Preferred mirrorless future

lumenite wrote:

nnowak wrote:

Assume we cannibalize the full frame DPAF sensor from the 5DIV and live view AF works great. For $2000 would you prefer...

For the full frame EF-M options, assume full frame EF-M lense are introduced at the same pace as existing crop EF-M lenses.

I would like to have #2 M5 with full frame sensor (EF-M mount).

However, I can wait for several months or a year for a better price, thinking of Sony A7 or A7R's current price.

The 6D started out at $2100.  After 4 years it is down to $1500.  In the three years since announcement, the A7 and A7R have dropped $600 and $400 respectively.

The A7II has been around for almost two years now and the pricing has not dropped at all.

You may have quite a wait.

ttbek wrote:

I assume the APS-C no change option doesn't get the price hike?

For me M doesn't need to be a FF system, but it's not something I would object to so long as it gets a crop raw option.

My long term plans for the M system are probably different than most here. I see M as the future home of my NX glass with Samsung being down and out.

Are there any adapters out yet for adapting NX to EF-M?

That, and as a more convenient Canon option for MF lenses and being a light camera option some of the time though I'm not adverse to throwing big lenses on either. I see the M5 more as a replacement for my 100D for now than anything else.

I want a 6D2 with an OVF and an EVF.  Make it a true hybrid and send shock waves through the entire DSLR camera market.

MikeJ9116 wrote:

I want a 6D2 with an OVF and an EVF. Make it a true hybrid and send shock waves through the entire DSLR camera market.

That would be the $4000 option and still require the presence of a mirror.

nnowak wrote:

MikeJ9116 wrote:

I want a 6D2 with an OVF and an EVF. Make it a true hybrid and send shock waves through the entire DSLR camera market.

That would be the $4000 option and still require the presence of a mirror.

I want the mirror so I can have the OVF. All I need Canon to do is install an EVF in the upper left corner of the camera as you are looking at the back plate. It could even be a popup design like Sony uses. IMO, Canon could do this easily and for little cost. Then I can have a model that gives me most of the benefits of both systems. When the mirror locks up I can have nearly all the function of an MILC. With it down I have a fully functioning DSLR. If I can have both I wouldn't care about the size of the body because the lenses I would be using would dictate a larger body be used.

I sold all my DSLR gear, everything, and bought an EOS M because I was fed up with the size and weight of my camera equipment.

When I would go abroad my entire hand luggage was camera equipment and by the time I reached my destination my shoulder muscles would be aching like a b#*tch. Likewise, after a whole day shooting my left bicep would also tell me to pack it in. For me my camera equipment became an inconvenience and a burden and I found myself just not bothering to take my camera anywhere anymore. That's when I decided to buy an EOS M with a 22mm prime, which is small/light with a decent sized sensor and have never looked back. A bit like an assassin going from a sniper rifle to a knife.

So to answer your question, I am happy with the image quality and the depth-of-field APS-C sensors give, therefore if using an APS-C sized sensor instead of a 35mm sensor means smaller and lighter bodies and lenses, then I will obviously choose APS-C every single time without fail. However, when I think back to the 35mm film days, there were small compact camera's that used 35mm film perfectly well, so if a full-frame mirrorless camera meant something like an Olympus mju-ii just with a 35mm sensor instead of 35mm film, then sure. EF lenses however, nope, I'm glad to see the back of them.

Something for a serious adventure/wilderness/travel photographer/videographer, would tempt me, even if it cost $3000.  An M5-style body with full weather-sealing, larger buttons that could be identified by feel with a thinly-gloved hand, larger grip and battery for cold-weather shooting, 4K video, 35MP or more resolution, time lapse stills, zebras for video exposure, and fully-articulated LCD for both horizontal and vertical composition would tick my list.  No more crippled cameras, top-shelf features!

Icypeak wrote:

Something for a serious adventure/wilderness/travel photographer/videographer, would tempt me, even if it cost $3000. An M5-style body with full weather-sealing, larger buttons that could be identified by feel with a thinly-gloved hand, larger grip and battery for cold-weather shooting, 4K video, 35MP or more resolution, time lapse stills, zebras for video exposure, and fully-articulated LCD for both horizontal and vertical composition would tick my list. No more crippled cameras, top-shelf features!

Sony makes such a camera today.

lumenite wrote:

kotmj wrote:

Icypeak wrote:

Something for a serious adventure/wilderness/travel photographer/videographer, would tempt me, even if it cost $3000. An M5-style body with full weather-sealing, larger buttons that could be identified by feel with a thinly-gloved hand, larger grip and battery for cold-weather shooting, 4K video, 35MP or more resolution, time lapse stills, zebras for video exposure, and fully-articulated LCD for both horizontal and vertical composition would tick my list. No more crippled cameras, top-shelf features!

Sony makes such a camera today.

Yes, according to specs and prices, Sony's bodies are my preference. What I long for in Canon is something like A7II and I think that Canon won't produce such things.

The problems that I have are that I have Canon gears such as lenses and flashes already and that I am too lazy to change Canon to other brands.

I do not think the Sony A7II is a Canon slayer. I would be equally happy with a 6D. Not based on specs but just the experience of using them. Where the Sony wins for me is twofold: on-sensor focussing and short flange distance. The first allows wanton use of the superlative Sigma Art lenses with fast and accurate AF every single time without the need for AF fine tuning with the dock. The second allows just about any lens ever manufactured to be mounted on the Sony via adapters, some which provide AF to manual lenses (c.f. Tech Art Pro). So Sony is like Android where Canon is a more closed ecosystem like Apple.

I use all my EF lenses on the Sony with the Sigma MC-11. For my uses, they feel quite native. I am very satisfied with this solution.

My Canon 430EXII will not fire on the Sony. So I am using an old manual YongNuo on it for the time being. I find this solution tolerable. If it bugs me too much I will get a TTL flash.

My biggest concern with buying Sony were the insipid colours. I used the Sony A55 and have seen the output from the NEX5 and such and they were just very lousy. Also, there is no AWB on Sony -- it was always wildly off. The recent cameras from Sony have largely fixed the colour problem but AWB remains behind Canon. Both Sony & Canon are behind Fujifilm when it comes to AWB.

A7II, Sigma 50 Art at f1.6, manual YongNuo flash bounched off the ceiling. "Standard" jpeg profile. No post processing.

nnowak wrote:

lumenite wrote:

nnowak wrote:

Assume we cannibalize the full frame DPAF sensor from the 5DIV and live view AF works great. For $2000 would you prefer...

For the full frame EF-M options, assume full frame EF-M lense are introduced at the same pace as existing crop EF-M lenses.

I would like to have #2 M5 with full frame sensor (EF-M mount).

However, I can wait for several months or a year for a better price, thinking of Sony A7 or A7R's current price.

The 6D started out at $2100. After 4 years it is down to $1500. In the three years since announcement, the A7 and A7R have dropped $600 and $400 respectively.

The A7II has been around for almost two years now and the pricing has not dropped at all.

You may have quite a wait.

Camera sales are dropping like a rock.  This is probably going to mean 2 things:

1) Some great fire sales coming in the short term, but not likely on newer models.

2) Price increass in the future when the camera companies realize there is nothing they can do to stop the slide in sales and then decide to get the max dollar they can for each camera they sell.