ZEISS Batis 2.8/135 APO [ $1,999.00 ] is officially announced...

Started Apr 5, 2017 | Discussions
woodyggg Contributing Member • Posts: 884
Re: Zeiss violate me with their expensive lenses ...

nandbytes wrote:

Magnar W wrote:

baltimorecaesar wrote:

mg_k wrote:

Retarded price.

I couldn't agree more. This really has me scratching my head and has taken all the wind out of my sails. I own Minolta's MD and Canon's FDn 135mm f/2.8, that I have used over the last 5 years on my NEX-7 and A7RII, and I love them both. I have been banging the native (AF) 135mm drum for the last 2-3 years, and they finally answered with this ridiculous price point. I would have expected this price for a f/2.0 or f/1.8 GM lens, NOT a f/2.8 Batis.

Why not just buy another lens if this weather-sealed apo-tele is too expensive for you? Or too slow at f:2.8?

I am surprised by people who expect Zeiss lenses to be cheap!

there is a difference in between being expensive and overpriced. This is the latter.

I used to believe that, but saw a great post - given the context, I no longer do.

 woodyggg's gear list:woodyggg's gear list
Sony a7R III Zeiss Loxia 21mm F2.8 Zeiss Batis 85mm F1.8 Sony 50mm F2.8 Macro Sony FE 55mm F1.8 +5 more
mg_k Veteran Member • Posts: 3,204
Re: ZEISS Batis 2.8/135 APO [ $1,999.00 ] is officially announced...

sjazz wrote:

Dan_168 wrote:

I have a few Batis, but never really like its look, also, I do a lot of manual focus, the "feel" is among the worst compare to all traditional Zeiss ZM/ZF I have. just personal preference thing.

I agree, the Batis is not as easy to manual focus as other Zeiss lenses. I would prefer a more texturised rubber on the focus ring.

Agree as well.

That slippery non texturised dust-magnet focus ring is one of the worst.  And that failure prone LED screen is nothing but gimmicks.

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joger
joger Veteran Member • Posts: 5,240
Re: ZEISS Batis 2.8/135 APO [ $1,999.00 ] is officially announced...

Trollmannx wrote:

joger wrote:

Both compared lenses are one stop faster tested.

If you'd stop them down they are sharper - especially towards the corners.

Sharpness is IMHO not the most important meassure of a lens.

Fully agree - but do not deny that having a sharp lens is a bad thing.

For years I've been touting that sharpness is the most important thing when it comes to the technical part of photography

Since I've got my A7RM2 things have changed - all my lenses are sharp enough - the things that set them apart are either aperture and/or size and weight and bokeh and user interface - in other words an aperture ring on the lens plus a good manual focus has more value to me than the last 5 % of sharpness - equally to my sports car I could not care less for a few HP more - I struggle to use the power of my car already

Bokeh, size, weight and build quality are at least as impotrant for me.

Fully agree - and in my case bulk is appaling.

have fun with it! I prefer for the travel bag small and tiny lenses - I love my Voigtlaender 15 mm lens. Small is beautiful

The Canon 135 f/2.0 is an amazing Lens for half the price!!!

But then price is not always an issue - there are lots of deep pockets out there.

and long hands hopefully - my pockets for my interests are extremely deep over time but I hate to spend my hard earned money on rubbish things.

Make a modern version of the Leica 135 Apo Tele M with full EXIF and I'd be willing to spend a fortune!

If going cheap matter there is a flood of older 135 mm lenses out there ready to be adopted and adapted.

With no EXIF - btw - my Leica costed me much less than the new Batis and it is optically a masterpiece - unfortunately without EXIF - as said many time - it's my only adapted lens so I can live with this fact

Look, feel and want:

The Batis lenses look like (police warning: this is a subjective statement) goddesses among lenses - makes the other lenses simply look ramshackeled...

aha

The Batis 2.8/135 mm lens is not cheap but I fully understand why some will get this lens over any other other 135 mm lens out there. The want it factor is sky high...

make a GM 135 f/1.8 for 3 k USD and I buy it in a heartbeat. Make additionally a Sony version of the Leica 135 f/3.4 APO Tele M with full EXIF for 3.5 k USD and buy this additionally the next heartbeat

For me this looks like Zeiss on steroids. They obviously hired some new marketing guys and they sit together thinking what to bring to the market that is so different that it is easily recognizable and - well - different.

No aperture ring - no AF/MF switch on the lens and a fancy OLED display for the "I want it cool fraction" - but what bothers me most is the sheer size of the Batis lenses - tested the 18 / 25 and 85 and disliked them a lot in handling and feel. Image quality is good but as stated above the sharpness is good enough on all my small lenses

At the end of the day it all comes down to craftsmanship. The last 5 % in sharpness are less perceivable than many think - me including - I love sharp lenses but e.g. my Samyang 135 gets no usage in my Photo bag even though it is optically outstanding - it is just bad in handling - at least my copy focusses like an old rusty water pipe nozzle. Sharpness is not the thing to worry about with good MF primes on an A7RM2 and probably nothing to worry on an A7RM3 too with 50-80 MPixel and lots of headroom to crop!

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joger
joger Veteran Member • Posts: 5,240
Re: ZEISS Batis 2.8/135 APO [ $1,999.00 ] is officially announced...

landshark wrote:

I am looking forward to this lens arriving, from all accounts so far it is optically stunning, the size is reasonable, the aperture is fine for my use, I do want a well made lens that has autofocus, I have zero desire to use adapters(own one for nikon lenses), zero desire to only manual focus( did that for more years than I care to remember and still own a number of manual focus film cameras), not thrilled but have gotten use to no aperture ring, do not want to carry the 80-200 around, would I like it to be cheaper sure, but it is an APO. This should be the last lens for my Sony's unless they bring out a 300 or 400. Do I miss the fact that it is not an F2 or faster, not really, I would not want it to be that much heavier or larger.

Mine is on order, hopefully here next month, will let all know how it shoots.

I have zero desire for another bulky and slow lens and I have zero desire to use any kind of zoom on my A7RM2.

I am sure the image quality will be great - but so is my Samyang 135 f/2.0 and yet I never use it because it is horrible in handling - tested all existing Batis lenses and disliked the rubber and feel of the lenses.

AF on fast primes is extremely welcome and MF on slower and smaller primes is very acceptable for me - I have two lens lines - one for situations where AF is desperately needed and one of situations where MF makes utterly sense.

I have also two cars - one for traveling and one for fun - the Batis lenses seem to be the family van that is supposed to be spacey but neither very fast nor very agile in handling - I guess this describes it best.

Of course I am happy for everybody that desires a family van - not my cup of tea though

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__________________________________
A7R II - one camera to rule them all
ISO 9000 definition of quality: 'Degree to which a set of inherent characteristic fulfills requirements'
I am the classic “Windows by Day, Mac by Night user'
“The horizon of many people is a circle with zero radius which they call their point of view.” Albert Einstein
"In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." Douglas Adams

 joger's gear list:joger's gear list
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RubberDials Senior Member • Posts: 1,234
Sigma future

netscorer2 wrote:

kelly15 wrote:

netscorer2 wrote:

kelly15 wrote:

netscorer2 wrote:

Sony E mount system desperately needs Sigma and Tamron native lenses. Zeiss can only charge these prices in current vacuum.

In your opinion, which will be the added value to have native Sigma FE lenses compared to the current coupled with the MC-11 adapter?

I see two issues with the current adapted Sigma lenses - they are bigger and heavier then they could be since they are designed for DSLRs and the AF would never be as reliable with adapter as native. For Sigma 135 F1.8 Art, for example, this may turn off most of the pro photographers who actually buy this focal prime as they would never trade 1 extra stop for the AF they can not trust.

Do you mean that Sigma should completely re-design all ART lenses to fit Sony FE bodies?

If so, I think it will never happens. Too expensive and, mainly, not sure to achieve the current excellent performances of ART series with adapter.

About AF in some way I may agree with you as I lost very few shots due to not correct AF but nevertheless they are too many.

I'm confident Sigma can totally or partially solve this concern via firmware, lenses and/or adapter.

Sigma is already working on native FE lenses. They said as much in recent interview. And yes, this will be a completely new optical design, taking advantage of short distance to sensor. I would not expect them to simply replicate current Art series, but look intelligently where they can contribute and where they can compete with existing FE lineup.

I hate to disappoint you but I am confident that Sigma will spam FE users from here to eternity and produce a lens for every focal length imaginable.

50% of threads on this forum over the next five years will consist of Sigma users declaring anybody who has bought an FE lens not made by Sigma to be 'insane' or a 'Zeiss/GM fanboi'.

I'm dreading it already.

RubberDials Senior Member • Posts: 1,234
Re: Zeiss violate me with their expensive lenses ...

mg_k wrote:

terryreid wrote:

I believe my 100STF will be a much better portrait lens or my 85GM I like to use me 50 1.4 ZA also with a little more DOF.

Sadly I have to agree.

If this Batis is a f1.8 or f2.0 I'd argue with you, but at f2.8 you are absolutely right that it offers nothing over the GM85 @ f1.4.

You're right, apart from more reach, OSS, focussing distance information and apochromatic correction the 200 offers nothing over the 85GM. 

RubberDials Senior Member • Posts: 1,234
Get used to it, this is what FE teles will cost

mg_k wrote:

Magnar W wrote:

baltimorecaesar wrote:

mg_k wrote:

Retarded price.

I couldn't agree more. This really has me scratching my head and has taken all the wind out of my sails. I own Minolta's MD and Canon's FDn 135mm f/2.8, that I have used over the last 5 years on my NEX-7 and A7RII, and I love them both. I have been banging the native (AF) 135mm drum for the last 2-3 years, and they finally answered with this ridiculous price point. I would have expected this price for a f/2.0 or f/1.8 GM lens, NOT a f/2.8 Batis.

Why not just buy another lens if this weather-sealed apo-tele is too expensive for you? Or too slow at f:2.8?

I am surprised by people who expect Zeiss lenses to be cheap!

I never expect it to be cheap, but just not outrageously overpriced especially it's only a f2.8.

It's impossible to say the lens is overpriced because there is nothing to judge the price by. There aren't any other AF 135 lenses in E-mount, whether apochromatic or with OSS or not. There aren't even any FE tele primes - not proper teles - this is the first one. Believe me, when they come, fast or slow, they are all going to cost at least this much.

It's also interesting that you seem to think the only thing that can affect the price of a lens is it's speed. A bit like assuming that vintage wine should only cost more than wine from a petrol station if it comes in a larger capacity bottle.

Zeiss lenses use better quality glass and materials than Sigma lenses and are made to higher standards. The question is not whether that is the case - it is undoubtedly the case - the question is whether that makes them better lenses for general photography, which does not require the highest standards of optical polishing and purity of glass anyway.

Another thing to consider is the actual T-stop of the lens. The Sigma 135/1.8 is very unlikely to have a T-stop of f1.8 - the Canon 135/2L is f2.3 for example. The Batis lenses have T-stops that match their maximum aperture according to DXOmark.

vett93
vett93 Senior Member • Posts: 4,537
vett93 = 1993 Corvette

I am a muscle/pony car fan. I had a 1993 Corvette back in the days, after a Mustang and a Firebird Trans Am. After these 3 cars, I made a big mistake of buying a German car, a BMW 7-series with factory lowered M-Sport suspension. It drove like a dream when it was not in the shop. It was the single POS car I have ever owned and I was stranded 7 times in the 8 years of ownership. No more German car for me after that. I was on a BMW 7-series forum back then. Everyone's BMW 7-series had tons of problems.

I am now back to American muscle car with a 392 cubic inch engine and 485 HP! When I was shopping for this car, my wife told me that I should get the 707HP version. Wish I had listened to her. Vroommmm....

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Photography enthusiast, from 12mm to 500mm

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kelly15 Contributing Member • Posts: 692
Re: Get used to it, this is what FE teles will cost

RubberDials wrote:

mg_k wrote:

Magnar W wrote:

baltimorecaesar wrote:

mg_k wrote:

Retarded price.

I couldn't agree more. This really has me scratching my head and has taken all the wind out of my sails. I own Minolta's MD and Canon's FDn 135mm f/2.8, that I have used over the last 5 years on my NEX-7 and A7RII, and I love them both. I have been banging the native (AF) 135mm drum for the last 2-3 years, and they finally answered with this ridiculous price point. I would have expected this price for a f/2.0 or f/1.8 GM lens, NOT a f/2.8 Batis.

Why not just buy another lens if this weather-sealed apo-tele is too expensive for you? Or too slow at f:2.8?

I am surprised by people who expect Zeiss lenses to be cheap!

I never expect it to be cheap, but just not outrageously overpriced especially it's only a f2.8.

It's impossible to say the lens is overpriced because there is nothing to judge the price by. There aren't any other AF 135 lenses in E-mount, whether apochromatic or with OSS or not. There aren't even any FE tele primes - not proper teles - this is the first one. Believe me, when they come, fast or slow, they are all going to cost at least this much.

It's also interesting that you seem to think the only thing that can affect the price of a lens is it's speed. A bit like assuming that vintage wine should only cost more than wine from a petrol station if it comes in a larger capacity bottle.

Zeiss lenses use better quality glass and materials than Sigma lenses and are made to higher standards. The question is not whether that is the case - it is undoubtedly the case - the question is whether that makes them better lenses for general photography, which does not require the highest standards of optical polishing and purity of glass anyway.

Another thing to consider is the actual T-stop of the lens. The Sigma 135/1.8 is very unlikely to have a T-stop of f1.8 - the Canon 135/2L is f2.3 for example. The Batis lenses have T-stops that match their maximum aperture according to DXOmark.

Do you own a crystal ball?

 kelly15's gear list:kelly15's gear list
Sony a7R III Sigma 135mm F1.8 Art Sony FE 85mm F1.8 Sony FE 35mm F2.8 Sony FE 24-105mm F4 +4 more
vett93
vett93 Senior Member • Posts: 4,537
Re: Sigma future

RubberDials wrote:

netscorer2 wrote:

kelly15 wrote:

netscorer2 wrote:

kelly15 wrote:

netscorer2 wrote:

Sony E mount system desperately needs Sigma and Tamron native lenses. Zeiss can only charge these prices in current vacuum.

In your opinion, which will be the added value to have native Sigma FE lenses compared to the current coupled with the MC-11 adapter?

I see two issues with the current adapted Sigma lenses - they are bigger and heavier then they could be since they are designed for DSLRs and the AF would never be as reliable with adapter as native. For Sigma 135 F1.8 Art, for example, this may turn off most of the pro photographers who actually buy this focal prime as they would never trade 1 extra stop for the AF they can not trust.

Do you mean that Sigma should completely re-design all ART lenses to fit Sony FE bodies?

If so, I think it will never happens. Too expensive and, mainly, not sure to achieve the current excellent performances of ART series with adapter.

About AF in some way I may agree with you as I lost very few shots due to not correct AF but nevertheless they are too many.

I'm confident Sigma can totally or partially solve this concern via firmware, lenses and/or adapter.

Sigma is already working on native FE lenses. They said as much in recent interview. And yes, this will be a completely new optical design, taking advantage of short distance to sensor. I would not expect them to simply replicate current Art series, but look intelligently where they can contribute and where they can compete with existing FE lineup.

I hate to disappoint you but I am confident that Sigma will spam FE users from here to eternity and produce a lens for every focal length imaginable.

50% of threads on this forum over the next five years will consist of Sigma users declaring anybody who has bought an FE lens not made by Sigma to be 'insane' or a 'Zeiss/GM fanboi'.

I'm dreading it already.

Sorry to disappoint. I have not found a single Sigma lens, in FE or EF mount, worth buying.

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Photography enthusiast, from 12mm to 500mm

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RubberDials Senior Member • Posts: 1,234
Re: Sigma future

vett93 wrote:

RubberDials wrote:

netscorer2 wrote:

kelly15 wrote:

netscorer2 wrote:

kelly15 wrote:

netscorer2 wrote:

Sony E mount system desperately needs Sigma and Tamron native lenses. Zeiss can only charge these prices in current vacuum.

In your opinion, which will be the added value to have native Sigma FE lenses compared to the current coupled with the MC-11 adapter?

I see two issues with the current adapted Sigma lenses - they are bigger and heavier then they could be since they are designed for DSLRs and the AF would never be as reliable with adapter as native. For Sigma 135 F1.8 Art, for example, this may turn off most of the pro photographers who actually buy this focal prime as they would never trade 1 extra stop for the AF they can not trust.

Do you mean that Sigma should completely re-design all ART lenses to fit Sony FE bodies?

If so, I think it will never happens. Too expensive and, mainly, not sure to achieve the current excellent performances of ART series with adapter.

About AF in some way I may agree with you as I lost very few shots due to not correct AF but nevertheless they are too many.

I'm confident Sigma can totally or partially solve this concern via firmware, lenses and/or adapter.

Sigma is already working on native FE lenses. They said as much in recent interview. And yes, this will be a completely new optical design, taking advantage of short distance to sensor. I would not expect them to simply replicate current Art series, but look intelligently where they can contribute and where they can compete with existing FE lineup.

I hate to disappoint you but I am confident that Sigma will spam FE users from here to eternity and produce a lens for every focal length imaginable.

50% of threads on this forum over the next five years will consist of Sigma users declaring anybody who has bought an FE lens not made by Sigma to be 'insane' or a 'Zeiss/GM fanboi'.

I'm dreading it already.

Sorry to disappoint. I have not found a single Sigma lens, in FE or EF mount, worth buying.

You need to actually read my post and then amend yours or delete it.

RubberDials Senior Member • Posts: 1,234
Re: Get used to it, this is what FE teles will cost

kelly15 wrote:

RubberDials wrote:

mg_k wrote:

Magnar W wrote:

baltimorecaesar wrote:

mg_k wrote:

Retarded price.

I couldn't agree more. This really has me scratching my head and has taken all the wind out of my sails. I own Minolta's MD and Canon's FDn 135mm f/2.8, that I have used over the last 5 years on my NEX-7 and A7RII, and I love them both. I have been banging the native (AF) 135mm drum for the last 2-3 years, and they finally answered with this ridiculous price point. I would have expected this price for a f/2.0 or f/1.8 GM lens, NOT a f/2.8 Batis.

Why not just buy another lens if this weather-sealed apo-tele is too expensive for you? Or too slow at f:2.8?

I am surprised by people who expect Zeiss lenses to be cheap!

I never expect it to be cheap, but just not outrageously overpriced especially it's only a f2.8.

It's impossible to say the lens is overpriced because there is nothing to judge the price by. There aren't any other AF 135 lenses in E-mount, whether apochromatic or with OSS or not. There aren't even any FE tele primes - not proper teles - this is the first one. Believe me, when they come, fast or slow, they are all going to cost at least this much.

It's also interesting that you seem to think the only thing that can affect the price of a lens is it's speed. A bit like assuming that vintage wine should only cost more than wine from a petrol station if it comes in a larger capacity bottle.

Zeiss lenses use better quality glass and materials than Sigma lenses and are made to higher standards. The question is not whether that is the case - it is undoubtedly the case - the question is whether that makes them better lenses for general photography, which does not require the highest standards of optical polishing and purity of glass anyway.

Another thing to consider is the actual T-stop of the lens. The Sigma 135/1.8 is very unlikely to have a T-stop of f1.8 - the Canon 135/2L is f2.3 for example. The Batis lenses have T-stops that match their maximum aperture according to DXOmark.

Do you own a crystal ball?

No. I'm a time traveller.

landshark Contributing Member • Posts: 746
Re: ZEISS Batis 2.8/135 APO [ $1,999.00 ] is officially announced...

joger wrote:

landshark wrote:

I am looking forward to this lens arriving, from all accounts so far it is optically stunning, the size is reasonable, the aperture is fine for my use, I do want a well made lens that has autofocus, I have zero desire to use adapters(own one for nikon lenses), zero desire to only manual focus( did that for more years than I care to remember and still own a number of manual focus film cameras), not thrilled but have gotten use to no aperture ring, do not want to carry the 80-200 around, would I like it to be cheaper sure, but it is an APO. This should be the last lens for my Sony's unless they bring out a 300 or 400. Do I miss the fact that it is not an F2 or faster, not really, I would not want it to be that much heavier or larger.

Mine is on order, hopefully here next month, will let all know how it shoots.

I have zero desire for another bulky and slow lens and I have zero desire to use any kind of zoom on my A7RM2.

I would hardly call F2.8 slow on any Tele

AF on fast primes is extremely welcome and MF on slower and smaller primes is very acceptable for me - I have two lens lines - one for situations where AF is desperately needed and one of situations where MF makes utterly sense.

Agree manual on super wides works just as well as af

I have also two cars - one for traveling and one for fun - the Batis lenses seem to be the family van that is supposed to be spacey but neither very fast nor very agile in handling - I guess this describes it best.

Would hardly describe them as family vans, I have three cars one to drive fast for fun, one to be practical and travel with dogs and family and one for off road expeditions. I like having the right tool for the job at hand, For me manual focus is a waste of time on most lenses if accurate and fast AF is available. Manually focused for over 30 years of my photo career see little point in it now, so for me I could care less how the focus by wire feels on the Batis but if manual focus is what one wants, enjoy what you like.

Of course I am happy for everybody that desires a family van - not my cup of tea though

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__________________________________
A7R II - one camera to rule them all
ISO 9000 definition of quality: 'Degree to which a set of inherent characteristic fulfills requirements'
I am the classic “Windows by Day, Mac by Night user'
“The horizon of many people is a circle with zero radius which they call their point of view.” Albert Einstein
"In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." Douglas Adams

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 landshark's gear list:landshark's gear list
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landshark Contributing Member • Posts: 746
Re: vett93 = 1993 Corvette

vett93 wrote:

I am a muscle/pony car fan. I had a 1993 Corvette back in the days, after a Mustang and a Firebird Trans Am. After these 3 cars, I made a big mistake of buying a German car, a BMW 7-series with factory lowered M-Sport suspension. It drove like a dream when it was not in the shop. It was the single POS car I have ever owned and I was stranded 7 times in the 8 years of ownership. No more German car for me after that. I was on a BMW 7-series forum back then. Everyone's BMW 7-series had tons of problems.

I am now back to American muscle car with a 392 cubic inch engine and 485 HP! When I was shopping for this car, my wife told me that I should get the 707HP version. Wish I had listened to her. Vroommmm....

I have owned one American car and will never own another one, had a couple of Italian cars many years ago, do not think I will repeat that mistake again, I love both the German and Japanese cars I have owned and will  continue to buy from the two countries only in the future. One bad BMW does not represent all of the German auto industry.

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Bob
www.bobdamico.com

 landshark's gear list:landshark's gear list
Sony RX1R II Sony RX100 IV Ricoh GR II Zeiss Batis 18mm F2.8 Zeiss Batis 85mm F1.8 +5 more
upgrader Regular Member • Posts: 362
Re: ZEISS Batis 2.8/135 APO [ $1,999.00 ] is officially announced...

A 135mm is no 85mm, no question here but for portrait I prefer a fast ultra creamy 85mm 1.4 G-Master instead this beast. Against the G-Master I see no advantage at all for this beast.

vett93
vett93 Senior Member • Posts: 4,537
Re: vett93 = 1993 Corvette

landshark wrote:

vett93 wrote:

I am a muscle/pony car fan. I had a 1993 Corvette back in the days, after a Mustang and a Firebird Trans Am. After these 3 cars, I made a big mistake of buying a German car, a BMW 7-series with factory lowered M-Sport suspension. It drove like a dream when it was not in the shop. It was the single POS car I have ever owned and I was stranded 7 times in the 8 years of ownership. No more German car for me after that. I was on a BMW 7-series forum back then. Everyone's BMW 7-series had tons of problems.

I am now back to American muscle car with a 392 cubic inch engine and 485 HP! When I was shopping for this car, my wife told me that I should get the 707HP version. Wish I had listened to her. Vroommmm....

I have owned one American car and will never own another one, had a couple of Italian cars many years ago, do not think I will repeat that mistake again, I love both the German and Japanese cars I have owned and will continue to buy from the two countries only in the future. One bad BMW does not represent all of the German auto industry.

Not to pick on you. On one side you stated that one bad BMW does not represent all German auto industry. But in the beginning of the same paragraph, you stated you had one America car but you won't buy it again. What is the logic?

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Photography enthusiast, from 12mm to 500mm

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landshark Contributing Member • Posts: 746
Re: vett93 = 1993 Corvette

vett93 wrote:

landshark wrote:

vett93 wrote:

I am a muscle/pony car fan. I had a 1993 Corvette back in the days, after a Mustang and a Firebird Trans Am. After these 3 cars, I made a big mistake of buying a German car, a BMW 7-series with factory lowered M-Sport suspension. It drove like a dream when it was not in the shop. It was the single POS car I have ever owned and I was stranded 7 times in the 8 years of ownership. No more German car for me after that. I was on a BMW 7-series forum back then. Everyone's BMW 7-series had tons of problems.

I am now back to American muscle car with a 392 cubic inch engine and 485 HP! When I was shopping for this car, my wife told me that I should get the 707HP version. Wish I had listened to her. Vroommmm....

I have owned one American car and will never own another one, had a couple of Italian cars many years ago, do not think I will repeat that mistake again, I love both the German and Japanese cars I have owned and will continue to buy from the two countries only in the future. One bad BMW does not represent all of the German auto industry.

Not to pick on you. On one side you stated that one bad BMW does not represent all German auto industry. But in the beginning of the same paragraph, you stated you had one America car but you won't buy it again. What is the logic?

The logic is I do not like them, never meant to imply my one American car owner negative experience was because the car fell apart, it did have some issues but nothing more or less than some others I have owned. I just do not like the way they drive, or feel, I drive a lot of rentals because of my work most are American cars, just not me. Now if I was to buy a pickup it more than likely be an American one just not a car. Only recently have GM and Ford realized that pony cars could be made better overall if they corner well. I live in So Cal grew up driving the canyons, handling is the critical thing for me.

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Bob
www.bobdamico.com

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EdwardWestonNYC Contributing Member • Posts: 519
Re: ZEISS Batis 2.8/135 APO [ $1,999.00 ] is officially announced...
1

I'm tired of Sony's crazy premium pricing.

Michael Jardine
Michael Jardine Senior Member • Posts: 1,858
Re: Zeiss violate me with their expensive lenses ...

mg_k wrote:

I never expect it to be cheap, but just not outrageously overpriced especially it's only a f2.8.

Your other 'tele' option is Sony 100mm STF at $1500, also f/2.8.

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mg_k Veteran Member • Posts: 3,204
Re: Zeiss violate me with their expensive lenses ...
1

Michael Jardine wrote:

mg_k wrote:

I never expect it to be cheap, but just not outrageously overpriced especially it's only a f2.8.

Your other 'tele' option is Sony 100mm STF at $1500, also f/2.8.

Between the 2 I'd pick the STF over this anyday.

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