KAF4 firmware for K5 series?: Pentax SLR Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review

KAF4 firmware for K5 series?

Started Feb 14, 2017 | Discussions

scve • Forum Member • Posts: 87

KAF4 firmware for K5 series?

Feb 14, 2017

Who would immediately buy the 55-300 PLM if only it would be usable (other than at full aperture) on the beloved K5 series? I hope the Ricoh/Pentax people count many votes and decide to upgrade the firmware. Many happy K5 (ii, iis) shooters will upgrade one day sooner or later anyway and will by then have bought deeper into Pentax. Everybody happy.

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Pentax 55-300mm F4.5-6.3 ED PLM WR RE Pentax K-5

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AviPro • Senior Member • Posts: 1,254

Re: KAF4 firmware for K5 series?

In reply to scve • Feb 14, 2017

It might not be just a firmware but would need h/w change, hence not included I guess.

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DPPMetro • Regular Member • Posts: 408

Re: KAF4 firmware for K5 series?

In reply to AviPro • Feb 14, 2017

Jhaakas wrote:

It might not be just a firmware but would need h/w change, hence not included I guess.

It's not a hardware change.

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zakaria • Veteran Member • Posts: 6,556

Re: KAF4 firmware for K5 series?

In reply to scve • Feb 14, 2017

scve wrote:

Who would immediately buy the 55-300 PLM if only it would be usable (other than at full aperture) on the beloved K5 series? I hope the Ricoh/Pentax people count many votes and decide to upgrade the firmware. Many happy K5 (ii, iis) shooters will upgrade one day sooner or later anyway and will by then have bought deeper into Pentax. Everybody happy.

I think Ricoh will not support k5 series with this kind of lenses just for to push k5 users to the new cameras models.

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pentaxian .

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miles green • Veteran Member • Posts: 7,827

Re: KAF4 firmware for K5 series?

In reply to scve • Feb 14, 2017

scve wrote:

Who would immediately buy the 55-300 PLM if only it would be usable (other than at full aperture) on the beloved K5 series? I hope the Ricoh/Pentax people count many votes and decide to upgrade the firmware. Many happy K5 (ii, iis) shooters will upgrade one day sooner or later anyway and will by then have bought deeper into Pentax. Everybody happy.

i read something about the K5(ii) not having enough ram/rom to support the required FW changes. I don't remember who said it, dut it sounds like it's not going to happen.

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Miles Green
Pentaxian with chronic LBA since 1997
Corfu, Greece
N.B. All my images are protected by Copyright

miles green's gear list:miles green's gear list

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tassosDA • Contributing Member • Posts: 510

Re: KAF4 firmware for K5 series?

In reply to scve • Feb 14, 2017

The main problem seems to be the processor: K-5 series bodies have the Prime II processor, newer bodies have the Prime III (k-3) and Prime M (K-50, K-70) processor. So I'm afraid there will not be an upgrade for our beloved K-5's...

tassosDA's gear list:tassosDA's gear list

Pentax K10D Pentax K-5 II Pentax smc DA 18-55mm F3.5-5.6 AL Sigma 50mm F1.4 EX DG HSM Sigma 70-200mm F2.8 EX DG Macro HSM II +4 more

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ozdean • Forum Pro • Posts: 28,665

Re: KAF4 firmware for K5 series?

In reply to scve • Feb 14, 2017

Pentax are very good at back dating firmware for us, I am sure if they could they would so I'd say its hardware.

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Regards Dean - Capturing Creation
N.B. All my Images are Protected by Copyright

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(unknown member) • Senior Member • Posts: 2,206

Re: KAF4 firmware for K5 series?

In reply to tassosDA • Feb 14, 2017

tassosDA wrote:

The main problem seems to be the processor: K-5 series bodies have the Prime II processor, newer bodies have the Prime III (k-3) and Prime M (K-50, K-70) processor. So I'm afraid there will not be an upgrade for our beloved K-5's...

I doubt that is it.

Ricoh didn't offer the K-30 the KAF4 update, and that is the same internals as the K-50.

The real truth is they want us to give them more money in the form of buying a new camera.

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tassosDA • Contributing Member • Posts: 510

Re: KAF4 firmware for K5 series?

In reply to (unknown member) • Feb 14, 2017

Smitty1 wrote:

tassosDA wrote:

The main problem seems to be the processor: K-5 series bodies have the Prime II processor, newer bodies have the Prime III (k-3) and Prime M (K-50, K-70) processor. So I'm afraid there will not be an upgrade for our beloved K-5's...

I doubt that is it.

Ricoh didn't offer the K-30 the KAF4 update, and that is the same internals as the K-50.

The real truth is they want us to give them more money in the form of buying a new camera.

Good point about the K-30, it has indeed the Prime M processor!

tassosDA's gear list:tassosDA's gear list

Pentax K10D Pentax K-5 II Pentax smc DA 18-55mm F3.5-5.6 AL Sigma 50mm F1.4 EX DG HSM Sigma 70-200mm F2.8 EX DG Macro HSM II +4 more

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Alex Sarbu • Forum Pro • Posts: 13,257

Re: KAF4 firmware for K5 series?

In reply to DPPMetro • Feb 14, 2017

DPPMetro wrote:

Jhaakas wrote:

It might not be just a firmware but would need h/w change, hence not included I guess.

It's not a hardware change.

How do you know that?

Alex

Alex Sarbu's gear list:Alex Sarbu's gear list

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(unknown member) • Senior Member • Posts: 2,206

Re: KAF4 firmware for K5 series?

In reply to Alex Sarbu • Feb 14, 2017

Alex Sarbu wrote:

DPPMetro wrote:

Jhaakas wrote:

It might not be just a firmware but would need h/w change, hence not included I guess.

It's not a hardware change.

How do you know that?

Aren't they simply sending the aperture value to the lens to tell it how far to open?

If so, that would simply be code.

It would also explain how they can backport older cameras with a firmware update.

Ricoh isn't a charity. They want us to upgrade to one of these newer cameras.

I read their is a K-1 firmware update coming in a couple of months.. I'd see what they offer then for other cameras. But I wouldn't hold my breath for any further backporting of firmware KAF4 support.

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PhotoHawk • Contributing Member • Posts: 849

Re: KAF4 firmware for K5 series?

In reply to tassosDA • Feb 14, 2017

tassosDA wrote:

The main problem seems to be the processor: K-5 series bodies have the Prime II processor, newer bodies have the Prime III (k-3) and Prime M (K-50, K-70) processor. So I'm afraid there will not be an upgrade for our beloved K-5's...

The K-70 has the Prime MII. The K-50 had the Prime M1. Likely reason for not having the upgrade for the K5 series, K50 and earlier would be lack of processor eerom space. And if there were space then I'd far rather have them upgrade the AF algorithms. Not much good have a fast focusing lens if the AF struggles.

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James O'Neill • Veteran Member • Posts: 6,117

Re: KAF4 firmware for K5 series?

In reply to scve • Feb 14, 2017

scve wrote:

Who would immediately buy the 55-300 PLM if only it would be usable (other than at full aperture) on the beloved K5 series?

Speaking as a K5 owner , I think the number of K5 owners not looking to upgrade the body but looking for a new 55-300 is small.

The K5 came out in 2010 and K5 II in 2012 and the K3 replaced it in 2013. So it has been off the market for long enough not to expect much in the way of updates. The K3 has a different Fujitsu CPU (a.k.a. "Prime"), so there may reasons why code for it can't be ported back to the K5.

At the moment there is only one such lens so not much of a push to upgrade.

James O'Neill's gear list:James O'Neill's gear list

Pentax K-5 IIs Pentax K-1 Pentax smc FA 50mm F1.4 Pentax smc DA 18-250mm F3.5-6.3 Pentax smc FA 43mm F1.9 Limited +3 more

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Mark Ransom • Veteran Member • Posts: 8,209

Re: KAF4 firmware for K5 series?

In reply to (unknown member) • Feb 14, 2017

Smitty1 wrote:

tassosDA wrote:

The main problem seems to be the processor: K-5 series bodies have the Prime II processor, newer bodies have the Prime III (k-3) and Prime M (K-50, K-70) processor. So I'm afraid there will not be an upgrade for our beloved K-5's...

I doubt that is it.

Ricoh didn't offer the K-30 the KAF4 update, and that is the same internals as the K-50.

The real truth is they want us to give them more money in the form of buying a new camera.

No need to ascribe selfish motives to it. Firmware updates don't just create themselves, they need people to do the work of developing, testing, and deploying those updates. It's simply a question of where you draw the line - it would be silly to go all the way back to the *ist-D. The more time they spend working on firmware updates, the less time they have to develop the new goodness that we expect for the future.

There might be an issue with the speed of the AF circuitry too, maybe it can't keep up with the new lens! The processor is only one part.

Mark Ransom's gear list:Mark Ransom's gear list

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(unknown member) • Senior Member • Posts: 2,206

Re: KAF4 firmware for K5 series?

In reply to Mark Ransom • Feb 14, 2017

Mark Ransom wrote:

Smitty1 wrote:

tassosDA wrote:

The main problem seems to be the processor: K-5 series bodies have the Prime II processor, newer bodies have the Prime III (k-3) and Prime M (K-50, K-70) processor. So I'm afraid there will not be an upgrade for our beloved K-5's...

I doubt that is it.

Ricoh didn't offer the K-30 the KAF4 update, and that is the same internals as the K-50.

The real truth is they want us to give them more money in the form of buying a new camera.

No need to ascribe selfish motives to it. Firmware updates don't just create themselves, they need people to do the work of developing, testing, and deploying those updates. It's simply a question of where you draw the line - it would be silly to go all the way back to the *ist-D. The more time they spend working on firmware updates, the less time they have to develop the new goodness that we expect for the future.

There might be an issue with the speed of the AF circuitry too, maybe it can't keep up with the new lens! The processor is only one part.

Yet they're a business. There prime motive is to make money.

They appear to have drawn the line at their current products on the market.

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BrianA2 • Regular Member • Posts: 118

Re: KAF4 firmware for K-30?

In reply to (unknown member) • Feb 15, 2017

Smitty1 wrote:

Mark Ransom wrote:

Smitty1 wrote:

tassosDA wrote:

The main problem seems to be the processor: K-5 series bodies have the Prime II processor, newer bodies have the Prime III (k-3) and Prime M (K-50, K-70) processor. So I'm afraid there will not be an upgrade for our beloved K-5's...

I doubt that is it.

Ricoh didn't offer the K-30 the KAF4 update, and that is the same internals as the K-50.

The real truth is they want us to give them more money in the form of buying a new camera.

No need to ascribe selfish motives to it. Firmware updates don't just create themselves, they need people to do the work of developing, testing, and deploying those updates. It's simply a question of where you draw the line - it would be silly to go all the way back to the *ist-D. The more time they spend working on firmware updates, the less time they have to develop the new goodness that we expect for the future.

There might be an issue with the speed of the AF circuitry too, maybe it can't keep up with the new lens! The processor is only one part.

Yet they're a business. There prime motive is to make money.

They appear to have drawn the line at their current products on the market.

If they offered a firmware update for the K-30 I would be very tempted to buy a 55-300 PLM as I have a good body with a dead aperture block I would like to use.

BrianA2's gear list:BrianA2's gear list

Minolta DiMAGE 7 Minolta DiMAGE A1 Konica Minolta DiMAGE A2 Canon EOS 40D Pentax K-r +10 more

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AviPro • Senior Member • Posts: 1,254

Re: KAF4 firmware for K5 series?

In reply to Mark Ransom • Feb 15, 2017

Mark Ransom wrote:

It's simply a question of where you draw the line -

They drew the line missing a major pro level series - the K-5. A reasonable line could have been say 5 years, instead now it is more like 3 years. The mounts seem physically the same and with similar connection points so might as well be a software update.

This is also a major breakthrough in AF speed and a lot of existing K5 owners will be happy to receive it!

That takes me back to my earlier decision point - I was seriously contemplating the K50 since it was newer that K5II, however instead I opted for K5II being a pro body... seems newer would have been better!!

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--Avi

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PhotoHawk • Contributing Member • Posts: 849

Re: KAF4 firmware for K5 series?

In reply to James O'Neill • Feb 16, 2017

James O'Neill wrote:

scve wrote:

Who would immediately buy the 55-300 PLM if only it would be usable (other than at full aperture) on the beloved K5 series?

Speaking as a K5 owner , I think the number of K5 owners not looking to upgrade the body but looking for a new 55-300 is small.

The K5 came out in 2010 and K5 II in 2012 and the K3 replaced it in 2013. So it has been off the market for long enough not to expect much in the way of updates. The K3 has a different Fujitsu CPU (a.k.a. "Prime"), so there may reasons why code for it can't be ported back to the K5.

At the moment there is only one such lens so not much of a push to upgrade.

The K5 and K3 share the same family of Image Processors - Milbeaut. They used to be Fujitsu but the family is now owned by Socionext. K5 has the M5 the K3 the M6. The newer models likely use the M7. They are all ARM microcontroller based. Same OS and compilers. So in theory the code could be developed and issued. But your comments about age of the K5 and the market are quite likely something Pentax has considered. And if one considers he K5 then why not the K7 or Kr as well? They all have the Prime II (Milbeaut M6) whereas the K3 has the Prime III (Milbeaut M7).

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flektogon • Veteran Member • Posts: 6,226

Re: KAF4 firmware for K5 series?

In reply to PhotoHawk • Feb 16, 2017

PhotoHawk wrote:

James O'Neill wrote:

scve wrote:

Who would immediately buy the 55-300 PLM if only it would be usable (other than at full aperture) on the beloved K5 series?

Speaking as a K5 owner , I think the number of K5 owners not looking to upgrade the body but looking for a new 55-300 is small.

The K5 came out in 2010 and K5 II in 2012 and the K3 replaced it in 2013. So it has been off the market for long enough not to expect much in the way of updates. The K3 has a different Fujitsu CPU (a.k.a. "Prime"), so there may reasons why code for it can't be ported back to the K5.

At the moment there is only one such lens so not much of a push to upgrade.

The K5 and K3 share the same family of Image Processors - Milbeaut. They used to be Fujitsu but the family is now owned by Socionext. K5 has the M5 the K3 the M6. The newer models likely use the M7. They are all ARM microcontroller based. Same OS and compilers. So in theory the code could be developed and issued. But your comments about age of the K5 and the market are quite likely something Pentax has considered. And if one considers he K5 then why not the K7 or Kr as well? They all have the Prime II (Milbeaut M6) whereas the K3 has the Prime III (Milbeaut M7).

Is there any correlation between the Milbeaut Mx and the Cortex Mx series?

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Regards,
Peter

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AlbertSiegel • Contributing Member • Posts: 591

Re: KAF4 firmware for K5 series?

In reply to scve • Feb 17, 2017

The reason you will not see KAF4 support for older cameras is they do not have enough memory. This comes directly from the people at Ricoh I've spoken with during one of my visits to their head office.

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KAF4 firmware for K5 series?

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