Is this a problem with my G7x mark ii? Blurred edges?

Started Oct 12, 2016 | Discussions
Juggernaut122
Juggernaut122 Contributing Member • Posts: 813
Is this a problem with my G7x mark ii? Blurred edges?
1

Hi,

Is this a problem with my camera or is this the way all G7xii"s are setup?

From what I can tell, when the camera is zoomed out, the periphery gets blurred - sort of a fish-eye effect.  I did not really notice it when taking other types of pictures, but it really jumped out at me when taking pictures of the flowers.  These flowers are set up like a half circle - so the flowers on the periphery are actually slightly further away from the camera than the ones in the center.

I was not sure if this was an aperture depth of field effect, or a lens problem or a lens characteristic.  But for the 1st 2 images, I put the aperture to f/8, but in the last image it was f/2.5.  I think the last image is what would be expected, but in the first 2 with the f/8, I was not expecting the results.

Any thoughts?

Is this a problem with my camera & should I exchange for a new one?

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Digital Nigel Forum Pro • Posts: 15,659
Re: Is this a problem with my G7x mark ii? Blurred edges?

Juggernaut122 wrote:

Hi,

Is this a problem with my camera or is this the way all G7xii"s are setup?

From what I can tell, when the camera is zoomed out, the periphery gets blurred - sort of a fish-eye effect. I did not really notice it when taking other types of pictures, but it really jumped out at me when taking pictures of the flowers. These flowers are set up like a half circle - so the flowers on the periphery are actually slightly further away from the camera than the ones in the center.

I was not sure if this was an aperture depth of field effect, or a lens problem or a lens characteristic. But for the 1st 2 images, I put the aperture to f/8, but in the last image it was f/2.5. I think the last image is what would be expected, but in the first 2 with the f/8, I was not expecting the results.

Any thoughts?

Is this a problem with my camera & should I exchange for a new one?

It's the same with all G7X and G5X cameras. At the widest, the image is very distorted and doesn't cover the sensor, so heavy lens geometry corrections are applied. This blurs the edges of the image:

DPR test image, with no lens corrections.

After processing (in DxO) the corrected image looks like this:

After lens geometry correction

The distortions have gone, but the edges are blurred. Overall sharpness is mediocre. It's worse if the lens is wide open, but even stopped down, IQ is poor at 24mm equiv.

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Juggernaut122
OP Juggernaut122 Contributing Member • Posts: 813
Re: Is this a problem with my G7x mark ii? Blurred edges?

Digital Nigel wrote:

It's the same with all G7X and G5X cameras. At the widest, the image is very distorted and doesn't cover the sensor, so heavy lens geometry corrections are applied. This blurs the edges of the image:

DPR test image, with no lens corrections.

After processing (in DxO) the corrected image looks like this:

After lens geometry correction

The distortions have gone, but the edges are blurred. Overall sharpness is mediocre. It's worse if the lens is wide open, but even stopped down, IQ is poor at 24mm equiv.

Yikes!

Wow.

Will need to think about if that is acceptable for a $700 camera!
None of my older (and cheaper) Point & shoot cameras nor DSLR have this issue.

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Digital Nigel Forum Pro • Posts: 15,659
Re: Is this a problem with my G7x mark ii? Blurred edges?

Juggernaut122 wrote:

Digital Nigel wrote:

It's the same with all G7X and G5X cameras. At the widest, the image is very distorted and doesn't cover the sensor, so heavy lens geometry corrections are applied. This blurs the edges of the image:

DPR test image, with no lens corrections.

After processing (in DxO) the corrected image looks like this:

After lens geometry correction

The distortions have gone, but the edges are blurred. Overall sharpness is mediocre. It's worse if the lens is wide open, but even stopped down, IQ is poor at 24mm equiv.

Yikes!

Wow.

Will need to think about if that is acceptable for a $700 camera!
None of my older (and cheaper) Point & shoot cameras nor DSLR have this issue.

It's not uncommon for pocket-sized 1" sensor camera lenses to distort quite a bit at wide angles, but this one is unusually bad. It's an ambitious 4:1 very compact zoom that's very compromised at the wide end. Sony's equivalent RX100 cameras only have a 3:1 zoom, which means they're less compromised, as can be seen in this uncorrected DPR test shot:

RX100 test shot, without lens geometry correction.

And after correction:

RX100, after lens geometry correction

As can be seen, much less correction is needed, and the end result is much sharper.

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Juggernaut122
OP Juggernaut122 Contributing Member • Posts: 813
Re: Is this a problem with my G7x mark ii? Blurred edges?
1

Digital Nigel wrote:

As can be seen, much less correction is needed, and the end result is much sharper.

Hi Nigel,

Thanks for the images.

I think this may be a show-stopper for me - I can only imagine how many people will have their heads distorted and blurred out!

Maybe I need to go with the Sony Rx-100 - just was not planning to spend that much money - they seem greatly over-priced.

Thanks!

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John McCormack
John McCormack Veteran Member • Posts: 6,827
Re: Is this a problem with my G7x mark ii? Blurred edges?
1

Not to be flaming anyone or any camera but one reason I've held onto my Fujifilm XQ2 (2/3" XT Trans sensor, 25-100mm f/1.8-4.9)  is that Fuji listens to its customers. I can shoot RAW in any mode, has good DR and the corners/edges are very good in terms of sharpness and distortion - at least to my eye. The camera is tiny and costs under $300. now. What's not to like?

Juggernaut122 wrote:

Digital Nigel wrote:

It's the same with all G7X and G5X cameras. At the widest, the image is very distorted and doesn't cover the sensor, so heavy lens geometry corrections are applied. This blurs the edges of the image:

fter processing (in DxO) the corrected image looks like this:

The distortions have gone, but the edges are blurred. Overall sharpness is mediocre. It's worse if the lens is wide open, but even stopped down, IQ is poor at 24mm equiv.

Yikes!

Wow.

Will need to think about if that is acceptable for a $700 camera!
None of my older (and cheaper) Point & shoot cameras nor DSLR have this issue.

G-D Contributing Member • Posts: 711
Re: Is this a problem with my G7x mark ii? Blurred edges?

Compare the pictures you posted here to the ones in the G7X gallery here on dpreview.com or any other review site. Yours look totally different, for some reason.

requa
requa Contributing Member • Posts: 839
Re: Is this a problem with my G7x mark ii? Blurred edges?
1

In addition to the known corner softness of these cameras, I suspect DOF is contributing heavily to the blurriness in the first two photos. Remember that a 1" sensor is going to have a significantly shallower DOF at the same aperture setting when compared to a smaller sensor in other P&S cameras. Your DSLR presumably has better glass and is able to handle this better with its larger sensor.

To see how much of this is coming from shallow DOF rather than corner softness, try taking photos in similar conditions and settings but of a flat surface such as a brick wall. Bear in mind that the subject captured in the corners of an image of even a flat surface are much farther from the focal plane than those in the center (basic geometry). Focusing on the near point of a spherical subject only makes it worse.

One option to try with the existing subject is to back up and zoom in to fill the frame to see whether this improves the DOF issue as well as the corner softness, as many have reported.

Dan

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Juggernaut122
OP Juggernaut122 Contributing Member • Posts: 813
Re: Is this a problem with my G7x mark ii? Blurred edges?

requa wrote:

In addition to the known corner softness of these cameras, I suspect DOF is contributing heavily to the blurriness in the first two photos. Remember that a 1" sensor is going to have a significantly shallower DOF at the same aperture setting when compared to a smaller sensor in other P&S cameras. Your DSLR presumably has better glass and is able to handle this better with its larger sensor.

To see how much of this is coming from shallow DOF rather than corner softness, try taking photos in similar conditions and settings but of a flat surface such as a brick wall. Bear in mind that the subject captured in the corners of an image of even a flat surface are much farther from the focal plane than those in the center (basic geometry). Focusing on the near point of a spherical subject only makes it worse.

One option to try with the existing subject is to back up and zoom in to fill the frame to see whether this improves the DOF issue as well as the corner softness, as many have reported.

Dan

Hi Dan,

Yes, if I back up and then zoom in, then everything comes into focus better - presumably because he smaller aperture means that all parts of the sensor are covered and no need to adjust the image?

I tested this out with a sheet of text, and the text at the corners is very smudged and out of focus.

To me, to call the edges "soft" is a significant understatement - probably not very noticeable when taking a landscape, but might be a significant image quality hit in other situations.

Thanks!

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Juggernaut122
OP Juggernaut122 Contributing Member • Posts: 813
Re: Is this a problem with my G7x mark ii? Blurred edges?

G-D wrote:

Compare the pictures you posted here to the ones in the G7X gallery here on dpreview.com or any other review site. Yours look totally different, for some reason.

Hi,

I don't seem to be able to find many images with the lens completely zoomed out - most are zoomed in significantly, where I also do not have any issues.

Thanks.

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Digital Nigel Forum Pro • Posts: 15,659
Re: Is this a problem with my G7x mark ii? Blurred edges?

Juggernaut122 wrote:

G-D wrote:

Compare the pictures you posted here to the ones in the G7X gallery here on dpreview.com or any other review site. Yours look totally different, for some reason.

Hi,

I don't seem to be able to find many images with the lens completely zoomed out - most are zoomed in significantly, where I also do not have any issues.

Yes, the problem is mainly at 24mm equiv (8.8mm). Omce you zoom in even a little, the problem goes away. And it's much worse at f/1.8, so if I do use it at the widest angle, I always stop down to at least f/3.2.  I was surprised to see that you had it even at f/8; by then, diffraction effects are kicking in, reducing image sharpness all very.  Like most lenses, this one is best near f/5.6.

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0lf
0lf Senior Member • Posts: 1,246
Re: Is this a problem with my G7x mark ii? Blurred edges?

You have to keep in mind the G7x is a DSLR + kit zoom in a pocket, so there is some compromises.

If, as you said, the softness is not really noticeable in other kind of shots (landscape, ...), and because for this kind of shot it is easy to zoom in a bit, it does not sound like a major limitation.

What is the distance between the flowers and the camera ? I never seen such severe blur from mine, but may be I use it differently? I suspect it is a combination of field curvature and oposite curvature of the flower "surface", plus some corner softness at wide angle.

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Hinder Contributing Member • Posts: 819
Re: Is this a problem with my G7x mark ii? Blurred edges?
1

Wow, that's nasty!  I was going to buy a G5X but I don't think so anymore.

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Juggernaut122
OP Juggernaut122 Contributing Member • Posts: 813
Re: Is this a problem with my G7x mark ii? Blurred edges?

0lf wrote:

You have to keep in mind the G7x is a DSLR + kit zoom in a pocket, so there is some compromises.

If, as you said, the softness is not really noticeable in other kind of shots (landscape, ...), and because for this kind of shot it is easy to zoom in a bit, it does not sound like a major limitation.

What is the distance between the flowers and the camera ? I never seen such severe blur from mine, but may be I use it differently? I suspect it is a combination of field curvature and oposite curvature of the flower "surface", plus some corner softness at wide angle.

Hi,

I was about 1.5 feet away from the flowers.  If I go back enough and zoom in to near max, then the problem goes away.  Yes part of it is the aperture and part of it is the shape of the flowers in the pot, but part of it is also the lens issue as none of my other cameras have this issue (as mentioned already).  It seems to be that it was demonstrated above as to why this is happening.

I will test a bit more, but there is a high likelihood I will send this back.  At least with the P7700, I didn't have to worry about regular day-time shots coming out distorted - it just can't do very nice shots in low light (which the G7xii can - minus the distortion).

Thanks

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Lindsay D Contributing Member • Posts: 675
Re: Is this a problem with my G7x mark ii? Blurred edges?
1

I have a G5X and on close inspection I see some edge softening at the widest settings, which is expected. However I haven't seen anything like the OP's pictures - there is definitely something wrong. I would advise swapping the camera for another one. Those pictures are plain weird - assuming they are like that straight out of the camera and not the result of processing software oddities.

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RAW83 New Member • Posts: 4
Re: Is this a problem with my G7x mark ii? Blurred edges?

I found it interesting that having the camera on Dynamic IS 1 crops the image (Dynamic IS 2 doesn't). Maybe see if having Dynamic IS "off" or at Dynamic IS "2" fixes the issue (since then the image won't be slightly cropped due to the way the it handles stabilization). Probably won't fix your issue but worth a try...

Dynamic IS 1: Crops image but best image stabilization

Dynamic IS 2: Doesn't crop image but has image stabilization (which isn't as good as 1)

Dynamic IS Off: Obvious...

larry Contributing Member • Posts: 889
Re: Is this a problem with my G7x mark ii? Blurred edges?

RAW83 wrote:

I found it interesting that having the camera on Dynamic IS 1 crops the image (Dynamic IS 2 doesn't). Maybe see if having Dynamic IS "off" or at Dynamic IS "2" fixes the issue (since then the image won't be slightly cropped due to the way the it handles stabilization). Probably won't fix your issue but worth a try...

Dynamic IS 1: Crops image but best image stabilization

Dynamic IS 2: Doesn't crop image but has image stabilization (which isn't as good as 1)

Dynamic IS Off: Obvious...

I think Dyn IS is just for movies?

Juggernaut122
OP Juggernaut122 Contributing Member • Posts: 813
Re: Is this a problem with my G7x mark ii? Blurred edges?

Lindsay D wrote:

I have a G5X and on close inspection I see some edge softening at the widest settings, which is expected. However I haven't seen anything like the OP's pictures - there is definitely something wrong. I would advise swapping the camera for another one. Those pictures are plain weird - assuming they are like that straight out of the camera and not the result of processing software oddities.

Hi,

Those pictures are straight out the camera.

I plan to return the camera for an exchange.

I am a little concerned over-all, since I am finding hard to justify spending $700 on a camera that warps the edges of the images (even if it is less so with a different sample).

Would having a smaller lens or a larger sensor have prevented this problem?  Is it just a poor design?

Thanks

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0lf
0lf Senior Member • Posts: 1,246
Re: Is this a problem with my G7x mark ii? Blurred edges?
2

Juggernaut122 wrote:

Lindsay D wrote:

I have a G5X and on close inspection I see some edge softening at the widest settings, which is expected. However I haven't seen anything like the OP's pictures - there is definitely something wrong. I would advise swapping the camera for another one. Those pictures are plain weird - assuming they are like that straight out of the camera and not the result of processing software oddities.

Hi,

Those pictures are straight out the camera.

I plan to return the camera for an exchange.

I am a little concerned over-all, since I am finding hard to justify spending $700 on a camera that warps the edges of the images (even if it is less so with a different sample).

Would having a smaller lens or a larger sensor have prevented this problem? Is it just a poor design?

Thanks

I don't think it is poor design. Compromises are mandatory on such small camera and Canon thought this shooting condition to be not important...  and IMHO they are totally right.

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Juggernaut122
OP Juggernaut122 Contributing Member • Posts: 813
Re: Is this a problem with my G7x mark ii? Blurred edges?

Digital Nigel wrote:

Juggernaut122 wrote:

Digital Nigel wrote:

It's the same with all G7X and G5X cameras. At the widest, the image is very distorted and doesn't cover the sensor, so heavy lens geometry corrections are applied. This blurs the edges of the image:

As can be seen, much less correction is needed, and the end result is much sharper.

Hi Nigel,
It is known at what mm focal length the distortions will go away completely?

I can test it out myself, but if this is known information already that would save me some time.

Thanks!

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