feels, your preferred camera body style, IQ, and many other factors.  What's a good camera for one person, may not be so for the next.

As an aside, I don't know why you don't like the GX1.  Hell, I still maintain in pristine condition, both the GF1 and the GX1 and the IQ I'm netting from these ole' girls is nothing to laugh about - they are that good.

I don't have the Pen F - wish I did.  I do have the E-P5 and what a wonderful camera that turned out to be, with a better high ISO capability than "some" of my other brand APS-C sensored cameras - now go figure.  The camera is very good and thus some of the higher prices out there, although I must say, that you can do better than $800.  Here are some on eBay (both new and used).  Even new ones are going for less than $500 - and at those prices, yes, I'd highly recommend getting one.  You'll definitely be happy that you did.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2060353.m570.l1313.TR12.TRC2.A0.H0.XOlympus+E-P5.TRS0&_nkw=Olympus+E-P5&_sacat=0

Once the Pen-F comes down, I'll focus on getting one of those also, but right now, it's unfortunately too high a price.  Olympus keeps their camera prices high, even when competitors release models that are as good or better than what Oly produced.  But as you can see, it's good to finally see the E-P5 price coming down.

So, I'd enthusiastically suggest looking at the E-P5 and then get some good glass.  I currently am using the inexpensive, yet excellent prime - the Sigma 19 MM on mine and the results are stellar.

Good luck...

RSSrsvp wrote:

gary0319 wrote:

OpticsEngineer wrote:

I agree $1000 is just too much. So get one that's been reconditioned. I just did. $750.

http://www.getolympus.com/us/en/outlet/reconditioned-cameras.html

It is a step up from my EPL7... more than I expected it to be. Larger than I expected, but I am enjoying shooting it so much I don't mind at all.

That's a really good price on a Pen F.

I bought my reconditioned Pen F last year on a sale last year and the 20% off price was about the same as the current price. I've never regretted the purchase and my PL7 gets little use since the Pen F entered my life.

Based on the current $749 price in the Outlet Store and if one is willing to take a chance and wait for the next 20% Flash Sale the Pen-F could be as low as $599.

You are right, but one had better be quick to purchase, as at that price the limited stock of refurbished Pen F's would be gone in a "flash".....one would be in my hands, for sure,

rsmithgi wrote:

Thomas Traub wrote:

E-Px or E-PLx and Pen-F are two completely different categories. The first one are better compact-cameras (o.k., advanced compact cameras with changeable lenses), the pen-F can compete with 3.000€-Nikons or Canons and are an alternative to FF DSLRs.

Can you elaborate on why you feel the Pen F is in a different league?

Because the Pen-F can do everything (!) that a DSLR (for about 4.000€) can do, only in a smaller body. You have near everything in direct access, fast (only the ME-1 II is faster) .... I can work in the same (or a very very simmilar) way as i worked with my FF DSLR.

The E-P/L-concept is an "advanced-compact-camera-concept". Don't misunderstand me. These are great cameras but the approach is from a complete other side. You can do very much, but only when you jump down in the menues .. so you need time. That's not bad, that's only a different concept. It's easier. A good photographer will be able to do near the same pictures (beside the 16 MP instead of the 20 MP but that's only a small difference that most of us need only for pixel-peeping

For sure you can drive with a VW Polo from A to B but with a VW Passat you will be able to do it much more comfortable, safer, maybe faster .......

Thomas Traub wrote:

rsmithgi wrote:

Thomas Traub wrote:

E-Px or E-PLx and Pen-F are two completely different categories. The first one are better compact-cameras (o.k., advanced compact cameras with changeable lenses), the pen-F can compete with 3.000€-Nikons or Canons and are an alternative to FF DSLRs.

Can you elaborate on why you feel the Pen F is in a different league?

Because the Pen-F can do everything (!) that a DSLR (for about 4.000€) can do, only in a smaller body. You have near everything in direct access, fast (only the ME-1 II is faster) .... I can work in the same (or a very very simmilar) way as i worked with my FF DSLR.

The E-P/L-concept is an "advanced-compact-camera-concept". Don't misunderstand me. These are great cameras but the approach is from a complete other side. You can do very much, but only when you jump down in the menues .. so you need time. That's not bad, that's only a different concept. It's easier. A good photographer will be able to do near the same pictures (beside the 16 MP instead of the 20 MP but that's only a small difference that most of us need only for pixel-peeping

For sure you can drive with a VW Polo from A to B but with a VW Passat you will be able to do it much more comfortable, safer, maybe faster .......

I think you are mis-informed about the E-P5. Dual control dials. 1/8000 max shutter speed. 9 FPS/5 FPS . Nearly identical specs to the Pen F.

The Pen F adds an EVF. Improved IBIS. 1/16000 electronic shutter. Articulating screen. B&W modes. One extra button.

Thomas Traub wrote:

rsmithgi wrote:

Thomas Traub wrote:

E-Px or E-PLx and Pen-F are two completely different categories. The first one are better compact-cameras (o.k., advanced compact cameras with changeable lenses), the pen-F can compete with 3.000€-Nikons or Canons and are an alternative to FF DSLRs.

Can you elaborate on why you feel the Pen F is in a different league?

Because the Pen-F can do everything (!) that a DSLR (for about 4.000€) can do, only in a smaller body. You have near everything in direct access, fast (only the ME-1 II is faster) .... I can work in the same (or a very very simmilar) way as i worked with my FF DSLR.

I don't know which 4000E DSLR you refer to, but the Pen-F cannot do everything (!!!!) that a DSLR can do.

For starter - it can't reasonably track moving subjects in AF even if its life depended on it. While I do understand the limitations of contrast based AF, I think Olympus needs to make a call. Either figure out how to do reasonable CAF with Contrast based AF, OR, add Phase detect sensors to its 1000+ cameras. Selling a camera for 1200$ that cannot do reasonable CAF in today's world is unacceptable in my eyes. Everybody else (Fuji, Sony, Panasonic) figured out better CAF.

Is that a reason not to buy the Pen-F? not nescessarily. Maybe this feature is not important to you - but saying it does "everything (!!!!!)" is ridiculous. It also doesn't do the same quality of images at ISO3200 and higher, by a considerable margin. It also has a small EVF, with annoying blackouts when shooting in fast speed shooting.

So - after relaxing the superlatives.... The Pen-F is a *very* capable camera, offering great capabilities and performance in a compact body, and has great features as long as you don't plan to shoot anything that is moving. It is priced at 1200$, which may be cheap compared to a FF camera but that's not an interesting comparison at all. It is DOUBLE the price of the Panasonic GX85, which is a similarly sized and specced camera. It loses some capabilities over the Pen-F (for instance high res, and not as good IBIS) but wins on others (improved video, 4K photo, etc.). Is it worth double than the GX85? In my eyes - from a pure capabilities point of view - no. If you factor in design - that's your call at this point.

More importantly, it costs roughly in the same ballpark as the Panasonic G85. The Panasonic G85 is superior to the Pen-F in most functionality and ergonomics aspects. Of course - if you want smaller, the Pen-F wins, but in any other comparison, the G85 offers much more of a "camera".

The E-P/L-concept is an "advanced-compact-camera-concept". Don't misunderstand me. These are great cameras but the approach is from a complete other side. You can do very much, but only when you jump down in the menues .. so you need time. That's not bad, that's only a different concept. It's easier. A good photographer will be able to do near the same pictures (beside the 16 MP instead of the 20 MP but that's only a small difference that most of us need only for pixel-peeping

You are mixing the EPL and EP. What you say about the EPL is true. But the EP is the same "line" as the Pen-F - only without the EVF.

For sure you can drive with a VW Polo from A to B but with a VW Passat you will be able to do it much more comfortable, safer, maybe faster .......

Yes, you are true. But unfortunately I would hardly classify the Pen-F as a VW Passat. the Pen-F is more of a VW Golf Cabriolet. It doesn't have the comfort, size or capabilities of the Passat. It is more like a Golf, but it has style

slartz wrote:

Thomas Traub wrote:

rsmithgi wrote:

Thomas Traub wrote:

E-Px or E-PLx and Pen-F are two completely different categories. The first one are better compact-cameras (o.k., advanced compact cameras with changeable lenses), the pen-F can compete with 3.000€-Nikons or Canons and are an alternative to FF DSLRs.

Can you elaborate on why you feel the Pen F is in a different league?

Because the Pen-F can do everything (!) that a DSLR (for about 4.000€) can do, only in a smaller body. You have near everything in direct access, fast (only the ME-1 II is faster) .... I can work in the same (or a very very simmilar) way as i worked with my FF DSLR.

I don't know which 4000E DSLR you refer to, but the Pen-F cannot do everything (!!!!) that a DSLR can do.

For starter - it can't reasonably track moving subjects in AF even if its life depended on it. While I do understand the limitations of contrast based AF, I think Olympus needs to make a call. Either figure out how to do reasonable CAF with Contrast based AF, OR, add Phase detect sensors to its 1000+ cameras. Selling a camera for 1200$ that cannot do reasonable CAF in today's world is unacceptable in my eyes. Everybody else (Fuji, Sony, Panasonic) figured out better CAF.

Is that a reason not to buy the Pen-F? not nescessarily. Maybe this feature is not important to you - but saying it does "everything (!!!!!)" is ridiculous. It also doesn't do the same quality of images at ISO3200 and higher, by a considerable margin. It also has a small EVF, with annoying blackouts when shooting in fast speed shooting.

So - after relaxing the superlatives.... The Pen-F is a *very* capable camera, offering great capabilities and performance in a compact body, and has great features as long as you don't plan to shoot anything that is moving. It is priced at 1200$, which may be cheap compared to a FF camera but that's not an interesting comparison at all. It is DOUBLE the price of the Panasonic GX85, which is a similarly sized and specced camera. It loses some capabilities over the Pen-F (for instance high res, and not as good IBIS) but wins on others (improved video, 4K photo, etc.). Is it worth double than the GX85? In my eyes - from a pure capabilities point of view - no. If you factor in design - that's your call at this point.

More importantly, it costs roughly in the same ballpark as the Panasonic G85. The Panasonic G85 is superior to the Pen-F in most functionality and ergonomics aspects. Of course - if you want smaller, the Pen-F wins, but in any other comparison, the G85 offers much more of a "camera".

The E-P/L-concept is an "advanced-compact-camera-concept". Don't misunderstand me. These are great cameras but the approach is from a complete other side. You can do very much, but only when you jump down in the menues .. so you need time. That's not bad, that's only a different concept. It's easier. A good photographer will be able to do near the same pictures (beside the 16 MP instead of the 20 MP but that's only a small difference that most of us need only for pixel-peeping

You are mixing the EPL and EP. What you say about the EPL is true. But the EP is the same "line" as the Pen-F - only without the EVF.

For sure you can drive with a VW Polo from A to B but with a VW Passat you will be able to do it much more comfortable, safer, maybe faster .......

Yes, you are true. But unfortunately I would hardly classify the Pen-F as a VW Passat. the Pen-F is more of a VW Golf Cabriolet. It doesn't have the comfort, size or capabilities of the Passat. It is more like a Golf, but it has style

Good post.

Ben Herrmann wrote:

...and whatever camera you buy will be based on a number of factors such as how the camera looks and feels, your preferred camera body style, IQ, and many other factors. What's a good camera for one person, may not be so for the next.

As an aside, I don't know why you don't like the GX1. Hell, I still maintain in pristine condition, both the GF1 and the GX1 and the IQ I'm netting from these ole' girls is nothing to laugh about - they are that good.

I don't have the Pen F - wish I did. I do have the E-P5 and what a wonderful camera that turned out to be, with a better high ISO capability than "some" of my other brand APS-C sensored cameras - now go figure. The camera is very good and thus some of the higher prices out there, although I must say, that you can do better than $800. Here are some on eBay (both new and used). Even new ones are going for less than $500 - and at those prices, yes, I'd highly recommend getting one. You'll definitely be happy that you did.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2060353.m570.l1313.TR12.TRC2.A0.H0.XOlympus+E-P5.TRS0&_nkw=Olympus+E-P5&_sacat=0

Once the Pen-F comes down, I'll focus on getting one of those also, but right now, it's unfortunately too high a price. Olympus keeps their camera prices high, even when competitors release models that are as good or better than what Oly produced. But as you can see, it's good to finally see the E-P5 price coming down.

So, I'd enthusiastically suggest looking at the E-P5 and then get some good glass. I currently am using the inexpensive, yet excellent prime - the Sigma 19 MM on mine and the results are stellar.

Good luck...

+1 on the E-P5. It is a shame they haven't been available reconditioned for so long. The last price was $240. I got one during a 20% off sale. Final price was $192. I added a 2 year warranty for $60.

gary0319 wrote:

RSSrsvp wrote:

gary0319 wrote:

OpticsEngineer wrote:

I agree $1000 is just too much. So get one that's been reconditioned. I just did. $750.

http://www.getolympus.com/us/en/outlet/reconditioned-cameras.html

It is a step up from my EPL7... more than I expected it to be. Larger than I expected, but I am enjoying shooting it so much I don't mind at all.

That's a really good price on a Pen F.

I bought my reconditioned Pen F last year on a sale last year and the 20% off price was about the same as the current price. I've never regretted the purchase and my PL7 gets little use since the Pen F entered my life.

Based on the current $749 price in the Outlet Store and if one is willing to take a chance and wait for the next 20% Flash Sale the Pen-F could be as low as $599.

You are right, but one had better be quick to purchase, as at that price the limited stock of refurbished Pen F's would be gone in a "flash".....one would be in my hands, for sure,

I agree that you need to act fast when they announce the flash sales. Therefore the text message alert may be the best approach.