Gopro Hero 5 vs Sony FDR-X3000 (winner)

Started Nov 4, 2016 | Discussions
Fan1983 New Member • Posts: 8
Gopro Hero 5 vs Sony FDR-X3000 (winner)
4

After watching countless video footages and reviews, I still couldn't decide which one is to get, so I bought both of them. Here are the pros and cons list:

Gopro Hero 5

Pros:

1. Very solid construction

2. Touch screen

3. Good menu system, very easy to change setting

4. Waterproof without a housing

5. Better lens flare control

6. Able to capture Raw still image

7. FLAT color mode provides higher dynamic range

8. The voice control is surprisingly useful, now you don't need a remote control

9. I like the shape and overall design of Gopro

Cons:

1. No optical image stabilization and electronic stabilization is not very useful, and it doesn't work in 4K

2. Video looks soft with less detail compare to sony

3. Horrible low light performance, with a lot of compression artifacts

4. Related to 3, gopro only provides 60mb/s bit rate

FDR-X3000

Pros:

1. Video quality (more details than gopro)

2. Better low light performance

3. Effective BOSS image stabilization in 4K(it is certainly not as good as 3 axis gimbal, but you could actually got a smooth video even if you are walking)

Cons:

1. No screen, you could have a separate monitor but it cost $150

2. No touch screen so changing setting is not so easy (but the menu system does improved compared with last generation)

3. Not waterproof (the camera itself is splash proof, all caps have rubber o-ring)

4. Doesn't feel as solid as gopro

5. Cannot capture Raw image

6. No FLAT color mode like gopro, it has a neutral mode, but it doesn't provide much boost in dynamic range.

7. The vivid color mode is very contrasty, and highlight area tend to overexpose

8. Lens flare is not as well controlled as gopro

9. Although sony's audio quality is better, but with underwater housing, there is no audio quality to talk about.

Conclusion:

I know, Gopro has a longer Pros list, but in term of final result (video quality), sony wins in almost every major way. I really want to see a product with gopro body and sony CMOS sensor and BOSS image stabilization. I think I will return my gopro Hero 5.

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Rotaryknight Junior Member • Posts: 26
Re: Gopro Hero 5 vs Sony FDR-X3000 (winner)

I'm surprised the GoPro 5 has worst low light quality than the Sony considering it has a 1/2.3" sensor compared to the x3000 1/2.5". Maybe the image processor is lacking. I was watching Micbergsma comparison video of the hero 4 black and the hero 5 black and the hero 4 black is definitely much better at night showing some light where the hero 5 was just dark.

Markr041 Veteran Member • Posts: 6,562
Re: Gopro Hero 5 vs Sony FDR-X3000 (winner)
1

Rotaryknight wrote:

I'm surprised the GoPro 5 has worst low light quality than the Sony considering it has a 1/2.3" sensor compared to the x3000 1/2.5". Maybe the image processor is lacking. I was watching Micbergsma comparison video of the hero 4 black and the hero 5 black and the hero 4 black is definitely much better at night showing some light where the hero 5 was just dark.

It is not a surprise if you dig deeper: First, the X3000 sensor is 16:9, the exact dimension of video. The GoPro sensor is 4:3, so some of the of the sensor is irrelevant to (16:9) video. Second, and most importantly, the X3000 has much fewer pixels, just enough for 4K, than the GoPro. The size of the pixels on the X3000 sensor is thus bigger than that for the GoPro, and bigger pixels means more ability to grab light. The sensor of the X3000 is thus optimized for 4K video, including in low light; the GoPro's is not. The GoPro may produce better (4:3) stills.

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petebuster
petebuster Contributing Member • Posts: 855
Re: Gopro Hero 5 vs Sony FDR-X3000 (winner)

It still won't out do go pro sales, it's lack of live view and Imo pretty crap form factor and price will see to that.

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OP Fan1983 New Member • Posts: 8
Re: Gopro Hero 5 vs Sony FDR-X3000 (winner)

petebuster wrote:

It still won't out do go pro sales, it's lack of live view and Imo pretty crap form factor and price will see to that.

I agree, local bestbuy in my place stop carrying sony action cam, and sony action cam accessories are under discount. Sony just doesn't know how to put their leading technologies into an appealing package.

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Markr041 Veteran Member • Posts: 6,562
Re: Gopro Hero 5 vs Sony FDR-X3000 (winner)
1

Fan1983 wrote:

petebuster wrote:

It still won't out do go pro sales, it's lack of live view and Imo pretty crap form factor and price will see to that.

I agree, local bestbuy in my place stop carrying sony action cam, and sony action cam accessories are under discount. Sony just doesn't know how to put their leading technologies into an appealing package.

No, BestBuy carries the X3000 and it is on display in all three Best Buys near me. The discounted accessories are almost exclusively those that fit only the older models or are superseded by new versions. I am not going to argue whether Sony's marketing strategy is ideal, I only know about products and facts.

With respect to actual products GoPro now is now almost only PR and marketing. Its latest GoPro is bested by Chinese knockoffs, and has zero innovation. Its drone is bested in every dimension (literally) by the latest DJI offering. And its quality control is abysmal, most recently evidenced by its recall of all its drones - all of them.  The stock market price is salient evidence that few expect the company to be profitable, and many analysts think that GoPro will be out of business within two years or less.

But lets try to stick to what we all know and care about here - the cameras.

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OP Fan1983 New Member • Posts: 8
Re: Gopro Hero 5 vs Sony FDR-X3000 (winner)

Markr041 wrote:

Fan1983 wrote:

petebuster wrote:

It still won't out do go pro sales, it's lack of live view and Imo pretty crap form factor and price will see to that.

I agree, local bestbuy in my place stop carrying sony action cam, and sony action cam accessories are under discount. Sony just doesn't know how to put their leading technologies into an appealing package.

No, BestBuy carries the X3000 and it is on display in all three Best Buys near me. The discounted accessories are almost exclusively those that fit only the older models or are superseded by new versions. I am not going to argue whether Sony's marketing strategy is ideal, I only know about products and facts.

With respect to actual products GoPro now is now almost only PR and marketing. Its latest GoPro is bested by Chinese knockoffs, and has zero innovation. Its drone is bested in every dimension (literally) by the latest DJI offering. And its quality control is abysmal, most recently evidenced by its recall of all its drones - all of them. The stock market price is salient evidence that few expect the company to be profitable, and many analysts think that GoPro will be out of business within two years or less.

But lets try to stick to what we all know and care about here - the cameras.

Latest news about gopro: they are recalling their drones and their stock price went down 30% since last month.

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petebuster
petebuster Contributing Member • Posts: 855
Re: Gopro Hero 5 vs Sony FDR-X3000 (winner)

I don't think gopro are doing great but Sony certainly won't overtake take them with their silly designed x3000 and boss that most action cameras users don't need.

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Markr041 Veteran Member • Posts: 6,562
Re: Gopro Hero 5 vs Sony FDR-X3000 (winner)

petebuster wrote:

I don't think gopro are doing great but Sony certainly won't overtake take them with their silly designed x3000 and boss that most action cameras users don't need.

GoPro is going to go out of business, as predicted by many. Then everyone will "overtake" them. The market works - when a company stops innovating, it fails no matter what the hype, and no matter the existence of consumers who evidently know little about the kinds of products they sell and just rely on brand recognition.

Btw, why do you keep saying the same juvenile thing over and over ("silly" design, really?, stabilization is not needed, really?).

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petebuster
petebuster Contributing Member • Posts: 855
Re: Gopro Hero 5 vs Sony FDR-X3000 (winner)

Markr041 wrote:

petebuster wrote:

I don't think gopro are doing great but Sony certainly won't overtake take them with their silly designed x3000 and boss that most action cameras users don't need.

GoPro is going to go out of business, as predicted by many. Then everyone will "overtake" them. The market works - when a company stops innovating, it fails no matter what the hype, and no matter the existence of consumers who evidently know little about the kinds of products they sell and just rely on brand recognition.

Btw, why do you keep saying the same juvenile thing over and over ("silly" design, really?, stabilization is not needed, really?).

Just because your obsessed with boss doesn't mean everyone is, if they were there wouldn't be so many action cameras on the market, get in the real world will you. gopro going out business? your expert opinion? we'll see.

As I've said many times which you still can't comprehend, people don't buy any camera on one function, you might but then not  everyone is obsessed with one function

 petebuster's gear list:petebuster's gear list
Nikon Coolpix P900 Pentax K-5 IIs Tamron SP AF 90mm F/2.8 Di Macro Pentax smc DA 50mm F1.8 HD Pentax DA 55-300mm F4.0-5.8 ED WR
Markr041 Veteran Member • Posts: 6,562
Re: Gopro Hero 5 vs Sony FDR-X3000 (winner)

petebuster wrote:

Markr041 wrote:

petebuster wrote:

I don't think gopro are doing great but Sony certainly won't overtake take them with their silly designed x3000 and boss that most action cameras users don't need.

GoPro is going to go out of business, as predicted by many. Then everyone will "overtake" them. The market works - when a company stops innovating, it fails no matter what the hype, and no matter the existence of consumers who evidently know little about the kinds of products they sell and just rely on brand recognition.

Btw, why do you keep saying the same juvenile thing over and over ("silly" design, really?, stabilization is not needed, really?).

Just because your obsessed with boss doesn't mean everyone is, if they were there wouldn't be so many action cameras on the market, get in the real world will you. gopro going out business? your expert opinion? we'll see.

As I've said many times which you still can't comprehend, people don't buy any camera on one function, you might but then not everyone is obsessed with one function

You said "most" people dont need stabilization, yet GoPro added (digital) stabilization in their latest cameras because they understand how useful it is. Unfortunately, the implementation is inferior in every way to that in the X3000.

Almost every modern camera from all manufacturers, including cell phone cameras, includes stabilization in the lens or in the body that is non-digital. Unless the video is shot from a tripod, it is essential or at least very useful - whether handheld or mounted on anything that moves.

You evidently don't shoot enough video to understand the importance, but GoPro does as well as all camera and cell phone manufacturers. Shoot some video and learn why stabilization is important. It isn't always needed, of course. But neither is any particular feature. Just like you do not need the superior performance in low light of the X3000, but sometimes it is essential.  Not all features are of equal importance - "voice command" is hardly something most people would need. But if you do, the GoPro is your choice.

 Markr041's gear list:Markr041's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DMC-FZ200 Panasonic LX100 Sony RX100 IV Panasonic ZS100 Olympus TG-5 +6 more
petebuster
petebuster Contributing Member • Posts: 855
Re: Gopro Hero 5 vs Sony FDR-X3000 (winner)

Markr041 wrote:

petebuster wrote:

Markr041 wrote:

petebuster wrote:

I don't think gopro are doing great but Sony certainly won't overtake take them with their silly designed x3000 and boss that most action cameras users don't need.

GoPro is going to go out of business, as predicted by many. Then everyone will "overtake" them. The market works - when a company stops innovating, it fails no matter what the hype, and no matter the existence of consumers who evidently know little about the kinds of products they sell and just rely on brand recognition.

Btw, why do you keep saying the same juvenile thing over and over ("silly" design, really?, stabilization is not needed, really?).

Just because your obsessed with boss doesn't mean everyone is, if they were there wouldn't be so many action cameras on the market, get in the real world will you. gopro going out business? your expert opinion? we'll see.

As I've said many times which you still can't comprehend, people don't buy any camera on one function, you might but then not everyone is obsessed with one function

You said "most" people dont need stabilization, yet GoPro added (digital) stabilization in their latest cameras because they understand how useful it is. Unfortunately, the implementation is inferior in every way to that in the X3000.

Almost every modern camera from all manufacturers, including cell phone cameras, includes stabilization in the lens or in the body that is non-digital. Unless the video is shot from a tripod, it is essential or at least very useful - whether handheld or mounted on anything that moves.

You evidently don't shoot enough video to understand the importance, but GoPro does as well as all camera and cell phone manufacturers. Shoot some video and learn why stabilization is important. It isn't always needed, of course. But neither is any particular feature. Just like you do not need the superior performance in low light of the X3000, but sometimes it is essential. Not all features are of equal importance - "voice command" is hardly something most people would need. But if you do, the GoPro is your choice.

There you go again, misquoting I never said most people don't need image stabilisation of course it's far better to have, but I said most don't need your beloved boss, even if I was seriously into video I wouldn't use a action camera unless I was jumping out of a plane or doing something where you couldn't use anything bigger, but most videos are of boring bike rides which I couldn't care less whether they're stabilized or not. they're called action cameras for a reason but that seems to have bypassed you as well.

 petebuster's gear list:petebuster's gear list
Nikon Coolpix P900 Pentax K-5 IIs Tamron SP AF 90mm F/2.8 Di Macro Pentax smc DA 50mm F1.8 HD Pentax DA 55-300mm F4.0-5.8 ED WR
Markr041 Veteran Member • Posts: 6,562
Re: Gopro Hero 5 vs Sony FDR-X3000 (winner)

petebuster wrote:

Markr041 wrote:

petebuster wrote:

Markr041 wrote:

petebuster wrote:

I don't think gopro are doing great but Sony certainly won't overtake take them with their silly designed x3000 and boss that most action cameras users don't need.

GoPro is going to go out of business, as predicted by many. Then everyone will "overtake" them. The market works - when a company stops innovating, it fails no matter what the hype, and no matter the existence of consumers who evidently know little about the kinds of products they sell and just rely on brand recognition.

Btw, why do you keep saying the same juvenile thing over and over ("silly" design, really?, stabilization is not needed, really?).

Just because your obsessed with boss doesn't mean everyone is, if they were there wouldn't be so many action cameras on the market, get in the real world will you. gopro going out business? your expert opinion? we'll see.

As I've said many times which you still can't comprehend, people don't buy any camera on one function, you might but then not everyone is obsessed with one function

You said "most" people dont need stabilization, yet GoPro added (digital) stabilization in their latest cameras because they understand how useful it is. Unfortunately, the implementation is inferior in every way to that in the X3000.

Almost every modern camera from all manufacturers, including cell phone cameras, includes stabilization in the lens or in the body that is non-digital. Unless the video is shot from a tripod, it is essential or at least very useful - whether handheld or mounted on anything that moves.

You evidently don't shoot enough video to understand the importance, but GoPro does as well as all camera and cell phone manufacturers. Shoot some video and learn why stabilization is important. It isn't always needed, of course. But neither is any particular feature. Just like you do not need the superior performance in low light of the X3000, but sometimes it is essential. Not all features are of equal importance - "voice command" is hardly something most people would need. But if you do, the GoPro is your choice.

There you go again, misquoting I never said most people don't need image stabilisation of course it's far better to have, but I said most don't need your beloved boss, even if I was seriously into video I wouldn't use a silly action camera unless I was jumping out of a plane or doing something where you couldn't use anything bigger, but most videos are of boring bike rides which I couldn't care less whether they're stabilized or not. they're called action cameras for a reason but that seems to have bypassed you as well.

The logic you missed is that if you need camera stabilization everyone agrees that BOSS is the best. So if most do indeed need stabilization, they need BOSS. Digital stabilization like in GoPros is distorting, resolution-reducing and less effective. Moreover, in the GoPro, in 4K there is none, zero. In fact the X3000 is the only action cam that has stabilization in 4K, and it happens to be the best. So if "most" do in fact need stabilization in 4K in an action cam, they need BOSS.

There are points I agree with you on, but you don't see their implications for what features are useful. First, as you yourself said, an action cam is really useful when one "couldn't use anything bigger." I agree completely. There are (4K) videos I was able to make with an action cam precisely because a big camera would not do (many posted in this forum). That is what makes having a tiny camera so useful, and BOSS (and low-light performance) makes it even more versatile if one cares about video quality.

I am sure you and I also agree also that of the millions of people who bought GoPros, very few used them while jumping out of a plane or ski jumping or even deep sea diving. They used them to record everday activities, including their hikes and bike rides, and for all that stabilization is essential. The robustness and small size of action cams make them very handy under all conditions. They are smaller than smart phones and far less vulnerable. And, for given video quality, much cheaper.

 Markr041's gear list:Markr041's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DMC-FZ200 Panasonic LX100 Sony RX100 IV Panasonic ZS100 Olympus TG-5 +6 more
petebuster
petebuster Contributing Member • Posts: 855
Re: Gopro Hero 5 vs Sony FDR-X3000 (winner)

Markr041 wrote:

petebuster wrote:

Markr041 wrote:

petebuster wrote:

Markr041 wrote:

petebuster wrote:

I don't think gopro are doing great but Sony certainly won't overtake take them with their silly designed x3000 and boss that most action cameras users don't need.

GoPro is going to go out of business, as predicted by many. Then everyone will "overtake" them. The market works - when a company stops innovating, it fails no matter what the hype, and no matter the existence of consumers who evidently know little about the kinds of products they sell and just rely on brand recognition.

Btw, why do you keep saying the same juvenile thing over and over ("silly" design, really?, stabilization is not needed, really?).

Just because your obsessed with boss doesn't mean everyone is, if they were there wouldn't be so many action cameras on the market, get in the real world will you. gopro going out business? your expert opinion? we'll see.

As I've said many times which you still can't comprehend, people don't buy any camera on one function, you might but then not everyone is obsessed with one function

You said "most" people dont need stabilization, yet GoPro added (digital) stabilization in their latest cameras because they understand how useful it is. Unfortunately, the implementation is inferior in every way to that in the X3000.

Almost every modern camera from all manufacturers, including cell phone cameras, includes stabilization in the lens or in the body that is non-digital. Unless the video is shot from a tripod, it is essential or at least very useful - whether handheld or mounted on anything that moves.

You evidently don't shoot enough video to understand the importance, but GoPro does as well as all camera and cell phone manufacturers. Shoot some video and learn why stabilization is important. It isn't always needed, of course. But neither is any particular feature. Just like you do not need the superior performance in low light of the X3000, but sometimes it is essential. Not all features are of equal importance - "voice command" is hardly something most people would need. But if you do, the GoPro is your choice.

There you go again, misquoting I never said most people don't need image stabilisation of course it's far better to have, but I said most don't need your beloved boss, even if I was seriously into video I wouldn't use a silly action camera unless I was jumping out of a plane or doing something where you couldn't use anything bigger, but most videos are of boring bike rides which I couldn't care less whether they're stabilized or not. they're called action cameras for a reason but that seems to have bypassed you as well.

The logic you missed is that if you need camera stabilization everyone agrees that BOSS is the best. So if most do indeed need stabilization, they need BOSS. Digital stabilization like in GoPros is distorting, resolution-reducing and less effective. Moreover, in the GoPro, in 4K there is none, zero. In fact the X3000 is the only action cam that has stabilization in 4K, and it happens to be the best. So if "most" do in fact need stabilization in 4K in an action cam, they need BOSS.

There are points I agree with you on, but you don't see their implications for what features are useful. First, as you yourself said, an action cam is really useful when one "couldn't use anything bigger." I agree completely. There are (4K) videos I was able to make with an action cam precisely because a big camera would not do (many posted in this forum). That is what makes having a tiny camera so useful, and BOSS (and low-light performance) makes it even more versatile if one cares about video quality.

I am sure you and I also agree also that of the millions of people who bought GoPros, very few used them while jumping out of a plane or ski jumping or even deep sea diving. They used them to record everday activities, including their hikes and bike rides, and for all that stabilization is essential. The robustness and small size of action cams make them very handy under all conditions. They are smaller than smart phones and far less vulnerable. And, for given video quality, much cheaper.

Yes I agree but you go on about boss as though it's the be all and end all, there are other factors why people choose one camera over another, just because it's got the best stabilization doesn't make the best choice for many. You really don't seem to understand there's more than one factor that people consider in making a decision. It maybe your choice which is yours, it doesn't mean it's right or the best for others.

According to you there's only one decent camera on the market which is totally not the case.

 petebuster's gear list:petebuster's gear list
Nikon Coolpix P900 Pentax K-5 IIs Tamron SP AF 90mm F/2.8 Di Macro Pentax smc DA 50mm F1.8 HD Pentax DA 55-300mm F4.0-5.8 ED WR
Markr041 Veteran Member • Posts: 6,562
Re: Gopro Hero 5 vs Sony FDR-X3000 (winner)

petebuster wrote:

Markr041 wrote:

petebuster wrote:

Markr041 wrote:

petebuster wrote:

Markr041 wrote:

petebuster wrote:

I don't think gopro are doing great but Sony certainly won't overtake take them with their silly designed x3000 and boss that most action cameras users don't need.

GoPro is going to go out of business, as predicted by many. Then everyone will "overtake" them. The market works - when a company stops innovating, it fails no matter what the hype, and no matter the existence of consumers who evidently know little about the kinds of products they sell and just rely on brand recognition.

Btw, why do you keep saying the same juvenile thing over and over ("silly" design, really?, stabilization is not needed, really?).

Just because your obsessed with boss doesn't mean everyone is, if they were there wouldn't be so many action cameras on the market, get in the real world will you. gopro going out business? your expert opinion? we'll see.

As I've said many times which you still can't comprehend, people don't buy any camera on one function, you might but then not everyone is obsessed with one function

You said "most" people dont need stabilization, yet GoPro added (digital) stabilization in their latest cameras because they understand how useful it is. Unfortunately, the implementation is inferior in every way to that in the X3000.

Almost every modern camera from all manufacturers, including cell phone cameras, includes stabilization in the lens or in the body that is non-digital. Unless the video is shot from a tripod, it is essential or at least very useful - whether handheld or mounted on anything that moves.

You evidently don't shoot enough video to understand the importance, but GoPro does as well as all camera and cell phone manufacturers. Shoot some video and learn why stabilization is important. It isn't always needed, of course. But neither is any particular feature. Just like you do not need the superior performance in low light of the X3000, but sometimes it is essential. Not all features are of equal importance - "voice command" is hardly something most people would need. But if you do, the GoPro is your choice.

There you go again, misquoting I never said most people don't need image stabilisation of course it's far better to have, but I said most don't need your beloved boss, even if I was seriously into video I wouldn't use a silly action camera unless I was jumping out of a plane or doing something where you couldn't use anything bigger, but most videos are of boring bike rides which I couldn't care less whether they're stabilized or not. they're called action cameras for a reason but that seems to have bypassed you as well.

The logic you missed is that if you need camera stabilization everyone agrees that BOSS is the best. So if most do indeed need stabilization, they need BOSS. Digital stabilization like in GoPros is distorting, resolution-reducing and less effective. Moreover, in the GoPro, in 4K there is none, zero. In fact the X3000 is the only action cam that has stabilization in 4K, and it happens to be the best. So if "most" do in fact need stabilization in 4K in an action cam, they need BOSS.

There are points I agree with you on, but you don't see their implications for what features are useful. First, as you yourself said, an action cam is really useful when one "couldn't use anything bigger." I agree completely. There are (4K) videos I was able to make with an action cam precisely because a big camera would not do (many posted in this forum). That is what makes having a tiny camera so useful, and BOSS (and low-light performance) makes it even more versatile if one cares about video quality.

I am sure you and I also agree also that of the millions of people who bought GoPros, very few used them while jumping out of a plane or ski jumping or even deep sea diving. They used them to record everday activities, including their hikes and bike rides, and for all that stabilization is essential. The robustness and small size of action cams make them very handy under all conditions. They are smaller than smart phones and far less vulnerable. And, for given video quality, much cheaper.

Yes I agree but you go on about boss as though it's the be all and end all, there are other factors why people choose one camera over another, just because it's got the best stabilization doesn't make the best choice for many. You really don't seem to understand there's more than one factor that people consider in making a decision. It maybe your choice which is yours, it doesn't mean it's right or the best for others.

According to you there's only one decent camera on the market which is totally not the case.

C'mon, do you really think I believe "there's only one decent camera on the market" and I don't understand "there are other factors why people choose one camera over another" and that " there's more than one factor that people consider in making a decision"? What I do believe is that you do not fully appreciate how important non-digital stabilization is for videography even for action cams (or maybe especially), which is understandable given you don't shoot video a lot. That's it.

 Markr041's gear list:Markr041's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DMC-FZ200 Panasonic LX100 Sony RX100 IV Panasonic ZS100 Olympus TG-5 +6 more
petebuster
petebuster Contributing Member • Posts: 855
Re: Gopro Hero 5 vs Sony FDR-X3000 (winner)

Markr041 wrote:

petebuster wrote:

Markr041 wrote:

petebuster wrote:

Markr041 wrote:

petebuster wrote:

Markr041 wrote:

petebuster wrote:

I don't think gopro are doing great but Sony certainly won't overtake take them with their silly designed x3000 and boss that most action cameras users don't need.

GoPro is going to go out of business, as predicted by many. Then everyone will "overtake" them. The market works - when a company stops innovating, it fails no matter what the hype, and no matter the existence of consumers who evidently know little about the kinds of products they sell and just rely on brand recognition.

Btw, why do you keep saying the same juvenile thing over and over ("silly" design, really?, stabilization is not needed, really?).

Just because your obsessed with boss doesn't mean everyone is, if they were there wouldn't be so many action cameras on the market, get in the real world will you. gopro going out business? your expert opinion? we'll see.

As I've said many times which you still can't comprehend, people don't buy any camera on one function, you might but then not everyone is obsessed with one function

You said "most" people dont need stabilization, yet GoPro added (digital) stabilization in their latest cameras because they understand how useful it is. Unfortunately, the implementation is inferior in every way to that in the X3000.

Almost every modern camera from all manufacturers, including cell phone cameras, includes stabilization in the lens or in the body that is non-digital. Unless the video is shot from a tripod, it is essential or at least very useful - whether handheld or mounted on anything that moves.

You evidently don't shoot enough video to understand the importance, but GoPro does as well as all camera and cell phone manufacturers. Shoot some video and learn why stabilization is important. It isn't always needed, of course. But neither is any particular feature. Just like you do not need the superior performance in low light of the X3000, but sometimes it is essential. Not all features are of equal importance - "voice command" is hardly something most people would need. But if you do, the GoPro is your choice.

There you go again, misquoting I never said most people don't need image stabilisation of course it's far better to have, but I said most don't need your beloved boss, even if I was seriously into video I wouldn't use a silly action camera unless I was jumping out of a plane or doing something where you couldn't use anything bigger, but most videos are of boring bike rides which I couldn't care less whether they're stabilized or not. they're called action cameras for a reason but that seems to have bypassed you as well.

The logic you missed is that if you need camera stabilization everyone agrees that BOSS is the best. So if most do indeed need stabilization, they need BOSS. Digital stabilization like in GoPros is distorting, resolution-reducing and less effective. Moreover, in the GoPro, in 4K there is none, zero. In fact the X3000 is the only action cam that has stabilization in 4K, and it happens to be the best. So if "most" do in fact need stabilization in 4K in an action cam, they need BOSS.

There are points I agree with you on, but you don't see their implications for what features are useful. First, as you yourself said, an action cam is really useful when one "couldn't use anything bigger." I agree completely. There are (4K) videos I was able to make with an action cam precisely because a big camera would not do (many posted in this forum). That is what makes having a tiny camera so useful, and BOSS (and low-light performance) makes it even more versatile if one cares about video quality.

I am sure you and I also agree also that of the millions of people who bought GoPros, very few used them while jumping out of a plane or ski jumping or even deep sea diving. They used them to record everday activities, including their hikes and bike rides, and for all that stabilization is essential. The robustness and small size of action cams make them very handy under all conditions. They are smaller than smart phones and far less vulnerable. And, for given video quality, much cheaper.

Yes I agree but you go on about boss as though it's the be all and end all, there are other factors why people choose one camera over another, just because it's got the best stabilization doesn't make the best choice for many. You really don't seem to understand there's more than one factor that people consider in making a decision. It maybe your choice which is yours, it doesn't mean it's right or the best for others.

According to you there's only one decent camera on the market which is totally not the case.

C'mon, do you really think I believe "there's only one decent camera on the market" and I don't understand "there are other factors why people choose one camera over another" and that " there's more than one factor that people consider in making a decision"? What I do believe is that you do not fully appreciate how important non-digital stabilization is for videography even for action cams (or maybe especially), which is understandable given you don't shoot video a lot. That's it.

Good it just comes across like that, the way you go on about boss. secondly most people taking  everyday things is hardly serious videography and nor is most of what I've seen action cams used for so spending £500 on a action cam is overkill

 petebuster's gear list:petebuster's gear list
Nikon Coolpix P900 Pentax K-5 IIs Tamron SP AF 90mm F/2.8 Di Macro Pentax smc DA 50mm F1.8 HD Pentax DA 55-300mm F4.0-5.8 ED WR
Markr041 Veteran Member • Posts: 6,562
Re: Gopro Hero 5 vs Sony FDR-X3000 (winner)

petebuster wrote:

Markr041 wrote:

petebuster wrote:

Markr041 wrote:

petebuster wrote:

Markr041 wrote:

petebuster wrote:

Markr041 wrote:

petebuster wrote:

I don't think gopro are doing great but Sony certainly won't overtake take them with their silly designed x3000 and boss that most action cameras users don't need.

GoPro is going to go out of business, as predicted by many. Then everyone will "overtake" them. The market works - when a company stops innovating, it fails no matter what the hype, and no matter the existence of consumers who evidently know little about the kinds of products they sell and just rely on brand recognition.

Btw, why do you keep saying the same juvenile thing over and over ("silly" design, really?, stabilization is not needed, really?).

Just because your obsessed with boss doesn't mean everyone is, if they were there wouldn't be so many action cameras on the market, get in the real world will you. gopro going out business? your expert opinion? we'll see.

As I've said many times which you still can't comprehend, people don't buy any camera on one function, you might but then not everyone is obsessed with one function

You said "most" people dont need stabilization, yet GoPro added (digital) stabilization in their latest cameras because they understand how useful it is. Unfortunately, the implementation is inferior in every way to that in the X3000.

Almost every modern camera from all manufacturers, including cell phone cameras, includes stabilization in the lens or in the body that is non-digital. Unless the video is shot from a tripod, it is essential or at least very useful - whether handheld or mounted on anything that moves.

You evidently don't shoot enough video to understand the importance, but GoPro does as well as all camera and cell phone manufacturers. Shoot some video and learn why stabilization is important. It isn't always needed, of course. But neither is any particular feature. Just like you do not need the superior performance in low light of the X3000, but sometimes it is essential. Not all features are of equal importance - "voice command" is hardly something most people would need. But if you do, the GoPro is your choice.

There you go again, misquoting I never said most people don't need image stabilisation of course it's far better to have, but I said most don't need your beloved boss, even if I was seriously into video I wouldn't use a silly action camera unless I was jumping out of a plane or doing something where you couldn't use anything bigger, but most videos are of boring bike rides which I couldn't care less whether they're stabilized or not. they're called action cameras for a reason but that seems to have bypassed you as well.

The logic you missed is that if you need camera stabilization everyone agrees that BOSS is the best. So if most do indeed need stabilization, they need BOSS. Digital stabilization like in GoPros is distorting, resolution-reducing and less effective. Moreover, in the GoPro, in 4K there is none, zero. In fact the X3000 is the only action cam that has stabilization in 4K, and it happens to be the best. So if "most" do in fact need stabilization in 4K in an action cam, they need BOSS.

There are points I agree with you on, but you don't see their implications for what features are useful. First, as you yourself said, an action cam is really useful when one "couldn't use anything bigger." I agree completely. There are (4K) videos I was able to make with an action cam precisely because a big camera would not do (many posted in this forum). That is what makes having a tiny camera so useful, and BOSS (and low-light performance) makes it even more versatile if one cares about video quality.

I am sure you and I also agree also that of the millions of people who bought GoPros, very few used them while jumping out of a plane or ski jumping or even deep sea diving. They used them to record everday activities, including their hikes and bike rides, and for all that stabilization is essential. The robustness and small size of action cams make them very handy under all conditions. They are smaller than smart phones and far less vulnerable. And, for given video quality, much cheaper.

Yes I agree but you go on about boss as though it's the be all and end all, there are other factors why people choose one camera over another, just because it's got the best stabilization doesn't make the best choice for many. You really don't seem to understand there's more than one factor that people consider in making a decision. It maybe your choice which is yours, it doesn't mean it's right or the best for others.

According to you there's only one decent camera on the market which is totally not the case.

C'mon, do you really think I believe "there's only one decent camera on the market" and I don't understand "there are other factors why people choose one camera over another" and that " there's more than one factor that people consider in making a decision"? What I do believe is that you do not fully appreciate how important non-digital stabilization is for videography even for action cams (or maybe especially), which is understandable given you don't shoot video a lot. That's it.

Good it just comes across like that, the way you go on about boss. secondly most people taking everyday things is hardly serious videography and nor is most of what I've seen action cams used for so spending £500 on a action cam is overkill

By "serious" I mean they value video and take a lot of it, not that they shoot "serious" topics. Family video is taken very seriously. People want to document things they have seen, their children growing up, their sports play close up. And they want those "records" to be as high quality as possible, but without much bother. They are not going to use a gimbal, and everyone hates shaky video. And they do not want to worry about the camera getting wet or fiddling with controls (which his what is needed just to go into camera mode on a smart phone). Turn on and shoot is what most people want.

The cost of the X3000+lcd is $499 (staring Nov 20), that is far less than the £500 you quote (and just $100 more than the latest GoPro). But leaving aside the GoPro, that cost is far less than most camcorders, which are also much bigger (but do have more features, most of which are inessential). For example, the Sony X3000 has exactly the same sensor and BOSS as the Sony AX53 - the video quality in bright and low light is almost exactly the same (the AX53 in wide mode has a faster lens, so in low light it might do a little better - but that is why the lens is so darn big)). But the AX53 camera costs over $900. You do get a zoom and more control (focus, aperture), but at the cost of the camera being gigantic and heavy. And at the end of the day the video quality is pretty much the same. So if one is into video "seriously" in the sense of shooting a lot of it, an action cam is an option that saves money and bother (bulk).

Again, I can shoot video at times and in places with the X3000 where I would not be able to carry around a big camcorder. And yet I would get video quality that rivals it. And leaving aside the stabilization issue (however important), same for the $400 GoPro.

 Markr041's gear list:Markr041's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DMC-FZ200 Panasonic LX100 Sony RX100 IV Panasonic ZS100 Olympus TG-5 +6 more
petebuster
petebuster Contributing Member • Posts: 855
Re: Gopro Hero 5 vs Sony FDR-X3000 (winner)

Markr041 wrote:

petebuster wrote:

Markr041 wrote:

petebuster wrote:

Markr041 wrote:

petebuster wrote:

Markr041 wrote:

petebuster wrote:

Markr041 wrote:

petebuster wrote:

I don't think gopro are doing great but Sony certainly won't overtake take them with their silly designed x3000 and boss that most action cameras users don't need.

GoPro is going to go out of business, as predicted by many. Then everyone will "overtake" them. The market works - when a company stops innovating, it fails no matter what the hype, and no matter the existence of consumers who evidently know little about the kinds of products they sell and just rely on brand recognition.

Btw, why do you keep saying the same juvenile thing over and over ("silly" design, really?, stabilization is not needed, really?).

Just because your obsessed with boss doesn't mean everyone is, if they were there wouldn't be so many action cameras on the market, get in the real world will you. gopro going out business? your expert opinion? we'll see.

As I've said many times which you still can't comprehend, people don't buy any camera on one function, you might but then not everyone is obsessed with one function

You said "most" people dont need stabilization, yet GoPro added (digital) stabilization in their latest cameras because they understand how useful it is. Unfortunately, the implementation is inferior in every way to that in the X3000.

Almost every modern camera from all manufacturers, including cell phone cameras, includes stabilization in the lens or in the body that is non-digital. Unless the video is shot from a tripod, it is essential or at least very useful - whether handheld or mounted on anything that moves.

You evidently don't shoot enough video to understand the importance, but GoPro does as well as all camera and cell phone manufacturers. Shoot some video and learn why stabilization is important. It isn't always needed, of course. But neither is any particular feature. Just like you do not need the superior performance in low light of the X3000, but sometimes it is essential. Not all features are of equal importance - "voice command" is hardly something most people would need. But if you do, the GoPro is your choice.

There you go again, misquoting I never said most people don't need image stabilisation of course it's far better to have, but I said most don't need your beloved boss, even if I was seriously into video I wouldn't use a silly action camera unless I was jumping out of a plane or doing something where you couldn't use anything bigger, but most videos are of boring bike rides which I couldn't care less whether they're stabilized or not. they're called action cameras for a reason but that seems to have bypassed you as well.

The logic you missed is that if you need camera stabilization everyone agrees that BOSS is the best. So if most do indeed need stabilization, they need BOSS. Digital stabilization like in GoPros is distorting, resolution-reducing and less effective. Moreover, in the GoPro, in 4K there is none, zero. In fact the X3000 is the only action cam that has stabilization in 4K, and it happens to be the best. So if "most" do in fact need stabilization in 4K in an action cam, they need BOSS.

There are points I agree with you on, but you don't see their implications for what features are useful. First, as you yourself said, an action cam is really useful when one "couldn't use anything bigger." I agree completely. There are (4K) videos I was able to make with an action cam precisely because a big camera would not do (many posted in this forum). That is what makes having a tiny camera so useful, and BOSS (and low-light performance) makes it even more versatile if one cares about video quality.

I am sure you and I also agree also that of the millions of people who bought GoPros, very few used them while jumping out of a plane or ski jumping or even deep sea diving. They used them to record everday activities, including their hikes and bike rides, and for all that stabilization is essential. The robustness and small size of action cams make them very handy under all conditions. They are smaller than smart phones and far less vulnerable. And, for given video quality, much cheaper.

Yes I agree but you go on about boss as though it's the be all and end all, there are other factors why people choose one camera over another, just because it's got the best stabilization doesn't make the best choice for many. You really don't seem to understand there's more than one factor that people consider in making a decision. It maybe your choice which is yours, it doesn't mean it's right or the best for others.

According to you there's only one decent camera on the market which is totally not the case.

C'mon, do you really think I believe "there's only one decent camera on the market" and I don't understand "there are other factors why people choose one camera over another" and that " there's more than one factor that people consider in making a decision"? What I do believe is that you do not fully appreciate how important non-digital stabilization is for videography even for action cams (or maybe especially), which is understandable given you don't shoot video a lot. That's it.

Good it just comes across like that, the way you go on about boss. secondly most people taking everyday things is hardly serious videography and nor is most of what I've seen action cams used for so spending £500 on a action cam is overkill

By "serious" I mean they value video and take a lot of it, not that they shoot "serious" topics. Family video is taken very seriously. People want to document things they have seen, their children growing up, their sports play close up. And they want those "records" to be as high quality as possible, but without much bother. They are not going to use a gimbal, and everyone hates shaky video. And they do not want to worry about the camera getting wet or fiddling with controls (which his what is needed just to go into camera mode on a smart phone). Turn on and shoot is what most people want.

The cost of the X3000+lcd is $499 (staring Nov 20), that is far less than the £500 you quote (and just $100 more than the latest GoPro). But leaving aside the GoPro, that cost is far less than most camcorders, which are also much bigger (but do have more features, most of which are inessential). For example, the Sony X3000 has exactly the same sensor and BOSS as the Sony AX53 - the video quality in bright and low light is almost exactly the same (the AX53 in wide mode has a faster lens, so in low light it might do a little better - but that is why the lens is so darn big)). But the AX53 camera costs over $900. You do get a zoom and more control (focus, aperture), but at the cost of the camera being gigantic and heavy. And at the end of the day the video quality is pretty much the same. So if one is into video "seriously" in the sense of shooting a lot of it, an action cam is an option that saves money and bother (bulk).

Again, I can shoot video at times and in places with the X3000 where I would not be able to carry around a big camcorder. And yet I would get video quality that rivals it. And leaving aside the stabilization issue (however important), same for the $400 GoPro.

Not doubting its quality, but there's quality out at much cheaper prices, you can easily pick a gopro 5 at around £300, £200 cheaper than the X3000, I can only quote UK prices, that's big difference and the quality is more than sufficient, and you get an in bulit touch screen, waterproofing without housing etc, those things make it a much more attractive proposition whether you like it or not, not that I'd risk getting another one.Most people don't take video seriously or to the extent you do, that's why more and more people use their phones nowadays.

 petebuster's gear list:petebuster's gear list
Nikon Coolpix P900 Pentax K-5 IIs Tamron SP AF 90mm F/2.8 Di Macro Pentax smc DA 50mm F1.8 HD Pentax DA 55-300mm F4.0-5.8 ED WR
Markr041 Veteran Member • Posts: 6,562
Re: Gopro Hero 5 vs Sony FDR-X3000 (winner)

petebuster wrote:

Markr041 wrote:

petebuster wrote:

Markr041 wrote:

petebuster wrote:

Markr041 wrote:

petebuster wrote:

Markr041 wrote:

petebuster wrote:

Markr041 wrote:

petebuster wrote:

I don't think gopro are doing great but Sony certainly won't overtake take them with their silly designed x3000 and boss that most action cameras users don't need.

GoPro is going to go out of business, as predicted by many. Then everyone will "overtake" them. The market works - when a company stops innovating, it fails no matter what the hype, and no matter the existence of consumers who evidently know little about the kinds of products they sell and just rely on brand recognition.

Btw, why do you keep saying the same juvenile thing over and over ("silly" design, really?, stabilization is not needed, really?).

Just because your obsessed with boss doesn't mean everyone is, if they were there wouldn't be so many action cameras on the market, get in the real world will you. gopro going out business? your expert opinion? we'll see.

As I've said many times which you still can't comprehend, people don't buy any camera on one function, you might but then not everyone is obsessed with one function

You said "most" people dont need stabilization, yet GoPro added (digital) stabilization in their latest cameras because they understand how useful it is. Unfortunately, the implementation is inferior in every way to that in the X3000.

Almost every modern camera from all manufacturers, including cell phone cameras, includes stabilization in the lens or in the body that is non-digital. Unless the video is shot from a tripod, it is essential or at least very useful - whether handheld or mounted on anything that moves.

You evidently don't shoot enough video to understand the importance, but GoPro does as well as all camera and cell phone manufacturers. Shoot some video and learn why stabilization is important. It isn't always needed, of course. But neither is any particular feature. Just like you do not need the superior performance in low light of the X3000, but sometimes it is essential. Not all features are of equal importance - "voice command" is hardly something most people would need. But if you do, the GoPro is your choice.

There you go again, misquoting I never said most people don't need image stabilisation of course it's far better to have, but I said most don't need your beloved boss, even if I was seriously into video I wouldn't use a silly action camera unless I was jumping out of a plane or doing something where you couldn't use anything bigger, but most videos are of boring bike rides which I couldn't care less whether they're stabilized or not. they're called action cameras for a reason but that seems to have bypassed you as well.

The logic you missed is that if you need camera stabilization everyone agrees that BOSS is the best. So if most do indeed need stabilization, they need BOSS. Digital stabilization like in GoPros is distorting, resolution-reducing and less effective. Moreover, in the GoPro, in 4K there is none, zero. In fact the X3000 is the only action cam that has stabilization in 4K, and it happens to be the best. So if "most" do in fact need stabilization in 4K in an action cam, they need BOSS.

There are points I agree with you on, but you don't see their implications for what features are useful. First, as you yourself said, an action cam is really useful when one "couldn't use anything bigger." I agree completely. There are (4K) videos I was able to make with an action cam precisely because a big camera would not do (many posted in this forum). That is what makes having a tiny camera so useful, and BOSS (and low-light performance) makes it even more versatile if one cares about video quality.

I am sure you and I also agree also that of the millions of people who bought GoPros, very few used them while jumping out of a plane or ski jumping or even deep sea diving. They used them to record everday activities, including their hikes and bike rides, and for all that stabilization is essential. The robustness and small size of action cams make them very handy under all conditions. They are smaller than smart phones and far less vulnerable. And, for given video quality, much cheaper.

Yes I agree but you go on about boss as though it's the be all and end all, there are other factors why people choose one camera over another, just because it's got the best stabilization doesn't make the best choice for many. You really don't seem to understand there's more than one factor that people consider in making a decision. It maybe your choice which is yours, it doesn't mean it's right or the best for others.

According to you there's only one decent camera on the market which is totally not the case.

C'mon, do you really think I believe "there's only one decent camera on the market" and I don't understand "there are other factors why people choose one camera over another" and that " there's more than one factor that people consider in making a decision"? What I do believe is that you do not fully appreciate how important non-digital stabilization is for videography even for action cams (or maybe especially), which is understandable given you don't shoot video a lot. That's it.

Good it just comes across like that, the way you go on about boss. secondly most people taking everyday things is hardly serious videography and nor is most of what I've seen action cams used for so spending £500 on a action cam is overkill

By "serious" I mean they value video and take a lot of it, not that they shoot "serious" topics. Family video is taken very seriously. People want to document things they have seen, their children growing up, their sports play close up. And they want those "records" to be as high quality as possible, but without much bother. They are not going to use a gimbal, and everyone hates shaky video. And they do not want to worry about the camera getting wet or fiddling with controls (which his what is needed just to go into camera mode on a smart phone). Turn on and shoot is what most people want.

The cost of the X3000+lcd is $499 (staring Nov 20), that is far less than the £500 you quote (and just $100 more than the latest GoPro). But leaving aside the GoPro, that cost is far less than most camcorders, which are also much bigger (but do have more features, most of which are inessential). For example, the Sony X3000 has exactly the same sensor and BOSS as the Sony AX53 - the video quality in bright and low light is almost exactly the same (the AX53 in wide mode has a faster lens, so in low light it might do a little better - but that is why the lens is so darn big)). But the AX53 camera costs over $900. You do get a zoom and more control (focus, aperture), but at the cost of the camera being gigantic and heavy. And at the end of the day the video quality is pretty much the same. So if one is into video "seriously" in the sense of shooting a lot of it, an action cam is an option that saves money and bother (bulk).

Again, I can shoot video at times and in places with the X3000 where I would not be able to carry around a big camcorder. And yet I would get video quality that rivals it. And leaving aside the stabilization issue (however important), same for the $400 GoPro.

Not doubting its quality, but there's quality out at much cheaper prices, you can easily pick a gopro 5 at around £300, £200 cheaper than the X3000, I can only quote UK prices, that's big difference and the quality is more than sufficient, and you get an in bulit touch screen, waterproofing without housing etc, those things make it a much more attractive proposition whether you like it or not, not that I'd risk getting another one.Most people don't take video seriously or to the extent you do, that's why more and more people use their phones nowadays.

I wonder why the price difference is so large in the UK, when it will be just $100 in the US for the complete kit (camera+lcd)? I agree that price counts, and that waterproof out of the box is quite useful. I do, however, think the flexible lcd for the Sony Kit (which attaches the lcd to the camera but allows it to swivel) is a better implementation than the fixed lcd  of the GoPro (again, this is why almost all cameras have lcds that swivel).

I also agree that as cell phone cameras have improved, the rationale for getting a separate camera has been substantially reduced. I have shot a full 4K video with my Samsung phone (which has optical stabilization), and it was not bad. The good news is that camera makers have to be more innovative to justify their purchase; this is why GoPro was so disappointing (I was eagerly awaiting the new version).

 Markr041's gear list:Markr041's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DMC-FZ200 Panasonic LX100 Sony RX100 IV Panasonic ZS100 Olympus TG-5 +6 more
petebuster
petebuster Contributing Member • Posts: 855
Re: Gopro Hero 5 vs Sony FDR-X3000 (winner)

Markr041 wrote:

petebuster wrote:

Markr041 wrote:

petebuster wrote:

Markr041 wrote:

petebuster wrote:

Markr041 wrote:

petebuster wrote:

Markr041 wrote:

petebuster wrote:

Markr041 wrote:

petebuster wrote:

I don't think gopro are doing great but Sony certainly won't overtake take them with their silly designed x3000 and boss that most action cameras users don't need.

GoPro is going to go out of business, as predicted by many. Then everyone will "overtake" them. The market works - when a company stops innovating, it fails no matter what the hype, and no matter the existence of consumers who evidently know little about the kinds of products they sell and just rely on brand recognition.

Btw, why do you keep saying the same juvenile thing over and over ("silly" design, really?, stabilization is not needed, really?).

Just because your obsessed with boss doesn't mean everyone is, if they were there wouldn't be so many action cameras on the market, get in the real world will you. gopro going out business? your expert opinion? we'll see.

As I've said many times which you still can't comprehend, people don't buy any camera on one function, you might but then not everyone is obsessed with one function

You said "most" people dont need stabilization, yet GoPro added (digital) stabilization in their latest cameras because they understand how useful it is. Unfortunately, the implementation is inferior in every way to that in the X3000.

Almost every modern camera from all manufacturers, including cell phone cameras, includes stabilization in the lens or in the body that is non-digital. Unless the video is shot from a tripod, it is essential or at least very useful - whether handheld or mounted on anything that moves.

You evidently don't shoot enough video to understand the importance, but GoPro does as well as all camera and cell phone manufacturers. Shoot some video and learn why stabilization is important. It isn't always needed, of course. But neither is any particular feature. Just like you do not need the superior performance in low light of the X3000, but sometimes it is essential. Not all features are of equal importance - "voice command" is hardly something most people would need. But if you do, the GoPro is your choice.

There you go again, misquoting I never said most people don't need image stabilisation of course it's far better to have, but I said most don't need your beloved boss, even if I was seriously into video I wouldn't use a silly action camera unless I was jumping out of a plane or doing something where you couldn't use anything bigger, but most videos are of boring bike rides which I couldn't care less whether they're stabilized or not. they're called action cameras for a reason but that seems to have bypassed you as well.

The logic you missed is that if you need camera stabilization everyone agrees that BOSS is the best. So if most do indeed need stabilization, they need BOSS. Digital stabilization like in GoPros is distorting, resolution-reducing and less effective. Moreover, in the GoPro, in 4K there is none, zero. In fact the X3000 is the only action cam that has stabilization in 4K, and it happens to be the best. So if "most" do in fact need stabilization in 4K in an action cam, they need BOSS.

There are points I agree with you on, but you don't see their implications for what features are useful. First, as you yourself said, an action cam is really useful when one "couldn't use anything bigger." I agree completely. There are (4K) videos I was able to make with an action cam precisely because a big camera would not do (many posted in this forum). That is what makes having a tiny camera so useful, and BOSS (and low-light performance) makes it even more versatile if one cares about video quality.

I am sure you and I also agree also that of the millions of people who bought GoPros, very few used them while jumping out of a plane or ski jumping or even deep sea diving. They used them to record everday activities, including their hikes and bike rides, and for all that stabilization is essential. The robustness and small size of action cams make them very handy under all conditions. They are smaller than smart phones and far less vulnerable. And, for given video quality, much cheaper.

Yes I agree but you go on about boss as though it's the be all and end all, there are other factors why people choose one camera over another, just because it's got the best stabilization doesn't make the best choice for many. You really don't seem to understand there's more than one factor that people consider in making a decision. It maybe your choice which is yours, it doesn't mean it's right or the best for others.

According to you there's only one decent camera on the market which is totally not the case.

C'mon, do you really think I believe "there's only one decent camera on the market" and I don't understand "there are other factors why people choose one camera over another" and that " there's more than one factor that people consider in making a decision"? What I do believe is that you do not fully appreciate how important non-digital stabilization is for videography even for action cams (or maybe especially), which is understandable given you don't shoot video a lot. That's it.

Good it just comes across like that, the way you go on about boss. secondly most people taking everyday things is hardly serious videography and nor is most of what I've seen action cams used for so spending £500 on a action cam is overkill

By "serious" I mean they value video and take a lot of it, not that they shoot "serious" topics. Family video is taken very seriously. People want to document things they have seen, their children growing up, their sports play close up. And they want those "records" to be as high quality as possible, but without much bother. They are not going to use a gimbal, and everyone hates shaky video. And they do not want to worry about the camera getting wet or fiddling with controls (which his what is needed just to go into camera mode on a smart phone). Turn on and shoot is what most people want.

The cost of the X3000+lcd is $499 (staring Nov 20), that is far less than the £500 you quote (and just $100 more than the latest GoPro). But leaving aside the GoPro, that cost is far less than most camcorders, which are also much bigger (but do have more features, most of which are inessential). For example, the Sony X3000 has exactly the same sensor and BOSS as the Sony AX53 - the video quality in bright and low light is almost exactly the same (the AX53 in wide mode has a faster lens, so in low light it might do a little better - but that is why the lens is so darn big)). But the AX53 camera costs over $900. You do get a zoom and more control (focus, aperture), but at the cost of the camera being gigantic and heavy. And at the end of the day the video quality is pretty much the same. So if one is into video "seriously" in the sense of shooting a lot of it, an action cam is an option that saves money and bother (bulk).

Again, I can shoot video at times and in places with the X3000 where I would not be able to carry around a big camcorder. And yet I would get video quality that rivals it. And leaving aside the stabilization issue (however important), same for the $400 GoPro.

Not doubting its quality, but there's quality out at much cheaper prices, you can easily pick a gopro 5 at around £300, £200 cheaper than the X3000, I can only quote UK prices, that's big difference and the quality is more than sufficient, and you get an in bulit touch screen, waterproofing without housing etc, those things make it a much more attractive proposition whether you like it or not, not that I'd risk getting another one.Most people don't take video seriously or to the extent you do, that's why more and more people use their phones nowadays.

I wonder why the price difference is so large in the UK, when it will be just $100 in the US for the complete kit (camera+lcd)? I agree that price counts, and that waterproof out of the box is quite useful. I do, however, think the flexible lcd for the Sony Kit (which attaches the lcd to the camera but allows it to swivel) is a better implementation than the fixed lcd of the GoPro (again, this is why almost all cameras have lcds that swivel).

I also agree that as cell phone cameras have improved, the rationale for getting a separate camera has been substantially reduced. I have shot a full 4K video with my Samsung phone (which has optical stabilization), and it was not bad. The good news is that camera makers have to be more innovative to justify their purchase; this is why GoPro was so disappointing (I was eagerly awaiting the new version).

I guarantee the price of the X3000 will drop here. They really won't sell at that price for long, I agree a tilt lcd is better but only if it's attached to the camera, not a separate part, I've read many complain about that and its something Sony could and should have incorporated as part of the camera which would have made it a much more appealing camera.

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