"OK" but much cheaper camera body and invest in a good lens or good body with kit?

tt321 wrote:

Mike Loanzon wrote:

Thanks for this! My apologies, i forgot to mention that the Pen-EP5 being sold at $300+ comes with a viewfinder, making it a very compelling argument/consideration.

Does it have a warranty similar to the others? Load it with the latest FW and it will actually be better than the E-M10 in most aspects.

still my hesitation investing that much knowing there isn't much support here, as well as some reports of "ok but not very sturdy" camera parts? like the viewfinder foam falls off or the buttons are not exactly the best. worried small things like that (although easily remedied in repair shops) might be problematic here.

Small things like that happen to every possible camera model, unfortunately. Support from different brands is completely location-dependent so you may need to investigate locally.

Yes, unfortunately Olympus does not have local support here in the philippines although there are some pretty active members in "mirrorless camera market philippines" group on facebook advocating that they can (and have been) getting people's olympus gear fixed through their international (and licensed) contacts. They basically ship it out to singapore I think or asian areas nearby with oly support.

Mike Loanzon wrote:

Thanks for this! My apologies, i forgot to mention that the Pen-EP5 being sold at $300+ comes with a viewfinder, making it a very compelling argument/consideration.

If it is a VF-4, then go for it! It is a very good viewfinder, and the E-P5 is an excellent camera (and good looking, too).

With the money you save by buying used, get a nice fast prime. However, do not get the 20, because it will cause banding on the E-P5.

Mike Loanzon wrote:

inlawbiker wrote:

Mike Loanzon wrote:

-Then I considered the OMD-EM10 (being sold for roughly $500 just the body and around $600 for the kit). Second hand can drop up to around $400 with 65-100$ for a kit lens. Leaving me with 60 to maybe $100 which I can invest in a 20 or 25mm for when things go on sale in the states.

I would just do this, if you mean the original E-M10 (Mark I), or even the E-M5 (Mark 1). Both are a big upgrade over the little GF-2. It seems like maybe prices are a bit higher where you live, but typically these are under $300 around here used. You get a viewfinder, flip-screen, 16mp and image stabilization with either, how can you beat that?

Greg

A brand new omd-em10 MKII is around 500$. most of the ones below that, (much older or used ) I tend to doubt or avoid mainly because of the fear that it could break down without any solution. I do love it though. Next to the GX85 it's the best selling/most loved M43 in all of the groups i'm in. my only hesitation with investing that much more money in the system is that I'm worried I can't have it repaired if I end up with some issues along the way (Especially early along the way. Olympus does not have any authorized repair centers in the philippines, sadly. which led me to hope for the gx85 since panasonic has presence... but it's much more expensive).

Will see if my budget allows it in a few months but definitely considering it.

Mike,

If you haven't already take the time to read the DPR review on the E-M10 Mark ll. In my opinion unless you have a need for a Panasonic body because it has 4k video the Oly is the way to go.

https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/bang-for-the-buck-olympus-om-d-e-m10-ii-review

Also if you aren't in a rush the E-M10 Mark lll is supposed to be released this year and that will help to drive down prices on the Mark ll.

Mike,

If you haven't already take the time to read the DPR review on the E-M10 Mark ll. In my opinion unless you have a need for a Panasonic body because it has 4k video the Oly is the way to go.

https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/bang-for-the-buck-olympus-om-d-e-m10-ii-review

Also if you aren't in a rush the E-M10 Mark lll is supposed to be released this year and that will help to drive down prices on the Mark ll.

wow that's great news! I have been reading all or most available reviews on the OMDs including youtube videos and samples. I was going to relay the same concern with the OMD; my hesitation being it's a pretty big (er) investment for a system that has no direct repair where I live. I figure at least if I spend for something a little less, It won't hurt as much (to have repaired)

but huh. interesting. Any news on when the release will be? thanks for the heads up!

Buy the most advanced body you can afford; you can always "grow" into the camera's capabilities. You can always add appropriate lenses as the need arises.

For example, I often use the pro-body Olympus with the $49 "body cap lens". Some people use the older, used, film-camera lenses with an adapter. "Sharpness" and counting "lines per millimeter" is not always the primary factor in choosing a lens.

Mike Loanzon wrote:

Mike,

If you haven't already take the time to read the DPR review on the E-M10 Mark ll. In my opinion unless you have a need for a Panasonic body because it has 4k video the Oly is the way to go.

https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/bang-for-the-buck-olympus-om-d-e-m10-ii-review

Also if you aren't in a rush the E-M10 Mark lll is supposed to be released this year and that will help to drive down prices on the Mark ll.

wow that's great news! I have been reading all or most available reviews on the OMDs including youtube videos and samples. I was going to relay the same concern with the OMD; my hesitation being it's a pretty big (er) investment for a system that has no direct repair where I live. I figure at least if I spend for something a little less, It won't hurt as much (to have repaired)

but huh. interesting. Any news on when the release will be? thanks for the heads up!

Read this article, sometime this year.

http://www.43rumors.com/ft5-this-year-we-will-get-a-new-olympus-e-m10iii/

Also if you have any friends of family that live in the US you could consider having them buy the E-M10 Mark ll here, register the camera with Olympus USA and ship it to you.

As a general rule, lenses will outlast your bodies, so it is better to buy the best lenses you can afford.  That said, there are also some hidden gems in kit lenses.  The Panasonic 12-32mm is a good example.

I think it is also worth taking into consideration the native mount lenses available for any brand you consider.  MFT has the largest selection of native mount lenses in mirrorless, many of which are stellar performers.

You stated that you shoot RAW but are unhappy with the colors you are getting.  May I suggest that you give Capture One Pro a look.  It is, in my opinion,, the best raw converter out there, and it certainly gives some of the best colors I have seen.  They support a huge number of cameras, including Nikon, Canon, Olympus, Panasonic and Sony.

larsbc wrote:

I've got a few low-ish light samples from my GX7 in my gallery:

If you look at them at 100% size, they'll look terrible.

They don't look terrible to me.

Thanks for your reply. Investing in lenses over camera bodies seems to be the consensus. I feel I am thoroughly convinced now. (But in need of some M43 body suggestions atm, since someone beat me to the Pen-EP5 deal. i may just wait for the OMD price to drop.)

You stated that you shoot RAW but are unhappy with the colors you are getting. May I suggest that you give Capture One Pro a look. It is, in my opinion,, the best raw converter out there, and it certainly gives some of the best colors I have seen. They support a huge number of cameras, including Nikon, Canon, Olympus, Panasonic and Sony.

I'll look into this, thanks!

Mike Loanzon wrote:

Thanks for your reply. Investing in lenses over camera bodies seems to be the consensus. I feel I am thoroughly convinced now. (But in need of some M43 body suggestions atm, since someone beat me to the Pen-EP5 deal. i may just wait for the OMD price to drop.)

You stated that you shoot RAW but are unhappy with the colors you are getting. May I suggest that you give Capture One Pro a look. It is, in my opinion,, the best raw converter out there, and it certainly gives some of the best colors I have seen. They support a huge number of cameras, including Nikon, Canon, Olympus, Panasonic and Sony.

I'll look into this, thanks!

Too bad. An E-P5 with any VF for $300 is a great deal.

What you didn't like about the GF-2 images will be improved on newer cameras but at hazard of starting an endless argument, they won't be miles different.

I would say in general, look to 16MP (or 20 if the prices don't scare you) cameras over 12. In indoor situations they will perform better. For social P or A mode shooting, any of the 16MP cameras with a popup flash will be a good start. Any of the f1.7-2.0 primes from 12 to 45 mm will help for social shooting. I find the zooms, even the expensive f2.8 ones, dark for social shooting in color. But most any of the zooms even at ISO 6400 create great pics in black and white if you know how to push up the contrast.

For social shooting you don't really need a VF.  But consider dials have a BIG effect on usability.  If you want to be a manual control photographer look for a camera with front and rear dials like the E-P5. If you like to use automatic modes then an E-PL5 is fine and pretty inexpensive these days but it will be limiting if you decide later to be a manual shooter.  The E-PL5 and 6 (and many of the Panny GF's) have an awkward dial on the back but the E-PL7 and 8 have a nicer thumb dial on top.  Some of the Panny's combine a rear single dial that you push/click to toggle from aperture to shutter, which is nicer than a single dial but not as nice as 2 dials.

And there's a large range of sizes that I don't know how to comment on but I'm pretty sure if you took a poll on how many M4/3 users have 2 or more bodies, there will be quite a few of us.  So don't be afraid to start too simple or too complex, it's an easy problem to fix; especially in the used market.

As far as picking Panny or Oly, they render colors quite differently.  I'd spend some time on Flickr, look up M4/3 groups and study Oly images vs Panny and see what you prefer; opinions of others are often unhelpful.  Again, take a poll to see how many own both

Mixing mfg's lenses and bodies generally work fine but affect colors, autofocus and purple edges too.  So researching your lens and body combo's helps prevent surprises.

calgarykev wrote:

Mike Loanzon wrote:

Thanks for your reply. Investing in lenses over camera bodies seems to be the consensus. I feel I am thoroughly convinced now. (But in need of some M43 body suggestions atm, since someone beat me to the Pen-EP5 deal. i may just wait for the OMD price to drop.)

You stated that you shoot RAW but are unhappy with the colors you are getting. May I suggest that you give Capture One Pro a look. It is, in my opinion,, the best raw converter out there, and it certainly gives some of the best colors I have seen. They support a huge number of cameras, including Nikon, Canon, Olympus, Panasonic and Sony.

I'll look into this, thanks!

Too bad. An E-P5 with any VF for $300 is a great deal.

What you didn't like about the GF-2 images will be improved on newer cameras but at hazard of starting an endless argument, they won't be miles different.

I would say in general, look to 16MP (or 20 if the prices don't scare you) cameras over 12. In indoor situations they will perform better. For social P or A mode shooting, any of the 16MP cameras with a popup flash will be a good start. Any of the f1.7-2.0 primes from 12 to 45 mm will help for social shooting. I find the zooms, even the expensive f2.8 ones, dark for social shooting in color. But most any of the zooms even at ISO 6400 create great pics in black and white if you know how to push up the contrast.

For social shooting you don't really need a VF. But consider dials have a BIG effect on usability. If you want to be a manual control photographer look for a camera with front and rear dials like the E-P5. If you like to use automatic modes then an E-PL5 is fine and pretty inexpensive these days but it will be limiting if you decide later to be a manual shooter. The E-PL5 and 6 (and many of the Panny GF's) have an awkward dial on the back but the E-PL7 and 8 have a nicer thumb dial on top. Some of the Panny's combine a rear single dial that you push/click to toggle from aperture to shutter, which is nicer than a single dial but not as nice as 2 dials.

And there's a large range of sizes that I don't know how to comment on but I'm pretty sure if you took a poll on how many M4/3 users have 2 or more bodies, there will be quite a few of us. So don't be afraid to start too simple or too complex, it's an easy problem to fix; especially in the used market.

As far as picking Panny or Oly, they render colors quite differently. I'd spend some time on Flickr, look up M4/3 groups and study Oly images vs Panny and see what you prefer; opinions of others are often unhelpful. Again, take a poll to see how many own both

Mixing mfg's lenses and bodies generally work fine but affect colors, autofocus and purple edges too. So researching your lens and body combo's helps prevent surprises.

Thanks for this! Yes i've been on flickr constantly haha. Sine I only started getting into photography (well. applied photogrpahy. I always wanted to but couldn't afford a camera) I've been on flickr practicing. During days i can't go out and shoot, I'd look at photos and filter content based on the camera i want or have at the time and guess the settings then test it when i have the time (day job.  Commute here in the philippines takes out hours of your workday, not to mention expelled energy from the discomfort). I've quite enjoyed the simplicity of the gf-2 though. The click dial is convenient, especially for manual shooting (I've been using an adapted Pentax 50mm F2 lens from my brother's old film camera). I guess on top of this, I've to learn more about post processing so I can gauge what colors I need prior to processing as well.

It turns out the Oly collector is going to sell his other EP5 (without the VF though. Which I think is fine, I'm beginning to feel like- as of now at least, I don't think I'll be using it often anyway.) I've gone through a lot of the hands on reviews to see functions, i'll be giong through the manual when I have time too. So far i'm excited because the buttons of the Ep5 seem very convenient- the build quality seems great as well.

I'm set to meet him this weekend. hopefully all goes well.

A good functioning is a killer camera. I used one for 4 years and only sold it to get a Gx85 because of the video. I've sold stock with the images and never had a problem. The EP5 with view finder for $300 is a good deal. I probably have 15 to 20K clicks on mine when I sold it and every things was still function - in great condition I'd say.

If it had been my only camera, I would have been happy - in fact I used it a lot more than the DX Nikons I had at the time. I now have two Gx8 and a Gx85, but still love the EP5 for a still camera. Video tip - don't use auto focus and shoot on a tripod with no IBIS to get the best video from an EP5.

old models have old sensors which are lousy in a high iso setting.

panasonic has fixed this with newer models,

since you got an olympus good luck with that mode.