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EF-M 15-45 extremely soft?

Started Jan 31, 2017 | Discussions
OP neb Junior Member • Posts: 35
Re: EF-M 15-45 extremely soft?

Can try that, although most of my shooting intended for this lens is candid in less-than-optimal lighting, so stopping down to f8 would incur a greater shutter / ISO penalty than I would be happy with.

Abu Mahendra Veteran Member • Posts: 5,312
Re: EF-M 15-45 extremely soft?

Alan Sh wrote:

What happens if you shoot but put the aperture to F8?

Alan

ISO spikes up. I like the 24mm (FF FoV eq.) for human-scapes. Here is the M already at ISO1600 at 15mm and f/3.5. F/8 would put the ISO at 6400+, a no-go zone on the M.

These are situations where the M system, lacking a fast wide lens, loses out to FF. A 6D with the 24-70LII, 24LII or the 16-35LIS are deadly here...

6D & 16-35LIS @ f/4, 25mm, ISO500

The L lens will also have better contrast wide open.

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Alan Sh Senior Member • Posts: 2,757
Re: EF-M 15-45 extremely soft?

neb wrote:

Can try that, although most of my shooting intended for this lens is candid in less-than-optimal lighting, so stopping down to f8 would incur a greater shutter / ISO penalty than I would be happy with.

OK - back to my original point - did you download the pictures I offered and compared them with yours for softness? It may be that your 15-45 is perfect once it's been processed with DLO adjustment.

Alan

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Mick P Regular Member • Posts: 259
Re: EF-M 15-45 extremely soft?

Abu Mahendra wrote:

Alan Sh wrote:

What happens if you shoot but put the aperture to F8?

Alan

ISO spikes up. I like the 24mm (FF FoV eq.) for human-scapes. Here is the M already at ISO1600 at 15mm and f/3.5. F/8 would put the ISO at 6400+, a no-go zone on the M.

These are situations where the M system, lacking a fast wide lens, loses out to FF. A 6D with the 24-70LII, 24LII or the 16-35LIS are deadly here...

6D & 16-35LIS @ f/4, 25mm, ISO500

The L lens will also have better contrast wide open.

An L lens on a full frame body is an advantage over a $100 kit zoom?  Are you sure?  Perhaps it's just confirmation bias?

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OP neb Junior Member • Posts: 35
Re: EF-M 15-45 extremely soft?
1

Alan Sh wrote:

neb wrote:

Can try that, although most of my shooting intended for this lens is candid in less-than-optimal lighting, so stopping down to f8 would incur a greater shutter / ISO penalty than I would be happy with.

OK - back to my original point - did you download the pictures I offered and compared them with yours for softness? It may be that your 15-45 is perfect once it's been processed with DLO adjustment.

I shoot JPG, so DLO would not work for me. Frankly, the softness indicates information has already been lost (note that the 15-45 file size was 12.8MB while the 22 file size was 14.2MB--11% larger), so wouldn't I just be faking sharpness at this point?

Also, having a look at the MTF chart at 15, it appears that stopping down to f8 would indeed provide a significant increase in sharpness:

alan brown Contributing Member • Posts: 805
Re: EF-M 15-45 extremely soft?
1

Lightgreen wrote:

M02 wrote:

My copy of the 15-45, like yours, is very soft at the edges, until you stop down at least a couple of stops. It is the only EF-M lens that I have been disappointed with. All the others have been excellent. Some people like it though, so maybe there is copy variation. I recently acquired a 18-150 which I think is stunning for what it is, so you might consider that.

I gotta ask, off topic, your equipment list, is current?

Amazing, an original 5D, and lenses of that era. Truth told, that's all you need is a couple good primes and a 5D and a good zoom or two.

On topic, yes the 15-45 is a bit soft on the corners. I believe the MTF charts reflect this. It's a compromise made for keeping the size/weight down it would appear. It is sharp in the center though, which is arguably where it counts.

Probably most forum members have seen the photozone review of the 15-45, but if you haven't, here it is:

http://www.photozone.de/canon-eos/972-canon_m1545_3563?start=1

Yes, the lens is quite soft wide open at 15mm, but stopping down to 5.6 improves the softness rather dramatically.  It seems that the other f/stops and focal lengths are very good, maybe not up to the 11-22, but still very good.

One of the problem areas for the m lenses is vignetting.  I read somewhere that it more likely the sensor causing this than the lens itself.  I wonder if you put the ef-s 24mm with adapter on the M3 or M5 it would show more vignetting (uncorrected raw) the the ef-s 24mm on, say, the SL-1?

If I upgrade my M3 to the M5, I would go ahead and get the 15-45 mainly because there is quite a difference between 24mm (FF) and the almost 29mm (FF) with the 18-55. BTW, I have the 11-22, 22, and 18-55.

Th M5 seems like a fine camera, but it does come up a little short for what I would like.  Shutter is a little loud and there is no silent shutter for my stealth moments.  The histogram is huge on the M3 and reportedly smaller on the M5.  I would also like "blinkies" as an option.  Also, having settings show only after slight pressing of the shutter button seems silly.  Delay with flash pictures? Crippling to me, but I don't use flash often.  So, still pondering. Of course I realize that many, perhaps most, are not bothered by my minor points.

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alan brown

Abu Mahendra Veteran Member • Posts: 5,312
Re: EF-M 15-45 extremely soft?

neb wrote:

Alan Sh wrote:

neb wrote:

Can try that, although most of my shooting intended for this lens is candid in less-than-optimal lighting, so stopping down to f8 would incur a greater shutter / ISO penalty than I would be happy with.

OK - back to my original point - did you download the pictures I offered and compared them with yours for softness? It may be that your 15-45 is perfect once it's been processed with DLO adjustment.

I shoot JPG, so DLO would not work for me. Frankly, the softness indicates information has already been lost (note that the 15-45 file size was 12.8MB while the 22 file size was 14.2MB--11% larger), so wouldn't I just be faking sharpness at this point?

Also, having a look at the MTF chart at 15, it appears that stopping down to f8 would indeed provide a significant increase in sharpness:

That MTF chart is overly optimistic for the wide end. In my thread 'Clash with the Titan' I posted controlled test images showing that even at f/7.1 the lens cannot match the M11-22IS and 16-35LIS in the far corners. In other words, its corners never really become great.

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OP neb Junior Member • Posts: 35
Re: EF-M 15-45 extremely soft?

Well, I just picked up a 11-22. Problem solved, at least on the wide end. Not a bad sales strategy, Canon...

rickysuper
rickysuper Regular Member • Posts: 103
Re: EF-M 15-45 extremely soft?
1

15, 24, 45mm compare

15mm

24mm

45mm

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dpr4bb Senior Member • Posts: 1,418
Re: EF-M 15-45 extremely soft?

rickysuper wrote:

15, 24, 45mm compare

15mm

24mm

45mm

Thanks for sharing.

It's soft towards the edges/corners at 15mm even stopped down to f/6.3

If you had raw files that you could share, we could try and see if DLO would help.

rickysuper
rickysuper Regular Member • Posts: 103
Re: EF-M 15-45 extremely soft?
1

Sorry I don't have RAW files. BTW I don't have high expectations of a US$100 kit lens. I just bought it to test the Combine IS of the video filming and panning shooting, or casual photo shooting.

I will use the Tokina AT-X Pro 12-24mm f/4 (IF) DX for serious wide shooting.

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anggitpras
anggitpras New Member • Posts: 13
Re: EF-M 15-45 extremely soft?

Totally agree! But why i expect too much from a hundred dollar lens? I mean it will be a different story when you compared to Rokinon or EF L series with an adapter. You get what you pay.

Just curious, why great device like M5 attached to EFM 15-45. Why Canon didn't make 15-45 mark II.

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rickysuper
rickysuper Regular Member • Posts: 103
Re: EF-M 15-45 extremely soft?

anggitpras wrote:

Totally agree! But why i expect too much from a hundred dollar lens? I mean it will be a different story when you compared to Rokinon or EF L series with an adapter. You get what you pay.

Just curious, why great device like M5 attached to EFM 15-45. Why Canon didn't make 15-45 mark II.

The most funny was that EF-M 15-45mm was one of the only two lens support Combine IS (this make me bought this lens).  But the quality was the worst.

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StevenSHH
StevenSHH Contributing Member • Posts: 609
Re: EF-M 15-45 extremely soft?

Was the kit lens for M10, so the target / market was for compact , light weight, good IS for still and video, sharp at center. It achieves the main goals as kit lens beautifully.

We can just hope an enthusiast model zoom or prime will be available.  I do like build quality of most   EF-M lens in comparison to EF-S kit ones. For example EF-M 18-55mm vs any EF-S 18-55mm IS LENS.

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OP neb Junior Member • Posts: 35
Re: EF-M 15-45 extremely soft?

Just another test. Note the significantly softer right edge compared to the left, at f/7.1 no less. Is this really considered an acceptable level of performance?

Abu Mahendra Veteran Member • Posts: 5,312
Re: EF-M 15-45 extremely soft?

That's quite soft, left and right, and don't quite look right. Here is f/7.1 at 15mm, though at much closer focusing distances. Oh, and they are at 1/4, 1/5 seconds with IS handheld...

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MannyV
MannyV Senior Member • Posts: 1,055
Re: EF-M 15-45 extremely soft?

Abu Mahendra wrote:

That's quite soft, left and right, and don't quite look right. Here is f/7.1 at 15mm, though at much closer focusing distances. Oh, and they are at 1/4, 1/5 seconds with IS handheld...

Whoa whats the camera doing in the loo

Abu Mahendra Veteran Member • Posts: 5,312
The Toilets of Paradise

MannyV wrote:

Abu Mahendra wrote:

That's quite soft, left and right, and don't quite look right. Here is f/7.1 at 15mm, though at much closer focusing distances. Oh, and they are at 1/4, 1/5 seconds with IS handheld...

Whoa whats the camera doing in the loo

I live in Bali. I've started a phocumentary The Toilets of Paradise.

f/7.1, 15mm, 1/4 IS handheld

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photo_mark New Member • Posts: 5
Re: EF-M 15-45 extremely soft?

Those images are on the soft side.

HaroldC3
HaroldC3 Veteran Member • Posts: 3,067
Re: EF-M 15-45 extremely soft?
2

photo_mark wrote:

Those images are on the soft side.

You resurrected a 6 year old thread to say this?

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