CP4500 has a RAW mode!

Started Jan 21, 2003 | Discussions
John Ferrier Contributing Member • Posts: 582
Re: CP4500 RAW outperforms G3 RAW???

OlgaJ wrote:

IMHO, there's a big difference between having (supported by the
manufacturer and numerous other third party software) RAW
availability and usability, and one that could void your warranty.
(And I won't even get into other basic differences.)

...but I was replying to the idea that the CP4500 doesn't fit into the CP5000/CP5700 category and therefore shouldn't get the RAW capability. I'll admit that I'm still learning about this; however, it seems to me if Nikon was able to support RAW post CP5000 release, that the CP4500 could support RAW (with the same bells and whistles).

As far as warranty, well now that Nikon has my money, I'm not sure what it is worth. If the risk of this ad hoc RAW mode is low (which very well may be the case) and if I don't send my camera back to map out hot pixels (I'll use noise reduction or edit photos), then I won't be using the warranty anyway. It seems to me that the message that using RAW with the CP4500 voids the warranty is the default scare tactic (I probably would do the same). However, using this diagnostic mode with Nikon NEF software may very well be a safe mode of operation.

Now if I can just convince others, like you, to test it out, before I try it. So, I hear that the CP4500 RAW outperforms the G3 in RAW mode.

JF

Olga Johnson Forum Pro • Posts: 23,317
Re: CP4500 RAW outperforms G3 RAW???

John Ferrier wrote:

Now if I can just convince others, like you, to test it out, before
I try it. So, I hear that the CP4500 RAW outperforms the G3 in RAW
mode.

LOL! Nice try, thanks, but I think I'll pass for now.

  • Olga

 Olga Johnson's gear list:Olga Johnson's gear list
Canon EOS Rebel T4i Canon EOS Rebel SL2 Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS USM Canon G3 X Canon EOS M +14 more
Edd..Y Regular Member • Posts: 127
How about an updated on the CP4500 review with this feature??

I think an updated on the CP4500 review will be able to answer a lot of these questions. Is there any out there at the moment?

Shizhu Pan wrote:
RAW file will be half size as TIFF file, so they are of course
much larger than the largest JPG file.

The benefit is to apply EV compensation and white balance after you
had completed a shoot, more details can be resolved.

Kian Peng, Si wrote:
For those who have downloaded and used the application (RAW data in
CP4500), do you mind to tell me how is the outcome for pictures
quality?
I am not very understand the RAW Data advantages as well, what are
they? and is there any disadvanges? How big is a files compare to a
fine 4MP pictures?

AlexMld wrote:

It has been found out that Nikon has a diagnostic mode called DIAG
RAW in CP2500, CP4300, CP4500 (tested) and possibly E775, E885,
E990, E995, E5000 that allows for RAW file output. This mode can
be turned on
by a diagnostic program such as Opencam or Rawenabler. The
rawenabler is pretty straightforward - you can connect the camera
to the PC via USB, turn it on so it looks as a removable device,
launch a programm - it should identify the camera and then you can
switch raw mode on and off, turn the camera off, disconnect it and
use wherever you please.
You can find it here (along with the sources)
http://e2500.narod.ru/cpixraw.zip
According to the author the program runs under Win 2000 and XP.
In RAW DIAG mode the camera writes two files for each shot - one is
a RAW file (though it has an extension .jpg or .tif) and the second
one is a normal picture. The RAW file is NOT in the .nef format. I
have contacted David Coffin ( http://www2.primushost.com/~dcoffin/ )
and he has added CP4500 RAW file support to his beta version of CRW
converter:
http://alexmld.narod.ru/crw.rar
He will also include CP4300 and CP2500 RAW file support in his next
version of CRW.
Also the RAW-> nef converter is under development.

Alex Molodozhenov

John Ferrier Contributing Member • Posts: 582
Re: Knew you wouldn't fall for a subtlety...

OlgaJ wrote:

LOL! Nice try, thanks, but I think I'll pass for now.

...so I went with the blatant--something that may not be true. May in the sense that Mike Rubin uses the word "may" (may result in violations of the software agreements). I want quotations from the Digital Millenium Act. And to turn the tables around a bit, did Nikon take enough actions to prevent others from learning how to enable the diagnostic mode. It seems like some violated a trade secrets policy (rather than reverse engineering or copyright potection).

But you haven't ruled CP4500 RAW out yet (still waiting for a few more of these great results to post). I haven't ruled it in yet.

Since Nikon has already gotten our money, I guess that they could only be working for our future business. I don't think that enabling RAW on the CP4500 will hurt their business (on the contrary). Especially, since there problably is nothing that they can do to improve the low light focus with a firmware upgrade.

Lastly, I though your reply would have been "you wish". It would be nice, yet, but I don't care about it too much.

Take care: ).

JF

Ron T Senior Member • Posts: 1,712
Re: CP4500 RAW outperforms G3 RAW???

Hi John,

The 5000 did not originally support RAW, the last firmware upgrade v1.7 in September 2002, added RAW support and improved the AF. So there's still hope for the 4500 in regards to both RAW support and AF improvements. I understand there is already a v1.2 installed in new the 4500 cameras.

Regards,
Ron T

John Ferrier wrote:

OlgaJ wrote:

IMHO, there's a big difference between having (supported by the
manufacturer and numerous other third party software) RAW
availability and usability, and one that could void your warranty.
(And I won't even get into other basic differences.)

...but I was replying to the idea that the CP4500 doesn't fit into
the CP5000/CP5700 category and therefore shouldn't get the RAW
capability. I'll admit that I'm still learning about this; however,
it seems to me if Nikon was able to support RAW post CP5000
release, that the CP4500 could support RAW (with the same bells and
whistles).

As far as warranty, well now that Nikon has my money, I'm not sure
what it is worth. If the risk of this ad hoc RAW mode is low (which
very well may be the case) and if I don't send my camera back to
map out hot pixels (I'll use noise reduction or edit photos), then
I won't be using the warranty anyway. It seems to me that the
message that using RAW with the CP4500 voids the warranty is the
default scare tactic (I probably would do the same). However, using
this diagnostic mode with Nikon NEF software may very well be a
safe mode of operation.

Now if I can just convince others, like you, to test it out, before
I try it. So, I hear that the CP4500 RAW outperforms the G3 in RAW
mode.

JF

MariusN Forum Member • Posts: 84
To Alex: any news about the bad pixel mapping?

Alex,

First thank you very much for the useful information that you shared here.

Do you have any other information available about how to enable the automatic bad pixel mapping in the Coolpix cameras?

Not necessarily a finished program, just any kind of information and/or documentation that could help solving this issue once for all.

I personally have a Coolpix 995 that had bad CCD pixels since it was new. Nikon needed over 4 weeks to map them while the camera was still under warranty. Just for two days after my camera was free of any bad pixels then another one surfaced. Just as the warranty ended other groups appeared - all being stuck at any shutter speed. Now I have the option to send it again to Nikon and not just pay for this service but, worse, wait another month without the camera. This is not the first Coolpix that I have with bad CCD pixels - two 990 that I had the chance to use before this 995 had the same problem, on the same scale. Looking over the discussion forums over the Internet it appears that there are so many other upset Nikon customers in this position, having to pay and wait weeks for a trivial Software fix that in my personal opinion Nikon should have made public for any user to do on its own, if not to make it as a feature into the Coolpix cameras firmware. I am referring to executing the automatic pixel mapping procedure.

Please, any help on this issue will be GREATLY appreciated - and I am sure that not just by me.

Thank you,
Marius

Jaime Regular Member • Posts: 301
Raw mode in 4500, having problems

Today, I spent a lot of time taking pictures with my 4500 with the raw mode inabled, after 10 shots, I got an error message, it said samething like this "cannot read form card", I turned off the camera and turned on again... I kept taking pictures with no errors... when I put my CF card to my reader I found out that there was a lot of folders with strange characters and garbage. I thought it might be my CF card, so I switched to other card and took more shots, same error, same folders with garbage.
I turned off the raw mode and the error didn't come up again.

What I have noted is that when I turn on/off raw mode, I cannot turn off my camera, I have to unplug it and then it switches off, I have tried in my laptop and I have the same problem.
Any ideas?, somebody having the same problems?

AlexMld wrote:

It has been found out that Nikon has a diagnostic mode called DIAG
RAW in CP2500, CP4300, CP4500 (tested) and possibly E775, E885,
E990, E995, E5000 that allows for RAW file output. This mode can
be turned on
by a diagnostic program such as Opencam or Rawenabler. The
rawenabler is pretty straightforward - you can connect the camera
to the PC via USB, turn it on so it looks as a removable device,
launch a programm - it should identify the camera and then you can
switch raw mode on and off, turn the camera off, disconnect it and
use wherever you please.
You can find it here (along with the sources)
http://e2500.narod.ru/cpixraw.zip
According to the author the program runs under Win 2000 and XP.
In RAW DIAG mode the camera writes two files for each shot - one is
a RAW file (though it has an extension .jpg or .tif) and the second
one is a normal picture. The RAW file is NOT in the .nef format. I
have contacted David Coffin ( http://www2.primushost.com/~dcoffin/ )
and he has added CP4500 RAW file support to his beta version of CRW
converter:
http://alexmld.narod.ru/crw.rar
He will also include CP4300 and CP2500 RAW file support in his next
version of CRW.
Also the RAW-> nef converter is under development.

Alex Molodozhenov

dh3x Junior Member • Posts: 28
Re: raw2nef batch conversion

What i did was edited the windows registry to have a command when i right click a JPG file so I can invoke the raw2nef program directly. Then i just highlight all the JPG raw files i want to convert and do a right click to convert all of them at once. Here's a couple of pic describing what I did:

Just reply here if you have any query. I think you can deduce what I did from the two pictures above. Good luck!

It would be nice if someone with programming skills made a GUI
program to make batch conversions...

AlexMld wrote:

Here is the first version of the RAW to NEF converter:
http://e2500.narod.ru/raw2nef.htm

Alex

-- hide signature --

Nikon Coolpix 4500
Speed Light SB-22s

John Ferrier Contributing Member • Posts: 582
Re: Too Cool! (nt) JF

dh3x wrote:

I think you can deduce what I did from the two pictures above.

dh3x Junior Member • Posts: 28
Re: Raw mode in 4500, having problems

You need to stop the USB device by clicking on the icon in your systray before you can turn off the camera.

jaime wrote:
Today, I spent a lot of time taking pictures with my 4500 with the
raw mode inabled, after 10 shots, I got an error message, it said
samething like this "cannot read form card", I turned off the
camera and turned on again... I kept taking pictures with no
errors... when I put my CF card to my reader I found out that there
was a lot of folders with strange characters and garbage. I thought
it might be my CF card, so I switched to other card and took more
shots, same error, same folders with garbage.
I turned off the raw mode and the error didn't come up again.
What I have noted is that when I turn on/off raw mode, I cannot
turn off my camera, I have to unplug it and then it switches off, I
have tried in my laptop and I have the same problem.
Any ideas?, somebody having the same problems?

AlexMld wrote:

It has been found out that Nikon has a diagnostic mode called DIAG
RAW in CP2500, CP4300, CP4500 (tested) and possibly E775, E885,
E990, E995, E5000 that allows for RAW file output. This mode can
be turned on
by a diagnostic program such as Opencam or Rawenabler. The
rawenabler is pretty straightforward - you can connect the camera
to the PC via USB, turn it on so it looks as a removable device,
launch a programm - it should identify the camera and then you can
switch raw mode on and off, turn the camera off, disconnect it and
use wherever you please.
You can find it here (along with the sources)
http://e2500.narod.ru/cpixraw.zip
According to the author the program runs under Win 2000 and XP.
In RAW DIAG mode the camera writes two files for each shot - one is
a RAW file (though it has an extension .jpg or .tif) and the second
one is a normal picture. The RAW file is NOT in the .nef format. I
have contacted David Coffin ( http://www2.primushost.com/~dcoffin/ )
and he has added CP4500 RAW file support to his beta version of CRW
converter:
http://alexmld.narod.ru/crw.rar
He will also include CP4300 and CP2500 RAW file support in his next
version of CRW.
Also the RAW-> nef converter is under development.

Alex Molodozhenov

-- hide signature --

Nikon Coolpix 4500
Speed Light SB-22s

John Ferrier Contributing Member • Posts: 582
Re: Exactly.

dh3x wrote:

You need to stop the USB device by clicking on the icon in your
systray before you can turn off the camera.

Like we are supposed to do anyway (with mass storage mode).

JF

Edd..Y Regular Member • Posts: 127
Re: Raw mode in 4500, having problems

jaime wrote:

Today, I spent a lot of time taking pictures with my 4500 with the
raw mode inabled, after 10 shots, I got an error message, it said
samething like this "cannot read form card", I turned off the
camera and turned on again... I kept taking pictures with no
errors... when I put my CF card to my reader I found out that there
was a lot of folders with strange characters and garbage. I thought
it might be my CF card, so I switched to other card and took more
shots, same error, same folders with garbage.
I turned off the raw mode and the error didn't come up again.
What I have noted is that when I turn on/off raw mode, I cannot
turn off my camera, I have to unplug it and then it switches off, I
have tried in my laptop and I have the same problem.
Any ideas?, somebody having the same problems?

Out of curiousity, I tried it myself. I only have problems when I reached the last shot and there was not enf. memory. When I switch if off and turn it on again, it simply says OUT OF MEMORY.

I am using a Ridata 128 card and using FINE mode at the maximum size with RAW on, I can have 35 shots max. Only the raw mode for the last shot was recorded as there was not enf memory left.

I also tried switching off the RAW mode and the camera worked just as before.

No garbage like what you said. Or was it you did not convert the RAW files using the convertors mentioned?
Could be something wrong with your card or carmera...

just a tot....
Cheers,
Edd..

Jaime Regular Member • Posts: 301
Thanks!!!!!!!!!! (nt)

Thanks!!!!!...

dh3x wrote:
What i did was edited the windows registry to have a command when i
right click a JPG file so I can invoke the raw2nef program
directly. Then i just highlight all the JPG raw files i want to
convert and do a right click to convert all of them at once.
Here's a couple of pic describing what I did:

Just reply here if you have any query. I think you can deduce what
I did from the two pictures above. Good luck!

It would be nice if someone with programming skills made a GUI
program to make batch conversions...

AlexMld wrote:

Here is the first version of the RAW to NEF converter:
http://e2500.narod.ru/raw2nef.htm

Alex

-- hide signature --

Nikon Coolpix 4500
Speed Light SB-22s

Jaime Regular Member • Posts: 301
Re: Raw mode in 4500, having problems

Well, I think I had 2 defective cards, the weird thing is that they only fail when using the raw mode, if used in normal mode, they don't fail to function.
I'll have to do further testing...

jaime wrote:
Today, I spent a lot of time taking pictures with my 4500 with the
raw mode inabled, after 10 shots, I got an error message, it said
samething like this "cannot read form card", I turned off the
camera and turned on again... I kept taking pictures with no
errors... when I put my CF card to my reader I found out that there
was a lot of folders with strange characters and garbage. I thought
it might be my CF card, so I switched to other card and took more
shots, same error, same folders with garbage.
I turned off the raw mode and the error didn't come up again.
What I have noted is that when I turn on/off raw mode, I cannot
turn off my camera, I have to unplug it and then it switches off, I
have tried in my laptop and I have the same problem.
Any ideas?, somebody having the same problems?

AlexMld wrote:

It has been found out that Nikon has a diagnostic mode called DIAG
RAW in CP2500, CP4300, CP4500 (tested) and possibly E775, E885,
E990, E995, E5000 that allows for RAW file output. This mode can
be turned on
by a diagnostic program such as Opencam or Rawenabler. The
rawenabler is pretty straightforward - you can connect the camera
to the PC via USB, turn it on so it looks as a removable device,
launch a programm - it should identify the camera and then you can
switch raw mode on and off, turn the camera off, disconnect it and
use wherever you please.
You can find it here (along with the sources)
http://e2500.narod.ru/cpixraw.zip
According to the author the program runs under Win 2000 and XP.
In RAW DIAG mode the camera writes two files for each shot - one is
a RAW file (though it has an extension .jpg or .tif) and the second
one is a normal picture. The RAW file is NOT in the .nef format. I
have contacted David Coffin ( http://www2.primushost.com/~dcoffin/ )
and he has added CP4500 RAW file support to his beta version of CRW
converter:
http://alexmld.narod.ru/crw.rar
He will also include CP4300 and CP2500 RAW file support in his next
version of CRW.
Also the RAW-> nef converter is under development.

Alex Molodozhenov

Jaime Regular Member • Posts: 301
Thanks (nt)

John Ferrier wrote:

dh3x wrote:

You need to stop the USB device by clicking on the icon in your
systray before you can turn off the camera.

Like we are supposed to do anyway (with mass storage mode).

JF

charlie wallace Senior Member • Posts: 1,005
Re: CP4500 RAW - Nikon's Reaction

Larry Berman wrote:

The word from Mike Rubin, the CoolPix product manager:

Anyone doing this will be voiding the warranty of the camera. Also,
it may be considered reverse engineering and may result in
violations of the software agreements.

Larry Berman

Reverse Engineering by itself is not illegal, its been proven in court a few times ( at least in the USA ) Fair use laws apply, its permissable to discover the protocols for such devices and make products, and even make a competing product, so as long as it doesnt infringe. Especially if its not
for profit.

Sega vs Accolade
Atari vs Nintendo

Its an empty threat, and one thats typical, all they can do is take away warranty privs.

The only way they could claim problems, is DMCA which does't cover it.

Plus the guys in russia, so its pointless anyway, its only the US that has restrictive laws ( but you can still do it )

Its not covered by the shrink wrap licencse, since (A) there isnt one on the camera, and (B) you can download the firmware without ever actually having the camera then proceed to disassemble it.

gune New Member • Posts: 19
Re: CP4500 has a RAW mode! CP 950 ?

I tried with my Coolpix 950 and ID changed using Photopc and serial cable How can I know whether I have done. I try to change the qulity of image but no luck only HI Fine normal vga etc no RAW modes avilable in M-REC mode.

eber wrote:

AlexMld wrote:

It has been found out that Nikon has a diagnostic mode called DIAG
RAW in CP2500, CP4300, CP4500 (tested) and possibly E775, E885,

...

According to the author the program runs under Win 2000 and XP.

For those who haven't got this Windows thingy or not the required
version, you can do the same thing by changing camera id from
'NIKON DIGITAL CAMERA' to 'DIAG RAW' with any program that can do
this.

For example using photopc just type : photopc id "DIAG RAW", and
that's it.
Just tried this with CP995.

Thanks to AlexMld for letting us know and to the author for
including source code.

Please notice that diag raw mode is not cancelled whan camera is
shutdown, you have to put back default id for the camera to operate
in normal mode again.

E-

OP AlexY Forum Member • Posts: 98
Re: To Alex: any news about the bad pixel mapping?

OK. I will just give you what I know about it:

The USB protocol which PC uses to talk to E995/E2500/E4300/E4500/E5000 (Sierra Imaging) is described here:
http://www.math.ualberta.ca/imaging/protocol.html

The protocol is implemented through IOCTL_SCSI_PASS_THROUGH_DIRECT calls, some examples are here (the samples are request for battery charge level and firmware version)
http://e2500.narod.ru/uploader.htm#protocol

You can find the program to read the defective pixels map here (tested with E2500 and probably is same for others). The command to read defective pixels is 06-16-03. The comand to refresh the map is 06-00 so the procedure would be almost same with the difference that you won't need to read anything back.
You can also erase the map by 06-16 command but i think you don't have to.

You also have a source of the code to work with the USB in cpixraw.zip which could be helpful.
You might want to save the pages as they might not be available in future.

I think you need to turn the camera on and give it some time (10-15 mins) to warm up before you refresh the deadpixel map.

Also besides DIAG RAW mode there are DIAG modes ERASE and FORMAT and my guess is that the first one erases the map and the second one refreshes it but I haven't tried it so be cautious.

Alex

Marius N wrote:

Alex,

First thank you very much for the useful information that you
shared here.

Do you have any other information available about how to enable the
automatic bad pixel mapping in the Coolpix cameras?

Not necessarily a finished program, just any kind of information
and/or documentation that could help solving this issue once for
all.

I personally have a Coolpix 995 that had bad CCD pixels since it
was new. Nikon needed over 4 weeks to map them while the camera was
still under warranty. Just for two days after my camera was free of
any bad pixels then another one surfaced. Just as the warranty
ended other groups appeared - all being stuck at any shutter speed.
Now I have the option to send it again to Nikon and not just pay
for this service but, worse, wait another month without the camera.
This is not the first Coolpix that I have with bad CCD pixels - two
990 that I had the chance to use before this 995 had the same
problem, on the same scale. Looking over the discussion forums over
the Internet it appears that there are so many other upset Nikon
customers in this position, having to pay and wait weeks for a
trivial Software fix that in my personal opinion Nikon should have
made public for any user to do on its own, if not to make it as a
feature into the Coolpix cameras firmware. I am referring to
executing the automatic pixel mapping procedure.

Please, any help on this issue will be GREATLY appreciated - and I
am sure that not just by me.

Thank you,
Marius

OP AlexY Forum Member • Posts: 98
Re: To Alex: any news about the bad pixel mapping?

forgot to include one link (reading the map):
http://e2500.narod.ru/ccd_defect.htm

DanVac New Member • Posts: 15
Re: having problems - my findings

I have the same problem on my Nikon 995
1. enable raw mode and disconnect camera from PC
2. format CF card
3. shoot some photos and error and garbage are there
4. format CF card again
5. shoot some photos and there is no error no garbage

It's interesting isn't it?

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