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Would you pay more for 4k in the M5? If so, how much?

Started Nov 28, 2016 | Polls
Jonathan Brady
Jonathan Brady Veteran Member • Posts: 6,725
Would you pay more for 4k in the M5? If so, how much?
3

Pretty simple question, and I'm including a huge variety of answers. But as always, feel free to post a written response in lieu of or in addition to your vote.

POLL
I wouldn't pay more and don't care that it's omitted
60.7% 74  votes
I wouldn't pay more but feel it should be included for the announced price
15.6% 19  votes
I wouldn't pay more and am not purchasing because it's been omitted
1.6% 2  votes
4k is a make or break feature for me so I'm not purchasing the M5, but if it were included, I'd pay up to an additional $100
0.8% 1  vote
It would be nice if the M5 had 4k and I'd pay up to an additional $100
6.6% 8  votes
4k is a make or break feature for me so I'm not purchasing the M5, but if it were included, I'd pay up to an additional $200
4.1% 5  votes
It would be nice if the M5 had 4k and I'd pay up to an additional $200
5.7% 7  votes
4k is a make or break feature for me so I'm not purchasing the M5, but if it were included, I'd pay up to an additional $300
0.8% 1  vote
It would be nice if the M5 had 4k and I'd pay up to an additional $300
0.8% 1  vote
4k is a make or break feature for me so I'm not purchasing the M5, but if it were included, I'd pay up to an additional $500
1.6% 2  votes
It would be nice if the M5 had 4k and I'd pay up to an additional $500
0.0% 0  votes
4k is a make or break feature for me so I'm not purchasing the M5, but if it were included, I'd pay up to an additional $750
0.0% 0  votes
It would be nice if the M5 had 4k and I'd pay up to an additional $750
0.8% 1  vote
4k is a make or break feature for me so I'm not purchasing the M5, but if it were included, I'd pay up to an additional $1000
0.0% 0  votes
It would be nice if the M5 had 4k and I'd pay up to an additional $1000
0.8% 1  vote
4k is a make or break feature for me so I'm not purchasing the M5, but if it were included, I'd pay more than an additional $1000
0.0% 0  votes
It would be nice if the M5 had 4k and I'd pay more than an additional $1000
0.0% 0  votes
I don't care about the M5. I'm just here to boast about the superiority of __________ (please respond below)
0.0% 0  votes
  Show results
fotophool Veteran Member • Posts: 4,340
Re: Would you pay more for 4k in the M5? If so, how much?
5

I can see this is beginning to become somewhat of an obsession with you.

So, just off hand, how much do you think each of the below features added to the final price of the new Panasonic G85?

16MP Four Thirds MOS sensor w/o optical low pass filter

  • 5-axis image stabilization with Dual I.S. 2
  • Splash/dust-proof body
  • Depth from Defocus AF
  • 2.36M-dot OLED EVF
  • 3-inch 1.04M-dot fully-articulating touchscreen LCD
  • 4K video / photo
  • Focus stacking and post focus

Again, just curious.

Still seems like Canon could have added a lot more to the M5 than they did.

fotophool

My Flickr Pics

1 MK
1 MK Regular Member • Posts: 350
Re: Would you pay more for 4k in the M5? If so, how much?

fotophool wrote:

I can see this is beginning to become somewhat of an obsession with you.

So, just off hand, how much do you think each of the below features added to the final price of the new Panasonic G85?

16MP Four Thirds MOS sensor w/o optical low pass filter

  • 5-axis image stabilization with Dual I.S. 2
  • Splash/dust-proof body
  • Depth from Defocus AF
  • 2.36M-dot OLED EVF
  • 3-inch 1.04M-dot fully-articulating touchscreen LCD
  • 4K video / photo
  • Focus stacking and post focus

Again, just curious.

Still seems like Canon could have added a lot more to the M5 than they did.

fotophool

My Flickr Pics

Isn't most of the money tied up in the sensor? Also, I keep hearing that DPAF is very expensive.

Smaller sensor + no DPAF = more budget for other features?

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Jonathan Brady
OP Jonathan Brady Veteran Member • Posts: 6,725
Re: Would you pay more for 4k in the M5? If so, how much?

1 MK wrote:

fotophool wrote:

I can see this is beginning to become somewhat of an obsession with you.

So, just off hand, how much do you think each of the below features added to the final price of the new Panasonic G85?

16MP Four Thirds MOS sensor w/o optical low pass filter

  • 5-axis image stabilization with Dual I.S. 2
  • Splash/dust-proof body
  • Depth from Defocus AF
  • 2.36M-dot OLED EVF
  • 3-inch 1.04M-dot fully-articulating touchscreen LCD
  • 4K video / photo
  • Focus stacking and post focus

Again, just curious.

Still seems like Canon could have added a lot more to the M5 than they did.

fotophool

My Flickr Pics

Isn't most of the money tied up in the sensor? Also, I keep hearing that DPAF is very expensive.

Smaller sensor + no DPAF = more budget for other features?

This. And also, profit margins vary from product to product within a company, and from one company to another. So does sales volume - which can impact the needed profit margin.

nnowak Veteran Member • Posts: 9,074
Re: Would you pay more for 4k in the M5? If so, how much?
1

1 MK wrote:

fotophool wrote:

I can see this is beginning to become somewhat of an obsession with you.

So, just off hand, how much do you think each of the below features added to the final price of the new Panasonic G85?

16MP Four Thirds MOS sensor w/o optical low pass filter

  • 5-axis image stabilization with Dual I.S. 2
  • Splash/dust-proof body
  • Depth from Defocus AF
  • 2.36M-dot OLED EVF
  • 3-inch 1.04M-dot fully-articulating touchscreen LCD
  • 4K video / photo
  • Focus stacking and post focus

Again, just curious.

Still seems like Canon could have added a lot more to the M5 than they did.

fotophool

My Flickr Pics

Isn't most of the money tied up in the sensor?

No, not even close.

Also, I keep hearing that DPAF is very expensive.

40d was 1100, 50d was 1300, 60d was 1100, 70d was 1200, and 80d was 1200 at launch.  Initial development costs were high for DPAF.  Unless Canon is losing money on every 80d and M5, production costs obviously are not.

Smaller sensor + no DPAF = more budget for other features?

The G85 is also less expensive even though sales numbers will be lower than the 80d or M5

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www.exploredesert.com - Photos taken with my M cameras
https://www.flickr.com/photos/125556024@N05/

nnowak Veteran Member • Posts: 9,074
Re: Would you pay more for 4k in the M5? If so, how much?
1

Jonathan Brady wrote:

1 MK wrote:

fotophool wrote:

I can see this is beginning to become somewhat of an obsession with you.

So, just off hand, how much do you think each of the below features added to the final price of the new Panasonic G85?

16MP Four Thirds MOS sensor w/o optical low pass filter

  • 5-axis image stabilization with Dual I.S. 2
  • Splash/dust-proof body
  • Depth from Defocus AF
  • 2.36M-dot OLED EVF
  • 3-inch 1.04M-dot fully-articulating touchscreen LCD
  • 4K video / photo
  • Focus stacking and post focus

Again, just curious.

Still seems like Canon could have added a lot more to the M5 than they did.

fotophool

My Flickr Pics

Isn't most of the money tied up in the sensor? Also, I keep hearing that DPAF is very expensive.

Smaller sensor + no DPAF = more budget for other features?

This. And also, profit margins vary from product to product within a company, and from one company to another. So does sales volume - which can impact the needed profit margin.

Who do you think has higher sales volume?  Canon will likely sell more 80d's than Panasonic's entire camera sales.  Yet Panasonic is able to develop a more fully featured and cheaper camera than the M5.

OzarkAggie Senior Member • Posts: 2,153
Re: Would you pay more for 4k in the M5? If so, how much?

I can do video on my phone and share it if that's what I want to do. But otherwise I'm not interested.

Hell, I'm not sure I'm interested in the M5 for that matter.
--
It's not the camera...

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trungtran Senior Member • Posts: 1,747
Re: Would you pay more for 4k in the M5? If so, how much?

Firstly the most I would pay for a crop camera is 1k.

Secondly I only upgrade based on features. The m5 does not have the feature set to compel me to upgrade. It is not going to add much more capability to my existing gear.

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Alan Sh Senior Member • Posts: 2,757
Re: Would you pay more for 4k in the M5? If so, how much?

I wouldn't pay more and I don't care about 4K. If I want a video, I'll use my phone.

Alan

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loitokitok Senior Member • Posts: 2,303
Re: Would you pay more for 4k in the M5? If so, how much?
10

Obviously it's a small base but if approx 70% (at the time I looked) say they wouldn't pay more and don't care that's it's omitted (and these are mostly gearheads who are more likely to care than anybody else) then doesn't that suggest that Canon have probably got it right in their decision not to include it?

crashpc Veteran Member • Posts: 7,235
Re: Would you pay more for 4k in the M5? If so, how much?
1

loitokitok wrote:

Obviously it's a small base but if approx 70% (at the time I looked) say they wouldn't pay more and don't care that's it's omitted (and these are mostly gearheads who are more likely to care than anybody else) then doesn't that suggest that Canon have probably got it right in their decision not to include it?

Absolutely!

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nnowak Veteran Member • Posts: 9,074
Re: Would you pay more for 4k in the M5? If so, how much?
4

loitokitok wrote:

Obviously it's a small base but if approx 70% (at the time I looked) say they wouldn't pay more and don't care that's it's omitted (and these are mostly gearheads who are more likely to care than anybody else) then doesn't that suggest that Canon have probably got it right in their decision not to include it?

Look at it the other way, 30% want the feature.  That is actually a pretty high percentage for what some consider a niche feature.

Try running a similar poll for ISO 25,600, or intervalometer, or GPS logging, or burst rates, or flash commander, or any other feature that is rarely used by the majority of users.

Jonathan Brady
OP Jonathan Brady Veteran Member • Posts: 6,725
Re: Would you pay more for 4k in the M5? If so, how much?
3

nnowak wrote:

loitokitok wrote:

Obviously it's a small base but if approx 70% (at the time I looked) say they wouldn't pay more and don't care that's it's omitted (and these are mostly gearheads who are more likely to care than anybody else) then doesn't that suggest that Canon have probably got it right in their decision not to include it?

Look at it the other way, 30% want the feature. That is actually a pretty high percentage for what some consider a niche feature.

Try running a similar poll for ISO 25,600, or intervalometer, or GPS logging, or burst rates, or flash commander, or any other feature that is rarely used by the majority of users.

But the important stat is that only 3 (6.8%) consider it a make or break feature and only 2 of them are willing to pay more for it. Both are willing to pay $500 more but the sales to those 2 wouldn't make up for the 30 who don't care that it was omitted and wouldn't pay more for it.

trungtran Senior Member • Posts: 1,747
Re: Would you pay more for 4k in the M5? If so, how much?

Alan Sh wrote:

I wouldn't pay more and I don't care about 4K. If I want a video, I'll use my phone.

Alan

That's the route i went with.

With the black friday deals i just upgraded my phone. My old phone released in 2014 had 4k. My new phone with a Sony sensor should have be an improvement with 4k.

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trungtran Senior Member • Posts: 1,747
Re: Would you pay more for 4k in the M5? If so, how much?

loitokitok wrote:

Obviously it's a small base but if approx 70% (at the time I looked) say they wouldn't pay more and don't care that's it's omitted (and these are mostly gearheads who are more likely to care than anybody else) then doesn't that suggest that Canon have probably got it right in their decision not to include it?

Canon probably got it right with this Forum as survey results indicate.

Interesting to see that there isn't much interest on Amazon for the M cameras.

Couldn't see any of the M cameras in the top 100, maybe  Amazon classifies the M under something else.

https://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-Electronics-Mirrorless-Cameras/zgbs/electronics/3109924011#1

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Stregone Regular Member • Posts: 322
Re: Would you pay more for 4k in the M5? If so, how much?
1

trungtran wrote:

loitokitok wrote:

Obviously it's a small base but if approx 70% (at the time I looked) say they wouldn't pay more and don't care that's it's omitted (and these are mostly gearheads who are more likely to care than anybody else) then doesn't that suggest that Canon have probably got it right in their decision not to include it?

Canon probably got it right with this Forum as survey results indicate.

Interesting to see that there isn't much interest on Amazon for the M cameras.

Couldn't see any of the M cameras in the top 100, maybe Amazon classifies the M under something else.

https://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-Electronics-Mirrorless-Cameras/zgbs/electronics/3109924011#1

It looks like they have it under dslr cameras. Amazon is terrible about categorizing things.

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DSPographer Senior Member • Posts: 2,483
4k video is *not* for videos
3

For me at least, I wouldn't use a 4K mode to make normal videos. I would use it as a very high frame rate stills mode, and as a way to make "live photos" (iPhone style moving photos). DPreview knows about these uses of a 4K video mode, so I think they will reduce their M5 rating because it lacks 4K: even though the intended user probably doesn't have the skills or post-production tools necessary to produce a true high-quality 4K movie.

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havanna60 Senior Member • Posts: 1,640
Sony is eating Canon's Cake
2

nnowak wrote:

loitokitok wrote:

Obviously it's a small base but if approx 70% (at the time I looked) say they wouldn't pay more and don't care that's

The voters are the EOS M community and this percentage is perfectly fine. since the users for whom the 4K is important/relevant are all in another groups for a long time.

it's omitted (and these are mostly gearheads who are more likely to care than anybody else) then doesn't that suggest that Canon have probably got it right in their decision not to include it?

Canon is very generous letting Sony eating Canon's cake.

Look at it the other way, 30% want the feature. That is actually a pretty high percentage for what some consider a niche feature.

Hi N.Nowak,

I am a follower of your comments for a long time. Here is my case to support your arguments; I am "sadly" still not an EOS M user, despite the M5 would be a nearly perfect camera for me, but no 4K at the end of 2016 for a $1000 camera, no way, I'd buy one. Likewise, I haven't upgraded my Sony A5100 to a more expensive Sony/Fujifilm camera, since they had no touch-screen, no GPS.

Try running a similar poll for ISO 25,600, or intervalometer, or GPS logging, or burst rates, or flash commander, or any other feature that is rarely used by the majority of users.

Actually, the market is so hard for cameras against smartphones, that all camera manufacturers should have included everything imaginable into these cameras to justify the $1000 - 1500 prices. Samsung was the only one on the right track, but they decided to quit from the sinking boat of cameras.

Honestly, paying the high prices for cameras like what we have today is insane. Features are terribly important to include. Check out the feature list of an iPhone 7 vs an camera like the EOS M5/A6500, the IPhone is far the best feature/performance/price.

I had bough a number of cameras (too many, I think) including a Nikon Df, which doesn't even have any video, and I've just realized recently that a $50 Canon AE-1P or EOS33 full-frame film camera along with an iPhone 7 is perfectly enough for any photography projects. Videography is much more challenging, but smartphones are really great for enthusiast video projects.

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whakapu Senior Member • Posts: 1,051
Re: Would you pay more for 4k in the M5? If so, how much?
5

Panasonic also sell 4K TVs. Sony sell 4K Tvs, monitors, high performance laptops etc. Canon don't. Panasony can afford to forego some profit on a $1000 camera body that helps them shift a $4000 TV, a $1000 monitor, a $3,000 computer, some storage media etc etc.  Canon can't. They have to turn a profit on the cameras and lenses and the results of this little survey tend to suggest they know their market.

joshxiv
joshxiv Forum Member • Posts: 80
Re: Would you pay more for 4k in the M5? If so, how much?
4

I'd pay $1200 body only for 4K on an EOS M5 with DPAF. It's 2016, it should be standard.

But throw in 1080p/120 fps with full DPAF (i.e. not a special mode) and close to 1080p quality 240fps (in a special mode) and cooling fans like those on the Canon XC10 and I'd gladly pay $2K for the body, even considering the current M lens lineup and having no plans on using EF lenses.

But that's right now, in 2016. For the EOS M6? Depends how much Sony and others would have caught up to DPAF in video by then.

On the flip-side, if any of the GX85 (not even G85), a6500, or X-T2 had Canon DPAF performance for video and 1080p/120 with touchscreen, I'd pay $2000 body only for ANY of those. If the Oly EM1 Mk ii which already has an SRP of $2K (which I think is worth it for IBIS in video alone) had Canon level DPAF in 4K plus 1080p/120, I'd even pay $2500 for that. Maybe more. Not having to carry around a gimbal is worth a lot. 😄

Basically, good quality 4K + good quality 1080p/120 + Olympus-level IBIS + touch to focus and Canon-level DPAF = take my money! 😁

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