Putting the Sharpness of the 30mm and 85mm in Perspective

Both of these lenses scored 14 perceptual megapixels on DXO Mark. I'm going to assume perfect scaling for these comparisons even though we don't get that quite in real life, it can be better or worse. They were tested on the NX20, 20 MP.

Out of the m4/3 lenses tested, only 2 are sharper. (looking at a mix of bodies, mostly 16 MP and perfect scaling to 20 MP by (PMP/16)*20

From the Canon lenses, only 2 are sharper (looking at tests on the comparable MP 7DII)

From the EF-M, EF-S, Sony E-mount APS-C nothing is sharper.

Sony full frame FE.... appear to be eating everyone's lunch with a whopping 13 sharper lenses. All tested on the A7RII, so the lack of an AA filter could be a real contributer here. Actually, it is almost certainly the case, as I look over to Sony A mount results (on the also 42 MP sensor of the Alpha 99 II) and see that none of those are sharper after scaling than the NX 30 and 85.

Hold on now though, Nikon FF has an even larger group, hosting more than 20 lenses that run sharper after scaling. Wow.

Canon FF has some scaling wonders, but a pedestrian 4 only, small change over the other two. Probably what is hurting them here is that the sensor is out pacing the lenses. So we can see that scaling isn't always great here, looking at the 5DIV in particular, it's lower 30 MP brings a host of additional lenses into the fold over the Samsung lenses.

So what have I learned here? The 85 and 30 are far sharper than many using other systems would like to admit, but, we should be cautious because it's not clear where these lenses will start having more diminishing returns that we see the FF cameras start having after the 30-36 MP range (though some of the Sony FF lenses push on, check out that macro at 42 of basically 42). What is clear is that they have few equals when we look at cameras that are more similar, roughly close MP and APS-C. I'm almost certain that if DXO had retested on the NX1 these would be resolution leaders for sensors smaller than FF due to the AA removal and higher MP (still no, other APS-C with 28).

Overall, this makes sense to me. A lot of the scaling comparison is easier sticking to one size of sensor, because then the pixel sizes basically scale with MP. But when going from say FF to APS-C, we can have both more pixels and bigger pixels, and this is what gives larger formats their edge here (there's more to it, but it's basically this). Actually, the 5DSR is kind of a good example for scaling APS-C to FF, because the pixel pitch is quite close, 4.14 microns on the 5DSR, and also about 4.1 (number I found didn't have more precision) for the 7DII. We find that lenses scale fairly well here, e.g. https://www.dxomark.com/Lenses/Tamron/Tamron-SP-70-200mm-F28-Di-VC-USD-Canon-mounted-on-Canon-EOS-7D-Mark-II__977 goes from 36 MP on the 5DSR to 13 MP on the 7DII.  Lenses like that bode well for NX lenses (of course they're APS-C only, but my point is that they are indeed very sharp and we can expect the NX1 results to be good though they'll probably never be tested).

Disclaimer, I'm aware that the sorting on the DXO site may have led me to miss some better combos, since when choosing by mount they give the highest MP sensor of the mount, but I think it was only a major problem with the 5DS/5DSR.

But I'm preaching to the choir, you guys know NX lenses are awesome already.  I was just surprised at just how well they stacked up, since most systems have some sharpness monsters lurking.

You can't assume perfect scaling of a given lens sharpness to higher resolution sensor.

But I do agree that the NX 30mm (and probably the 85mm) is probably among the sharpest cropped lens out there.

DXO measures 14 PMP (perceptive mega pixels) for the NX 30mm which is extremely good on NX20's anti-aliasing filtered 20MP sensor, so we might reasonably suspect that it was a sensor limited measurement, not lens limited. But how high it will go up with additional sensor pixel density is anyone's guess. Given how high it was on AA-filtered 20MP sensor and my image samples on NX1, I'm guessing at least 18 PMP or higher on NX1/NX500's 28MP sensor which may be the sharpest for any crop system.

In comparison, Sony E 35mm f1.8 measures only 11 PMP on A6000's 24MP sensor (w/ weak AA filter). 11 PMP out of 24MP sensor is pretty low and one can reasonably conclude that this is most likely a lens limited resolution, not sensor limited. Thus, you most likely will see little or no additional resolution by pairing with a higher resolution sensor.

My research along this line was actually how I got myself into the NX system.

85 1.4 is not that perfectly sharp lens, it's good wide open, better at F4, but not as 60 macro lens. 30mm is very sharp indeed, maybe near the macro.

The whole long first post is comparing apples with oranges through DxO

noncho wrote:

85 1.4 is not that perfectly sharp lens, it's good wide open, better at F4, but not as 60 macro lens. 30mm is very sharp indeed, maybe near the macro.

Copy to copy variations perhaps, considering their result was lower with the 60mm, and that is apples to apples.

The whole long first post is comparing apples with oranges through DxO

They're both fruit and I know which one I like better   I'm aware it is a very rough sketch and doesn't say anything for certain.

-- hide signature --

www.NonchoILiev.com

MikeDPR wrote:

You can't assume perfect scaling of a given lens sharpness to higher resolution sensor.

I know, but it was for the sake of making some tentative generalizations/guesstimate.   Nothing to be taken too seriously.

But I do agree that the NX 30mm (and probably the 85mm) is probably among the sharpest cropped lens out there.

DXO measures 14 PMP (perceptive mega pixels) for the NX 30mm which is extremely good on NX20's anti-aliasing filtered 20MP sensor, so we might reasonably suspect that it was a sensor limited measurement, not lens limited. But how high it will go up with additional sensor pixel density is anyone's guess. Given how high it was on AA-filtered 20MP sensor and my image samples on NX1, I'm guessing at least 18 PMP or higher on NX1/NX500's 28MP sensor which may be the sharpest for any crop system.

In comparison, Sony E 35mm f1.8 measures only 11 PMP on A6000's 24MP sensor (w/ weak AA filter). 11 PMP out of 24MP sensor is pretty low and one can reasonably conclude that this is most likely a lens limited resolution, not sensor limited. Thus, you most likely will see little or no additional resolution by pairing with a higher resolution sensor.

My research along this line was actually how I got myself into the NX system.

DxoMark some time w. strange results about Sensors S/N & Color

sensor - How relevant are the DxOMark scores and tests? - Photography Stack ExchangeI

Do You Believe in DxOMark? | byThom | Thom Hogan

also look here:

LensTip.com - lens review, lenses reviews, lens specification - LensTip.com

http://www.photozone.de/samsungnx

In german

http://www.traumflieger.de/reports/Objektiv-Tests/Samsung-NX:::2_124.html

I'm well aware of what is known about the scores and measurements.  This post was about painting a tentative bigger picture from a single data source.  I was not looking at DXO scores by the way, but at the PMP measurement.   It's just my fun speculation, to be taken with a heaping handful of salt.

And aware of those other review sites ^_^.  They have reviews on items many others don't and were instrumental in my recent purchase of a Sigma 180mm f/2.8 macro a few days ago (still waiting for B&H to ship it).

Facepalm. ... it seems I double posted, I thought the first one failed and I was wondering where techno's post went to and if he was banned, lol.

Never trust a statistic, exept you faked it yourself

Doogs can make eegs for shure!

10 sausages on 10 eggs on a table

Evertime the dog was near the table there are more eggs than sausages

This is an Alternative fact