Upgrade to E-P5 or E-M10 mk II or GX80/85 or something else?

Oh, I lived under the impression that the 0 sec anti shock completely cures the problem, but if it disables sequential shooting that's really a shame! Even more reason to try sell my VF-4 and get E-M10mk2 or GX80. Thanks!

I have the E-P5 as my second camera and for me, the only reason I'd consider E-M10 II (if it were available at the time), would be for the touch-pad AF control. Not the EVF, flash, or video.

vallecano wrote:

I have an E-M10 and am considering an upgrade to a PEN-F. I am puzzled over your statement “I do miss the lightweight and smallish size of my EM10”. I do not have access to a PEN-F but did compare the physical size/weight and the difference is minimal. Can you explain why it is feels smaller?

Looking strictly at the specs,

• EM10: 119 x 82 x 46 @ 396g
• PEN-F: 125 x 72 x 37 @ 427g

the PEN-F measures smaller, volume-wise.  However ergonomically, when the camera is in your hand, the EM10's flash-hump and protruded eye-piece kind of disappear and the body feels and handles smaller.

Your hand will also feel the ~30g difference because of lack of (front) grip on the PEN-F - I have to add a half-case-grip:

vallecano wrote:

I have an E-M10 and am considering an upgrade to a PEN-F...

It's worth every penny the upgrade

And to repeat, I do miss my EM10 and I won't have sold it if I didn't need the GX85 for 8mp still grabs from 4K burst video - my kids' high school swim meets and basketball games.

I have an E-P5 currently, and I can't really make a good argument to myself (or my wife!) on replacing it with anything but an EM-1 mk2, which is too much camera for me. The EM-10-2 or PEN-F don't seem to have anything that much more capable or different than an EP-5. There's a few things that are slightly better, like maybe IQ or the increased resolution of the Pen-F, but not enough to suck the money out of my wallet. The 'Live Composite' feature is the only thing I feel like I'm missing out on.

Also, I've really gotten used to having a tilting VF. I know that's a small thing, but I use that capability a lot! Is that weird? Also, Having a removable VF is nice because an EP-5 with a 20/1.7 is definitely pocketable, though as others have noted the EM-10-2 is a pretty small camera. I've never held a GX80 but it looks pretty small, too.

I think if you have/use a larger lens regularly (something larger than 12-40 pro), you might go with something other than an E-P5.

Thanks for this info which is helpful.

Earl
Madrid

Well, considering I have E-PL6, which isn't clear from my first post now that I re-read it, these cameras all are a level up for me already, aren't they?

I know the EVF on GX80 can't match VF4. I'm pretty sure neither can the one on E-M10 mark II. That said, the only cameras that are upgrades that it fits are E-M1, E-M5 and E-P5 and it feels a bit pointless on two of those since they have built in EVFs. I rarely enough use EVF already since it's bit of a hassle to put it on so I don't think I'd miss it too much.

I'm also not considering non-MFT cameras. I have enough lenses that changing the system does not feel like it's worth it.

It’s only an upgrade if you’re needing the extra features that the other cameras offers. If the E-PL6 is lacking feature(s) you need then it would make sense to upgrade to a new camera that has the feature(s). I mainly take photos of my baby (now toddler). I started out with a E-PL6 and I got a major case of GAS and went crazy buying camera bodies and lens. I used the VF-4 on the E-PL6 and really liked it. Then I bought a M10 Mark I since I wanted the EVF to be built-in instead of an add-on. Then I bought a M5 Mark II on Cyber Monday and just recently picked up a Panasonic GX85 for a great price. So in a 1 year time frame, I tried 4 different cameras. Right now I still have the Panasonic GX85 and the Olympus M5 Mark II.

With all those cameras, IMO, the image quality look very similar. I use JPEG out of camera and I don’t use RAW. Most of those pictures get saved onto the PC or ends up on Facebook. What sets each camera a part are the features. So you need to ask yourself do you want or need those features.

The EVF on the Olympus cameras are much better than the one on the GX85(GX80). I can’t use the EVF too long on the GX85 as it will give me a headache. Since you don’t use the EVF too often that shouldn’t be an issue. The body is slightly larger than the E-PL6 but it feel better in the hand (to me).

As IBIS, all of those cameras will be much better than the E-PL6. The GX85 isn’t as good as the M5 Mark II on the long lenses but it great for videos.

As I said earlier what is it that you’re needing/wanting that the E-PL6 can’t fulfill? I’m really like the GX85 right now and I do find myself using the GX85 more than the M5 Mark II for some reason.

Elmokki wrote:

I know the EVF on GX80 can't match VF4. I'm pretty sure neither can the one on E-M10 mark II. That said, the only cameras that are upgrades that it fits are E-M1, E-M5 and E-P5 and it feels a bit pointless on two of those since they have built in EVFs. I rarely enough use EVF already since it's bit of a hassle to put it on so I don't think I'd miss it too much.

I'm also not considering non-MFT cameras. I have enough lenses that changing the system does not feel like it's worth it.

So just to clarify: the VF-4 is the best viewfinder in MFT. PEOD. You do give up when you select a different body. You are gaining handling and integration with any of the cameras you are discussing.

I am still stuck trying to decide bodies myself. Same situation (E-PL5 + VF-4). Mine is further impacted by my glasses and my current lens choice. The Panasonic bodies focus my favorite lens much slower (43 14-54mm Mk II). On any of the Olympus bodies it is a rapid focus as a contrast detect lens. Now, I love this lens, so I wanted to compare the viewfinder and the focus speed. The bodies I used for testing were: E-M10.2, E-M5.2, GX85 and G85.

Viewfinder comparison to VF-4. E-M10.2 and E-M5.2 are not as bright and do not have enough eye relief so the corners are clipped off when using the viewfinder built into the camera with my glasses on though I do wear my glasses fairly far far off my eyes. The GX85 was no where near as bright and clear, and kinda looks funny (camcorder feeling). It was however visibly easier to see corner to corner without moving the camera. The G85 had a nice and bright, though still weird looking (camcorder look) but was very image centric and nice. It was notably the best for wearing glasses, however the information was very… non-distinct as everything was displayed in white (can this be changed). Its nice but makes it less noticeable when you may have information you need but nicely focuses you on the image.

Handling comparison. In hand handling, the G85 was the nicest grip, the E-M10.2 actually had the nicest controls, followed by the G85 and E-M5.2. All of them are a major step up from the E-PL5 (E-PL6 is basically identical).

In focus speed with the old Oly 14-54mm Mk II, in the indoors store test? The speed difference was insane. The E-M10.2 and E-M5.2 were very, very fast. The E-PL5 is actually about like the old Contax G series cameras r the old 50/2 Macro on an E-1. The G85 and GX85… were significantly slower. Like count to one almost two between focus.

This is completely a store shelves demo test of cameras I had available that should be on my list. The problem is… I was disappointed in the absolute most important part of the Olys to me: the viewfinder.

No E-M1, but with the viewfinder issue… kinda sucks.

AznJunkie wrote:

It’s only an upgrade if you’re needing the extra features that the other cameras offers. If the E-PL6 is lacking feature(s) you need then it would make sense to upgrade to a new camera that has the feature(s). I mainly take photos of my baby (now toddler). I started out with a E-PL6 and I got a major case of GAS and went crazy buying camera bodies and lens. I used the VF-4 on the E-PL6 and really liked it. Then I bought a M10 Mark I since I wanted the EVF to be built-in instead of an add-on. Then I bought a M5 Mark II on Cyber Monday and just recently picked up a Panasonic GX85 for a great price. So in a 1 year time frame, I tried 4 different cameras. Right now I still have the Panasonic GX85 and the Olympus M5 Mark II.

With all those cameras, IMO, the image quality look very similar. I use JPEG out of camera and I don’t use RAW. Most of those pictures get saved onto the PC or ends up on Facebook. What sets each camera a part are the features. So you need to ask yourself do you want or need those features.

The EVF on the Olympus cameras are much better than the one on the GX85(GX80). I can’t use the EVF too long on the GX85 as it will give me a headache. Since you don’t use the EVF too often that shouldn’t be an issue. The body is slightly larger than the E-PL6 but it feel better in the hand (to me).

As IBIS, all of those cameras will be much better than the E-PL6. The GX85 isn’t as good as the M5 Mark II on the long lenses but it great for videos.

As I said earlier what is it that you’re needing/wanting that the E-PL6 can’t fulfill? I’m really like the GX85 right now and I do find myself using the GX85 more than the M5 Mark II for some reason.

I completely recognize that the sensor on E-PL6 is pretty close to as good as you can get in an MFT body. In fact I'd probably be happy with a worse sensor if I hadn't used this one. I'm really not expecting a bump in image quality but a bump in features.

Then again I did already joke to my girlfriend that if I'm buying whatever I'm planning to buy now, I'm probably buying an E-M1mk2 next year. I truly hope it really was a joke and not a self-told prophecy.

The thing is:

- The 5-axis stabilization has been hyped so much that I really want to see if it is as good as it sounds like. Even one more stop over the really basic 2-axis stabilization in my E-PL6 would be quite useful occasionally, but I am expecting two at least, which would be amazing.

- E-PL6 has just one control dial. This has been passable in aperture or shutter priority, but in manual mode when I occasionally play around with remote triggering a flash it's pretty annoying. That said, being able to tweak exposure compensation more easily might be nice for A and S modes too.

- Having mentioned flashes, I use the tiny flash that came with my camera to optically trigger an off camera flash that's bigger than my camera. It's somewhat annoying to fool around with a separate flash for this, though it's still a very minor issue.

- The viewfinder. I rarely use my VF-4 now. I keep wondering if I'd simply use a VF, even an inferior one, more just because it'd be always ready. VF-4 is a nice viewfinder, but it's also a huge extruding piece of plastic on top of a tiny E-PL6. It's not something I like to keep on the camera unless I know I need it. Then again wearing glasses seems to be a real problem for using a viewfinder in the first place. VF-4 feels much better without glasses, but I have fairly strong astigmatism in both of my eyes and that's not something the diopter setting can compensate for.

There are also minor other features I'm excited to try. Focus bracketing sounds great and apparently GX80/85 has focus stacking, which sounds even better. There are some other things like WiFi too, which I've slowly began to yearn for.

I wouldn't even discount video completely. I actually did video a friends wedding once. She did know my lack of skill and the general lack of equipment and I think she had sufficiently low expectation that she was positively surprised. However, I am still annoyed by the results myself. Just 60fps and proper IBIS during video would've made it look much better. The image quality was also adequate at best. I suppose some of the washed out colors might've been fixable in post, but I had even less idea on how to edit video then than I do now.

But, having written all that, I'm pretty sure some of the hunger for features I listed above is simply GAS.

Oh, I know VF-4 is the best.

Is VF-4 perfect for you with glasses? I, too, have glasses and I cannot see all the corners at once even with VF-4. It's also a bit annoying to center the viewfinder on your eye on a flat glass surface compared to putting it on your eye without glasses. I guess I could get contact lenses, but I'm really not going to do that for a camera.

This is one of the reasons I kind of want to sell my VF-4 and move to an integrated EVF. All it needs to be is good enough for the occasional shot and I figured that since using glasses clips the corners off slightly from VF-4, maybe a smaller magnification EVF wouldn't be that bad. Additionally, of course, the VF-4 is a big plastic clump on top of a fairly small camera. It's pretty unwieldy.

If you can, go out and see if you can hold each of the camera. That could dictate which camera you should go with. I thought they would feel the same but that’s not the case. The M10 Mark 1 felt too small and I had to use the optional grip. The M5 Mark II feels fine and felt off with the Fotodiox grip. The GX85 felt good but I had to adjust my grip to use the shutter button.

The IBIS does indeed make a difference on static subject (in low light or lower ISO) or if you have shaky hands. IBIS with electronic shutter can produce some very sharp picture. Another big benefit is when using long telephoto lens. It helps stabilize the image in the viewfinder which helps a lot with composing the picture.

I agree completely with the single control dial. Have dual control dial is great.

As for the VF-4 viewfinder, I didn’t feel it was better than the M10 or the M5 Mark II. I wear contacts and I can see corner to corner without any issues. I find myself using the Viewfinder a lot more when it was built in. Like you I felt the VF-4 was big and out of place. The GX85 viewfinder is like looking through a cheap telescope. It’s hard to find a good eye relief with everything nice and sharp.

The video is better on the GX85. People complain about the 1080P on the GX85 but I thought it was much better than the Olympus 1080P. I honestly feel you can’t go wrong with the M10 Mark II or the GX85.