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Would you pay more for 1080p in the M5 that is at least as good as in 80D?

Started Dec 7, 2016 | Polls
PhotoDiod Regular Member • Posts: 342
Would you pay more for 1080p in the M5 that is at least as good as in 80D?
1

A few folks here have noticed that the issue with M5's lack of video capabilities is not solely (or perhaps not at all) about its lack of 4k. So, I was wondering if the majority of M5 target market simply doesn't care for video at all. Below, I have re-worked Jonathan Brady's poll (thank you, Jonathan) to ponder that question. Please feel free to elaborate below.

POLL
I wouldn't pay more for 80D-level video in M5. I don't care for video.
49.0% 24  votes
I wouldn't pay more just for 80D-level video in M5. I care for video but, in M5, it should have exceeded 80D specifications.
12.2% 6  votes
I wouldn't pay more because I feel it should be included for the asking price.
30.6% 15  votes
I would pay more for 80D-level video in M5.
8.2% 4  votes
  Show results
Canon EOS 80D
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Alan Sh Senior Member • Posts: 2,757
Re: Would you pay more for 1080p in the M5 that is at least as good as in 80D?
1

What is better about 80D video?

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OP PhotoDiod Regular Member • Posts: 342
Re: Would you pay more for 1080p in the M5 that is at least as good as in 80D?

Alan Sh wrote:

What is better about 80D video?

Bitrate, for one:

M5

1920 x 1080 @ 60p / 35 Mbps, MP4, H.264, AAC

1920 x 1080 @ 30p / 24 Mbps, MP4, H.264, AAC

1920 x 1080 @ 24p / 24 Mbps, MP4, H.264, AAC

80D

MOV: 1920 x 1080p / 29.97 fps (90 Mbps) / 23.98 fps (90 Mbps)

MP4: 1920 x 1080p / 59.94 fps (60 Mbps) / 29.97 fps (30 Mbps) / 23.98 fps (30 Mbps)

justmeMN Forum Pro • Posts: 10,705
Re: Would you pay more for 1080p in the M5 that is at least as good as in 80D?

PhotoDiod wrote:

Alan Sh wrote:

What is better about 80D video?

Bitrate, for one:

So, a higher bitrate means less compression, and therefore higher image quality? Do I have that right?

OP PhotoDiod Regular Member • Posts: 342
Re: Would you pay more for 1080p in the M5 that is at least as good as in 80D?
2

justmeMN wrote:

PhotoDiod wrote:

Alan Sh wrote:

What is better about 80D video?

Bitrate, for one:

So, a higher bitrate means less compression, and therefore higher image quality? Do I have that right?

Unless the newer compression algorithm is eons smarter, that is how I understand it, yes.

Alastair Norcross
Alastair Norcross Veteran Member • Posts: 9,874
Re: Would you pay more for 1080p in the M5 that is at least as good as in 80D?

PhotoDiod wrote:

justmeMN wrote:

PhotoDiod wrote:

Alan Sh wrote:

What is better about 80D video?

Bitrate, for one:

So, a higher bitrate means less compression, and therefore higher image quality? Do I have that right?

Unless the newer compression algorithm is eons smarter, that is how I understand it, yes.

Are there any side by side comparisons available on the web, so we can see the difference the different bitrates make to the quality of M5 video versus 80D video? Is it likely to be something we can actually see? I'm thinking of the different compression settings for JPEG stills on most cameras. If you take a shot at the highest quality JPEG setting (lowest compression setting) and another at the next highest quality setting, you won't be able to tell the difference between the shots. I'm talking about the same size shot, just different compression settings. As I understand it, the higher quality JPEG will stand up to editing a bit better, which is the reason to opt for it, as opposed to the higher compression setting (if you don't shoot RAW, of course, which is better than both). If it's similar for video, the different compression settings would only have a visible effect on the end product, if we did a lot of editing to the video. But perhaps I'm missing something.

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User5790131082 New Member • Posts: 4
Re: Would you pay more for 1080p in the M5 that is at least as good as in 80D?

Good quality 1080P is fine with me.

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OP PhotoDiod Regular Member • Posts: 342
Re: Would you pay more for 1080p in the M5 that is at least as good as in 80D?

Alastair Norcross wrote:

PhotoDiod wrote:

justmeMN wrote:

PhotoDiod wrote:

Alan Sh wrote:

What is better about 80D video?

Bitrate, for one:

So, a higher bitrate means less compression, and therefore higher image quality? Do I have that right?

Unless the newer compression algorithm is eons smarter, that is how I understand it, yes.

Are there any side by side comparisons available on the web, so we can see the difference the different bitrates make to the quality of M5 video versus 80D video? Is it likely to be something we can actually see? I'm thinking of the different compression settings for JPEG stills on most cameras. If you take a shot at the highest quality JPEG setting (lowest compression setting) and another at the next highest quality setting, you won't be able to tell the difference between the shots. I'm talking about the same size shot, just different compression settings. As I understand it, the higher quality JPEG will stand up to editing a bit better, which is the reason to opt for it, as opposed to the higher compression setting (if you don't shoot RAW, of course, which is better than both). If it's similar for video, the different compression settings would only have a visible effect on the end product, if we did a lot of editing to the video. But perhaps I'm missing something.

I have not come across any side-by-side comparisons yet. I would love to see some though. As far as the extent to which compression settings make a difference, it depends both on the amount of the compression and on the subject of the photo/video. The next highest quality setting might not result in visible difference in some subjects but can noticeably worsen the quality of complex scenes with lots of detail, contrast, color nuances, etc. That said, I am not sure that going from 90 mbps to 24 mbps is really only a one step down.

trungtran Senior Member • Posts: 1,747
Re: Would you pay more for 1080p in the M5 that is at least as good as in 80D?
3

If you need the 80D then just go buy the 80D.

This poll is just silly now.

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OP PhotoDiod Regular Member • Posts: 342
Re: Would you pay more for 1080p in the M5 that is at least as good as in 80D?

trungtran wrote:

If you need the 80D then just go buy the 80D.

This poll is just silly now.

Telling people where they need to go and what they need to do is a slippery slope--you might not enjoy the activity one might advise back. Like, learning reading comprehension, for example.

Vlasty Senior Member • Posts: 1,856
Re: Would you pay more for 1080p in the M5 that is at least as good as in 80D?

How about I wouldnt pay more but i do use video. I am very satisfied with video on the M5‥

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OP PhotoDiod Regular Member • Posts: 342
Re: Would you pay more for 1080p in the M5 that is at least as good as in 80D?

Vlasty wrote:

How about I wouldnt pay more but i do use video. I am very satisfied with video on the M5‥

That is definitely an option. Sorry, I hadn't fathomed it. Do you have any videos accessible online?

Vlasty Senior Member • Posts: 1,856
Re: Would you pay more for 1080p in the M5 that is at least as good as in 80D?
3

PhotoDiod wrote:

Vlasty wrote:

How about I wouldnt pay more but i do use video. I am very satisfied with video on the M5‥

That is definitely an option. Sorry, I hadn't fathomed it. Do you have any videos accessible online?

Nothing special but I have a few.

https://youtu.be/wv6s-3R6L0E

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Peter Kwok
Peter Kwok Senior Member • Posts: 2,635
Digic 7 vs 6

Perhaps the more advanced Digic 7 in the M5 can compress video better than the Digic 6 in the 80D, smaller files without sacrificing quality. Without good side-by-side comparison, we don't know whether it is bettor or worse.

But, since Canon did not copy the exact design of 80D, there must be a reason to spend efforts to redesign the compression algorithm. I hope not letting the tiny M5 to compete against the 80D is NOT a reason.

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trungtran Senior Member • Posts: 1,747
Re: Would you pay more for 1080p in the M5 that is at least as good as in 80D?
5

PhotoDiod wrote:

trungtran wrote:

If you need the 80D then just go buy the 80D.

This poll is just silly now.

Telling people where they need to go and what they need to do is a slippery slope--you might not enjoy the activity one might advise back. Like, learning reading comprehension, for example.

LOL, why don't we all just post polls on silly specifications that the M5 does not have and the 80d does.

Would you pay more if the m5 had weather sealing like the 80D?
Would you pay more if the m5 had the same shutter speed as the 80D?

The 4k poll already showed that the majority don't care about video.

What is it that you trying to achieve with this poll?

I can read perfectly fine, thank you.

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OP PhotoDiod Regular Member • Posts: 342
Re: Would you pay more for 1080p in the M5 that is at least as good as in 80D?
3

trungtran wrote:

PhotoDiod wrote:

trungtran wrote:

If you need the 80D then just go buy the 80D.

This poll is just silly now.

Telling people where they need to go and what they need to do is a slippery slope--you might not enjoy the activity one might advise back. Like, learning reading comprehension, for example.

LOL, why don't we all just post polls on silly specifications that the M5 does not have and the 80d does.

Would you pay more if the m5 had weather sealing like the 80D?
Would you pay more if the m5 had the same shutter speed as the 80D?

The 4k poll already showed that the majority don't care about video.

What is it that you trying to achieve with this poll?

I can read perfectly fine, thank you.

Sorry, you lost me. Are you trying to tell me and everybody who contributed to the poll what we can or cannot do? Or, you are trying to assert some kind of intellectual superiority?

OP PhotoDiod Regular Member • Posts: 342
Re: Would you pay more for 1080p in the M5 that is at least as good as in 80D?

Vlasty wrote:

PhotoDiod wrote:

Vlasty wrote:

How about I wouldnt pay more but i do use video. I am very satisfied with video on the M5‥

That is definitely an option. Sorry, I hadn't fathomed it. Do you have any videos accessible online?

Nothing special but I have a few.

https://youtu.be/wv6s-3R6L0E

Thank you for the link. I like the color of your footage and also overall mood of your test shots (artistic yet to the point). Is it just me or do you also find the detail in foliage "mush-like" though?

Vlasty Senior Member • Posts: 1,856
Re: Would you pay more for 1080p in the M5 that is at least as good as in 80D?

PhotoDiod wrote:

Vlasty wrote:

PhotoDiod wrote:

Vlasty wrote:

How about I wouldnt pay more but i do use video. I am very satisfied with video on the M5‥

That is definitely an option. Sorry, I hadn't fathomed it. Do you have any videos accessible online?

Nothing special but I have a few.

https://youtu.be/wv6s-3R6L0E

Thank you for the link. I like the color of your footage and also overall mood of your test shots (artistic yet to the point). Is it just me or do you also find the detail in foliage "mush-like" though?

Thanks.

I do on occasion notice the foliage can look a bit mushy but having used the efーs kit lens I feel the mushyness is more cntrolled on the M5 than 80D.The kit lenses are playing ia bigger part in the percivied rendering than the sensors or compression  in my opiniin.

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weixing New Member • Posts: 14
Re: Would you pay more for 1080p in the M5 that is at least as good as in 80D?
1

Hi,

The different is basically ALL-I and IPB. Canon EOS M5 video don't have ALL-I option.

Have a nice day.

G-D Contributing Member • Posts: 711
Re: Would you pay more for 1080p in the M5 that is at least as good as in 80D?
1

PhotoDiod wrote:

justmeMN wrote:

PhotoDiod wrote:

Alan Sh wrote:

What is better about 80D video?

Bitrate, for one:

So, a higher bitrate means less compression, and therefore higher image quality? Do I have that right?

Unless the newer compression algorithm is eons smarter, that is how I understand it, yes.

So, have you actually verified the "smartness" of the different compression algorithms and what the effect is on "video quality", as implemented by Canon in the M5 and 80D?

Does more compression automatically mean loss of quality, and if so, in which area exactly: details, dynamic range, colors, etc.? From what I read, H.264 is quite a leap in the compression world but it does require higher processing speed, like in Digic 7. Which 80D doesn't have...

Anyway, all seems a bit irrelevant if noone can tell them apart unless when comparing specs. IMO.

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