The K-S1 and the 18-135 lens

Cameras with one dial are compromised and annoying.

audiobomber wrote:

Cameras with one dial are compromised and annoying.

Dan,

Well, of course, I can't disagree precisely, but I think I can understand the position of your fellow Ontarian (if that's what you call each other), Peter, who loves the K-S1.  He has taken pains to adapt himself to that little camera and its having only one dial doesn't bother him.  He only uses the dial on special occasions and finds it useful rather annoying.

I have made an image of him in my mind, in which he's about 5'6" with small hands that are able to manage the dial without turning the switch from AF to MF.  (I'm usually wrong about such imaginings.  He's probably 6'5" and with huge hands.)  He's nevertheless inspired me to work harder at learning to use the K-S1 without feeling annoyance.   I rather doubt that's going to happen all the way, and am probably going to be much happier with the K-S2; nevertheless I can understand how someone else could use the K-S1 without annoyance and without believing it to be compromised.

Meanwhile I expect to have it in the same category as my EPN-2, to use if I wrench a knee or a shoulder and intend to limp off on a hike anyway.  The last time that happened I wore a knee sleeve and with a hiking stick to keep me steady snapped photos one handed with my little EPN-2.  Sounds pathetic, but in no time I was back to normal and using the K-3 again.

Lawrence

Historicity wrote:

I am 82 years old and so apt to twist something from time to time. On the other hand I am one of those fellows who has lifted weights all his life and is in good physical condition. And on the other other hand as a retired high-priced engineer from Boeing I have a very good pension and no money worries; so, even though I did feel a twinge of guilt when I read your note, I'm still looking forward to playing with the K-S2 when I get it. Mea culpa.

Then I would recommend buying a K-1 rather than a K-S2 (if your need is WiFi and articulated screen), or another K-3 (if your need is a backup camera).

The K-S2 is certainly a fine camera, but its button layout is not the same as the K-3, its AF and light metering are the same as the K-5 II, its RAW have only 12-bit depth, and it does not use the same type of batteries as the K-7, K-5, K-3 and K-1 series.

The K-1 does not have the same button layout as the K-3 either, but is it closer, and it has many useful ergonomic tricks (third wheel, lighting of mount and buttons, ...). Its main drawbacks compared to the K-S2 are its weight and its price, which don't seem to be a concern.

Ptitboul wrote:

Historicity wrote:

I am 82 years old and so apt to twist something from time to time. On the other hand I am one of those fellows who has lifted weights all his life and is in good physical condition. And on the other other hand as a retired high-priced engineer from Boeing I have a very good pension and no money worries; so, even though I did feel a twinge of guilt when I read your note, I'm still looking forward to playing with the K-S2 when I get it. Mea culpa.

Then I would recommend buying a K-1 rather than a K-S2 (if your need is WiFi and articulated screen), or another K-3 (if your need is a backup camera).

The K-S2 is certainly a fine camera, but its button layout is not the same as the K-3, its AF and light metering are the same as the K-5 II, its RAW have only 12-bit depth, and it does not use the same type of batteries as the K-7, K-5, K-3 and K-1 series.

The K-1 does not have the same button layout as the K-3 either, but is it closer, and it has many useful ergonomic tricks (third wheel, lighting of mount and buttons, ...). Its main drawbacks compared to the K-S2 are its weight and its price, which don't seem to be a concern.

I've already purchased the K-S2; so I'm not in the phase where I am considering either this one or that.  I purchased the K-S1 initially as a possible replacement for my EPN2 when I want to go light.  While the K-S1 is a slight improvement it does not let me shoot quite the way I am used to with the K3 and so I wouldn't be inclined to just grab it and a lens and go.  I'm hoping the K-S2 will be more useful in that regard.

As to the K-1, I already have two systems and their lenses, the Pentax APSC and the Olympus 4/3 DSLR.  I gave some thought to the K-1 when it was introduced but decided that if I eventually bought into a third system it would probably be the Olympus Mirrorless. From the standpoint of physics it strikes me that the likelihood of breakthrough performance is more likely at the small-end rather than the large.   I don't count my little PEN inasmuch as I never went beyond the kit lenses with that.  (From what I've read the EM1 Mark ii while better than its predecessors still doesn't surpass the K-3, D7200 etc).  When considering a camera to take on hikes it isn't just the weight (my Olympus E-5 weighs 935 grams which is not that far from the 1010 grams of the K-1), but it is also the cumbersomeness of the gear.  I carry a knapsack with perhaps 20 pounds of gear plus a few things attached to my belt, plus a hiking stick.  After an hour or so I stop to take a drink of water and give some to the dogs so I typically put my camera in a bag if the camera/lens setup plus hood isn't too awkward for me to put it in my bag one handed, but if it is I set my hat on the ground and put the camera in that.  I've taken the K3 plus the 60-250 lens on hikes and much prefer the convenience of the 16-85 lens (or primes) for day in and day out hiking.

As to the K-S2 using 12-bit depth raw, that is what the Olympus E5 used as well and the shots from the E5 were, many of them, noisier than shots from the K5 etc using decent lenses in both cases and as looked at in Lightroom.  I used to spend time with a noise reducer when editing Olympus shots.   In looking at test shots from the K-S1 I didn't see any noise.  (I was using Lightroom 6 as looked at on a good 27-inch monitor).  The K-3 with its 14-bit depth is still my favorite camera, but Pentax has done something interesting with the K-S1 and K-S2 such that I am very pleased with what I see when editing.

Lawrence

flektogon wrote:

Historicity wrote:

audiobomber wrote:

Cameras with one dial are compromised and annoying.

Dan,

Well, of course, I can't disagree precisely, but I think I can understand the position of your fellow Ontarian (if that's what you call each other), Peter, who loves the K-S1. He has taken pains to adapt himself to that little camera and its having only one dial doesn't bother him. He only uses the dial on special occasions and finds it useful rather annoying.

I have made an image of him in my mind, in which he's about 5'6" with small hands that are able to manage the dial without turning the switch from AF to MF. (I'm usually wrong about such imaginings. He's probably 6'5" and with huge hands.) He's nevertheless inspired me to work harder at learning to use the K-S1 without feeling annoyance. I rather doubt that's going to happen all the way, and am probably going to be much happier with the K-S2; nevertheless I can understand how someone else could use the K-S1 without annoyance and without believing it to be compromised.

Meanwhile I expect to have it in the same category as my EPN-2, to use if I wrench a knee or a shoulder and intend to limp off on a hike anyway. The last time that happened I wore a knee sleeve and with a hiking stick to keep me steady snapped photos one handed with my little EPN-2. Sounds pathetic, but in no time I was back to normal and using the K-3 again.

Lawrence

Lawrence,

I am exactly in the middle of your imagination (6", medium size hands ) and yes, I make the exposure adjustments very rarely. Why? Because Pentax is a very smart camera, it can set the exposure much more precisely than me, even with my 55 year experience in the photography. One wheel or two, who cares, if I do not need them. What bothers me more, is the AF. I am not complaining about its the speed at all. Just the camera (and I have the same experience with the other brands) can't select the most righteous AF point every time. On the K-x I use only the central AF point, as that camera even doesn't show you where it focuses. On the K-S1 I tried to use all (11) AF points, but the focus "failure" rate was too high. Currently I am using just 5 points, what I consider a compromise (11 vs. a single, central point). But again, I have absolutely no problems with the exposure.

So, I wish you (all) happy new year a many, many (properly exposed and sharp) pictures .

Regards,

Peter

Peter,

Okay, if you got into photography at age 10 that would make you 65 right now.  In my case I can remember being interested in photography quite young perhaps because of a grandfather who earned a living developing film for others.  He died of TB in 1945.  I inherited his film developing equipment; so that makes me 82 as I said. 

As to focal points, I'm not very sophisticated.  I use  single point figuring everything else at that distance will be in focus.  I've played with multiple focus points in the past but got disgusted with them.   Of course if I wanted to focus on a dog behind some bushes and my focal point insisted on focusing on the bushes instead of the dog behind them.  I could switch to MF and find the dog behind the bushes.  In fact if I was using a K-S1 it would be very easy to do.

To change the subject let's assume that we are both interested in photography as art -- not all the time of course but occasionally we will see something that in older days would have inspired a painter to set up his easel.  You see it and with your camera in P let your K-S1 make all the choices.

I come across the same scene, and because it's a bright day set the aperture to 9, the ISO to 200 and move the shutter speed dial to optimum exposure only if it gives me a fast enough shutter speed for the scene.  Or I if I am filming the dogs playing with each other I might be afraid to leave the ISO at 200 and change it to 400 or 800.  If I'm not too far off according to the light meter I can fix the brightness or darkness later on in Lightroom.

You check your results later in Silkypix and say, "wonderful."  I check my results later in Lightroom and say the same thing.  Considered in this manner (which I had not hitherto done before) I would conclude that the most important ingredient is "the artists eye."  We both see the same thing and try to capture it as is.  Assuming that neither of us is interested in enhancing nature, you trust your camera to give you "as is."  In my case I have had some bad experiences so I prefer to make the decision about what "as is" is.  However I have had some good experiences doing exactly what you are doing but with a 16mp Olympus EPN-2 -- sort of.  The EPN-2 would make the right decision on such a day as I describe above, but if it is a bit dark or things are moving too quickly it won't.  Of course I could override something as you do, but my norm is the K3 (or cameras like it) where I set everything, and the controls on the EPN-2 are too small and fiddly for me to want to mess with.  I suspect being 5' 10" and having medium sized hands that I could get used to overriding P when necessary, but at present I find the controls of that camera a bit fiddly as well.

One more thing, speaking of "as is."  I left all the settings as is (the default) on my outing with the K-S1.  Later in Lightroom I mentioned something along the lines of saying that my most common fix was to reduce the highlights and whites.  In checking the settings the other day I noticed that one default was "bright."  I changed that setting to "normal."

Lawrence

flektogon wrote:

Pentax is a very smart camera, it can set the exposure much more precisely than me, even with my 55 year experience in the photography. One wheel or two, who cares, if I do not need them.

My default mode for stills is Hyper Program. I can shift from P-mode to Av, to Tv with the front and rear dials, and back to P with the Green Button. I use the dials regularly in low light. For example, I took a bazillion images in dimly lit Italian cathedrals last spring, using my K-3 and Sigma 17-50mm f2.8. Camera settings in P mode were extravagant with shutter speeds and kept the aperture wide open. I wanted to lower the ISO, and I wanted to stop the lens down for improved sharpness and more DOF. The camera has SR and I have steady hands, so I decreased the shutter speeds to well below what P mode was giving me.

For action, by default is TAv mode. For birds in flight, shutter speed is set to 1/1000s to freeze motion, with the optimum aperture setting for maximum sharpness (f5.6 on the DA*300, f8 with a TC}. As conditions change, I make adjustments from there. If I let the camera decide, it will not optimize aperture, shutter speed and ISO for what I'm trying to do.

Normally I let the camera control exposure, but there are times when I know it will fail, e.g. dark subject against a brightly lit sky, in which case I intervene with EV compensation. My default BIF setting is +.5EV, and I fine tune in post.

On the K-S1 I tried to use all (11) AF points, but the focus "failure" rate was too high. Currently I am using just 5 points, what I consider a compromise (11 vs. a single, central point). But again, I have absolutely no problems with the exposure.

The only time I use Auto AF is when I hand the camera over to someone to take a photo and I set it to Green Mode. I don't trust the camera to know what I want in focus. I use Center Point and Recompose for general photography. I use Expanded Area AF with the center point active for action shooting (Expanded Area AF is only available on cameras from the K-5 II onwards).

So, I wish you (all) happy new year a many, many (properly exposed and sharp) pictures .

Same to you Peter.

flektogon wrote:

Dan,

I have to admit that I am rather an "old fashion" photographer, i.e. I am using my digital cameras as I used to use my film cameras. The only exemption is the auto-focus and auto-exposure, which I appreciate to have. There are tens if not hundreds customized settings on a modern digital camera (like my K-S1), but I am avoiding to modify them as much as possible. Why? Because I trust the camera designers that they used (as the default) the most reasonable and optimal setting of each function/parameter. I am a retired firmware designer myself, so I know how I struggled with every, even the least important parameter, to be set the best possible way. I do not have any reason not to trust the Pentax (Japanese) designers that they didn't do their best to satisfy customers.

I keep everything on my camera in the default position. The exception is the 11-point AF setting, which I changed to 5. On my older K-x, which doesn't indicate where the camera focuses, I had to select the central point obviously. Regarding the exposure control, the P mode yields me the best results. Occasionally I select the Av or Tv mode, when for certain reasons I need to keep a fixed aperture or shutter speed.

There is another mode, TAv, which is not described in the manual at all. Do you know how it works and how it could be useful? Thanks in advance for your reply.

Regards,

Peter

Peter,

"The Pentax-unique TAv (shutter and aperture priority) and Sv (sensitivity priority) exposure modes are also available. TAv is essentially M mode with auto ISO, while Sv is essentially P mode with manual ISO. Having a separate modes for the purpose of controlling the ISO is convenient, however, as they carry the added convenience of exposure compensation, and the ability to quickly switch between different sensitivity presets."

Lawrence

flektogon wrote:

Historicity wrote:

flektogon wrote:

Dan,

I have to admit that I am rather an "old fashion" photographer, i.e. I am using my digital cameras as I used to use my film cameras. The only exemption is the auto-focus and auto-exposure, which I appreciate to have. There are tens if not hundreds customized settings on a modern digital camera (like my K-S1), but I am avoiding to modify them as much as possible. Why? Because I trust the camera designers that they used (as the default) the most reasonable and optimal setting of each function/parameter. I am a retired firmware designer myself, so I know how I struggled with every, even the least important parameter, to be set the best possible way. I do not have any reason not to trust the Pentax (Japanese) designers that they didn't do their best to satisfy customers.

I keep everything on my camera in the default position. The exception is the 11-point AF setting, which I changed to 5. On my older K-x, which doesn't indicate where the camera focuses, I had to select the central point obviously. Regarding the exposure control, the P mode yields me the best results. Occasionally I select the Av or Tv mode, when for certain reasons I need to keep a fixed aperture or shutter speed.

There is another mode, TAv, which is not described in the manual at all. Do you know how it works and how it could be useful? Thanks in advance for your reply.

Regards,

Peter

Peter,

"The Pentax-unique TAv (shutter and aperture priority) and Sv (sensitivity priority) exposure modes are also available. TAv is essentially M mode with auto ISO, while Sv is essentially P mode with manual ISO. Having a separate modes for the purpose of controlling the ISO is convenient, however, as they carry the added convenience of exposure compensation, and the ability to quickly switch between different sensitivity presets."

Lawrence

I see. So, for the TAv mode really two wheels would be desirable, one controlling the aperture and the other shutter speed. The Sv mode can basically work with just one wheel, which apparently controls the ISO. But then there is a difficulty to modify the aperture/shutter speed ratio if needed. Well, now I know why I prefer the P mode .

I didn't mean to preempt anything Dan might say.  I was curious myself and so found the quote from a Pentax discussion.  I then searched the Pentax manual and found the Tav and Sv on page 40 under exposure modes, but the table while correct is confusing.  After playing with it and seeing how it works in action, the Tav setting does look interesting to me.  I could set the shutter speed fast enough to catch any action and just control the aperture in order to get a solid dot. Maybe in that mode I wouldn't be changing the AF switch to MF quite so much.

The Sv setting sounds a bit spooky to me.  After years of mistrusting high ISO the K-S1 (as well as the K-S2) would have me adjust the ISO upwards until I got the shutter speed I wanted.  In playing with it just now I readily had the ISO up to 3200 in a darkish room looking at a darkish sky.  I suspect I'd be getting noise from the K-S1 at ISO 3200.

Lawrence

Lawrencce

Lawrence

The TAv mode is very convenient for shooting action: you select shutter speed and aperture, and set Auto-ISO to 100-6400 or even 12800.

This way you can select the depth of field and the shutter speed, whether you want a high shutter speed to freeze everything, or to get a shallow depth of field in bright lighting, or a slower shutter speed to get a blurred background while panning the camera to track the subject. The camera will deal with the exposure, taking into account the EV compensation you have selected, and you can concentrate on framing.

Modern APS-C sensors give quite usable pictures up to ISO 3200-6400 depending the light; and, above, a noisy shot is better than a blurred one.

Sv is for when you want to choose the ISO setting and let the camera choose aperture and shutter speed, like in the film era when shooting in P mode (you could not change the ISO without changing the film). I almost never use it.

On cameras with two control dials, my favorite is P mode with hyperprogram: you can just point and shoot, or change the aperture with the back dial, and the camera switches automatically to Av mode or change the shutter speed with the front dial, and the camera switches to Tv mode. By pressing the green button, the camera switches back to P mode.