When will the MP war stop ?

Started Sep 22, 2016 | Discussions
starwolfy Senior Member • Posts: 1,318
When will the MP war stop ?
5

50Mp, 75Mp, 100Mp...seriously...when will this marketing gimmik stop ?

I don't understand where does this crazyness for higher resolution comes from.

It seems marketers have been concentrating on this feature as the only numerical advantage they can use to base their marketing strategy on.

What is scary is all these so-called photography enthousiasts that are jumping in this entirely. I am amazed to see the amount of people that are sharing their frustration that their favorite brand X, Y or Z didn't bring a >50Mp sensor camera etc.This is all sillyness.

Such sensors are totally useless for 99% of users. Pro's have been printing billboards with way less resolution for decades ! Just wondering what kind of amateur may need 100Mp sensor resolution ? If you need so...just buy a microscope.

The funny thing with this is that after buying such camera you are good for :

- Buy a computer fast enough to hold the editing of such big files

- Buy more storage space

- Buy a new screen

- Change all of your lenses...if not you are not going to benefit of such Mp...just the contrary

- What about sharing your work ? Email anyone ? Good luck with such files...and welcome back to reality with the need to compress your work and downsize it.

Frankly...marketers are thanking you for this

I don't want that 50Mp cameras become standard because I do not want that pixel pipers win the war...

Resolution is a thing...but hey...where is the magic ?

I hope Leica keeps cool about it just as they did with the last generation M and SL.

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jeff hladun
jeff hladun Veteran Member • Posts: 3,215
Some thoughts...
3

I attended Martin Parr's curated exhibit of foreign photographers' interpretation of England back in March, at the Barbican Centre in London. One of the photographers shown was Parr's associate and good friend, Bruce Gilden. In the Gilden collection were metre high, close-up, full-facial portraits. One of them was of a heavily made-up woman. Not only could I see her facial hairs, not only could I see make-up on these hairs, but I could see clumps of make-up on individual hairs!

I realized then and there how much pixel-peeping resolution could contain an allowance for narrative response for the viewer. I've been smitten by as-high-as-possible resolution ever since, and it was the reason I chose the Canon 5DSr. Some of my street photography technique entails getting as many elements as possible into the frame. While 50MP resolution is served best by using a tripod - something by the way, that any camera would benefit from! - there are some street pictures I've made that tell better stories, with increased resolution.

I've been exceedingly happy with the 5DSr. It should be mentioned that Gilden uses the Leica S2 for these full face portraits...but the 5DSr is much more affordable. And lighter!

Hope this helps.

JT26 Veteran Member • Posts: 3,229
Re: When will the MP war stop ?
3

I don't disagree at all. I will admit though I have an A7RII and I love the file quality. My three lens kit is a Contax 28 F2. 50 Smilux. 90 Summicron. Couldn't be happier.

But yeah..... The incredible thing on the Sony forum is people are dissapointed that there isn't a new A7iii or replacement A7RII. A camera that has been out for a year... and is already class leading.

When those 100mp sensors arrive it'll still be the same cat dog house wall tree that gets photographed. Sigh

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Irakly Shanidze
Irakly Shanidze Veteran Member • Posts: 6,344
Re: Some thoughts...
8

Let me tell you a secret... frame size matters more than megapixel count. If you want clumps of makeup on individual hairs, go get medium format camera.

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jeff hladun
jeff hladun Veteran Member • Posts: 3,215
Re: Some thoughts...

Not too sure about my math:

The Leica S sensor is 45mm x 30mm, with 37MB,

The Canon 5DS (r) is 24mm x 36mm, with 50MB,

The Leica sensor is 60% larger in physical dimension; the 5DS has 33% (+/-) more pixels,

Image size of the Leica S is 7,500 by 5,000; the Canon 5DS is 8,600 x 5,800.

Seems to me the frame size is larger with the Canon, no?

Both produce exceptionally large files to the point that - handheld - the great equalizer for the two would be any strobe capable of a flash duration between 1/1000 and 1/5000s.

roccoriley Regular Member • Posts: 243
Re: When will the MP war stop ?
4

starwolfy wrote:

50Mp, 75Mp, 100Mp...seriously...when will this marketing gimmik stop ?

Why are you complaining?

You can make your own decision about what camera to buy.

(unknown member) Senior Member • Posts: 2,498
Re: When will the MP war stop ?
3

The number of MP required to fully-sample, say, a 35 mm image is a bit of a hot-button issue. However, even with some modest estimates you can easily get to figures over 24MP. Given that a 24MP Bayer CFA sensor has only 6M red pixels, 6M blue pixels, and 12M green pixels, you can see that there is still room for improvement before you have fully-sampled the image.

In other words there are sound reasons for increasing pixel count, rather than just being a marketing gimmick.

Joe

Nick Carrigan Regular Member • Posts: 344
Re: When will the MP war stop ?
3

No one seemed to complain about the Leica M7's pixel count?

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Irakly Shanidze
Irakly Shanidze Veteran Member • Posts: 6,344
Re: Some thoughts...
5

Have you ever shot film?
Shooting TMAX 400 on 6x4.5 medium format film produces more detailed image than 24x36mm picture shot on Agfa APX 25.

Yes, file size of a higher megapixel sensor is larger, but it does not mean that it contains more information than a physically larger sensor.

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John Gellings Veteran Member • Posts: 4,961
Re: Some thoughts...
1

Irakly Shanidze wrote:

Have you ever shot film?
Shooting TMAX 400 on 6x4.5 medium format film produces more detailed image than 24x36mm picture shot on Agfa APX 25.

Yes, file size of a higher megapixel sensor is larger, but it does not mean that it contains more information than a physically larger sensor.

Film and digital do not react the same way to enlargements though...

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DCPhotography
DCPhotography Regular Member • Posts: 161
Re: When will the MP war stop ?
1

starwolfy wrote:

50Mp, 75Mp, 100Mp...seriously...when will this marketing gimmik stop ?

When human males stop measuring their manhood with mine is bigger nonsense.

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DC

DCPhotography
DCPhotography Regular Member • Posts: 161
Re: When will the MP war stop ?
3

Anyway. EXACTLY this same stupid conversation has been going on for the last fifteen years. When will the threads about MP stop?!

LOL. And the poo-throwing continues.

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DC

Godfrey Forum Pro • Posts: 29,432
Re: When will the MP war stop ?
1

starwolfy wrote:

50Mp, 75Mp, 100Mp...seriously...when will this marketing gimmik stop ?

...

Need and/or desire for more pixel resolution isn't a marketing gimmick, but using a single point, numerical criterium as a benchmark from which to infer quality and performance is. Marketing has been doing that for a bazillion years (hyperbole intended :-)).

What to do about it? Nothing. Pick what works best for your needs and photography and ignore the noise of the forums, the number adorers. It's really not worth getting worked up about. Buy any of the Leica cameras being sold today and use it until it is worn out—you'll find yourself in a better position than trying to shout down the marketing drivel.

For my work, for my photography, I first imagined 24 MPixel resolution on 35mm FF format was the right goal in 2001. The industry has reached that with the M-P, M-D, and SL. Seeing the output from higher Mpixel resolution with 35mmFF format cameras, I see little to no actual gain in imaging quality.

G

John Gellings Veteran Member • Posts: 4,961
Re: When will the MP war stop ?
2

DCPhotography wrote:

starwolfy wrote:

50Mp, 75Mp, 100Mp...seriously...when will this marketing gimmik stop ?

When human males stop measuring their manhood with mine is bigger nonsense.

Come on man, it's not always about this... some people actually use the resolution.  I've seen huge prints in galleries and museums... not 4x6 feet, but wall sized.  Viewing in a smallish room vs. a billboard are two different viewing experiences.  We don't all photograph the same way, with the same intent, and same presentation in mind.  Plus, storage and computers are cheap these days vs. just 10 years ago.

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deednets Veteran Member • Posts: 9,318
Re: When will the MP war stop ?
3

DCPhotography wrote:

starwolfy wrote:

50Mp, 75Mp, 100Mp...seriously...when will this marketing gimmik stop ?

When human males stop measuring their manhood with mine is bigger nonsense.

You wanna make this a gender issue? I had a look at your website, because your comment intrigued me and found your windmill black and white image. Tapped on the pic to get it enlarged past this - what is it? - 320x240px ...

Maybe a tad on the simplistic side? Why on Earth would you bring this up?

I am male with a European calibration, female input into society and the arts intrigues me often more than what males do, me and my partner watched a German thriller last night directed by a woman, I thought that could be interesting - and it was!

In light of that, your somewhat post WWII comment was in my opinion not really a masterpiece of female insight.

You think my response a bit heavy handed, because your comment was a really funny joke? There is always a risk of that, when somebody takes a comment seriously.

To invert your argument here: would a female, non competitive of course, have carried on using a Mavica? 900kpx, interpolated? Google it! 😉

Deed

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H. Baasch New Member • Posts: 19
Re: When will the MP war stop ?
2

I don't even know how many megapixels my two Leicas produce. They're 16-bit, that suffices. All this chatter about more megapixels and extreme sharpness is of no interest to me, as I don't shoot for billboards, and if I should be asked to pick the 300 best photographs of all time, I doubt more than ten would be tack sharp. Bourgeois HCB was right to say that sharpness is a bourgeois concept (assuming it is understood how the word 'bourgeois' was used in surrealist circles at the time). Composition, exposure and even the type of paper used are more important than sharpness, extreme detail and, thus, megapixels, and even composition, exposure and paper type are not what makes a good photograph, it seems to me.

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too old for this Regular Member • Posts: 365
Re: When will the MP war stop ?

Nick Carrigan wrote:

No one seemed to complain about the Leica M7's pixel count?

They STILL don't

John Gellings Veteran Member • Posts: 4,961
Re: When will the MP war stop ?
1

Nick Carrigan wrote:

No one seemed to complain about the Leica M7's pixel count?

Complaining about film / developers was common when film was mainstream.

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deednets Veteran Member • Posts: 9,318
Re: When will the MP war stop ?
2

John Gellings wrote:

DCPhotography wrote:

starwolfy wrote:

50Mp, 75Mp, 100Mp...seriously...when will this marketing gimmik stop ?

When human males stop measuring their manhood with mine is bigger nonsense.

Come on man, it's not always about this... some people actually use the resolution. I've seen huge prints in galleries and museums... not 4x6 feet, but wall sized. Viewing in a smallish room vs. a billboard are two different viewing experiences. We don't all photograph the same way, with the same intent, and same presentation in mind. Plus, storage and computers are cheap these days vs. just 10 years ago.

Hehe ... the poster(s) are female!

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jeff hladun
jeff hladun Veteran Member • Posts: 3,215
Re: Some thoughts...

Irakly Shanidze wrote:

Have you ever shot film?
Shooting TMAX 400 on 6x4.5 medium format film produces more detailed image than 24x36mm picture shot on Agfa APX 25.

Yes, file size of a higher megapixel sensor is larger, but it does not mean that it contains more information than a physically larger sensor.

Of course a 645 negative will contain more information...it's three times larger than a 35mm neg. Yet, today's digital medium format sensor is only considered to be anything that is larger than a 35mm, full-frame sensor.

Using film as an analogy, comparing a Canon 5DSr sensor and file size to a Leica S sensor and file size, would be like comparing a 645 negative with 100 ASA film, to a full-frame 6x6 negative, using 160 ASA film. It's a bit of a wash between the two cameras.

The Leica S would have to have 80mp before it could best the Canon's resolution; could you imagine the price of THAT camera?

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