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E-shutter in Canon EOS M5?

Started Sep 20, 2016 | Questions
PeetieT New Member • Posts: 9
E-shutter in Canon EOS M5?

IS there an e-shutter in Canon EOS M5? Haven't seen it in the specs, so I'm guessing not.

Btw, I think a lot of people are saying it is a big disappointment, I think it is going to spur a bit of race between Sony & Canon, which is very healthy! Especially after A6300 got a bit short on new features as well (e.g. touch focus selection).

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Canon EOS M5 Sony a6300
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Vlasty Senior Member • Posts: 1,856
Re: E-shutter in Canon EOS M5?
2

PeetieT wrote:

IS there an e-shutter in Canon EOS M5? Haven't seen it in the specs, so I'm guessing not.

Btw, I think a lot of people are saying it is a big disappointment, I think it is going to spur a bit of race between Sony & Canon, which is very healthy! Especially after A6300 got a bit short on new features as well (e.g. touch focus selection).

Although my Fuji has an e-shutter I don't even recall the last time I used it. To much of an IQ hit. I guess it would be nice to have for emergencies but I won't miss it with the M. To date the only e-shutter I have ever been somewhat satisfied with with is the Nikon 1. Even then its e-shutter had issues.

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MikeJ9116 Veteran Member • Posts: 6,955
Re: E-shutter in Canon EOS M5?

PeetieT wrote:

IS there an e-shutter in Canon EOS M5? Haven't seen it in the specs, so I'm guessing not.

I am fairly sure there is no electronic shutter option.  It can't be worse than the M3's shutter.  It is loud and sounds like a something far more substantial than a shutter activating.  I have the 6D and it has a silent shutter mode and even with the mirror it is much quieter than the M3.

Btw, I think a lot of people are saying it is a big disappointment, I think it is going to spur a bit of race between Sony & Canon, which is very healthy! Especially after A6300 got a bit short on new features as well (e.g. touch focus selection).

The A6300 and M5 are really close in terms of value, IMO.  Each has features that are desirable but based one what I read I would give the edge to the M5 if 4k video is not absolutely necessary for the user.  If it is then the A6300 is the best choice.  The fact that I can say this means that Canon did a decent job with the M5.

Jefenator
Jefenator Senior Member • Posts: 2,866
Re: E-shutter in Canon EOS M5?
1

Silent shutter (or whatever they want to call it) would definitely be very nice to have. It's one of the key features I would like when I update my A7 which sometimes gets described as a "bear trap" in terms of sound. 

OTOH my original EOS M is almost "leaf shutter" quiet - one of numerous little things I really appreciate about that camera. I'd be fine with the M5 being that quiet w/ no 100% electronic option. (Silent shutter does feel weird and it degrades the IQ a bit on the Sonys...)

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Nigel Tafferham Forum Member • Posts: 59
Re: E-shutter in Canon EOS M5?

Of course ANY issue with E-shutter is implementation of the reset and read speed method & all the sensor noise reduction & down stream processing, it is NOT inherent with the concept of course.

I think what you did/have seen is that some e-shutters would only use 12 bit a/d while normal shutter used 14 bit a/d, which can/is very visible in some pics maybe even most, also on sensor noise seems effected.

I am more surprised that Sony does not have e-shutter in their recent stacked Sensors, hard to imagine why not, but then if you have issues with reading for video (rolling shutter) then it seems it is an issue of sensor read speed and processing speed which would likely affect e-shutter especially for fast FPS.

Processing in a battery/power limited device has its drawbacks/compromises, processing = power speed is directly proportional, even in the magical days of now.

Vlasty wrote:

PeetieT wrote:

IS there an e-shutter in Canon EOS M5? Haven't seen it in the specs, so I'm guessing not.

Btw, I think a lot of people are saying it is a big disappointment, I think it is going to spur a bit of race between Sony & Canon, which is very healthy! Especially after A6300 got a bit short on new features as well (e.g. touch focus selection).

Although my Fuji has an e-shutter I don't even recall the last time I used it. To much of an IQ hit. I guess it would be nice to have for emergencies but I won't miss it with the M. To date the only e-shutter I have ever been somewhat satisfied with with is the Nikon 1. Even then its e-shutter had issues.

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Michael - Visual Pursuit New Member • Posts: 22
Re: E-shutter in Canon EOS M5?

PeetieT wrote:

IS there an e-shutter in Canon EOS M5? Haven't seen it in the specs, so I'm guessing not.

Btw, I think a lot of people are saying it is a big disappointment, I think it is going to spur a bit of race between Sony & Canon, which is very healthy! Especially after A6300 got a bit short on new features as well (e.g. touch focus selection).

No E-shutter. Flash sync with "dumb" flash triggers is possible up to 1/320th.

jwilliams Veteran Member • Posts: 6,385
Re: E-shutter in Canon EOS M5?

I believe Canon uses an electronic first curtain. This means when taking the picture the exposure is started electronically and then the shutter is closed, ending the exposure. This means only 1 movement of the shutter at the end of the exposure. Many mirrorless cameras close the shutter, open it for exposure and then close it to end exposure. Thats 3 movements. The electronic first curtain results in less mechanical noise and also less chance of the shutter causing vibrations since it only moves at the end of the exposure.

I know in the m43 cameras I have, my EM5 has the 3 movements and my GM1 uses electronic first curtain. Big difference.

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Jonathan

Helen
Helen Veteran Member • Posts: 7,606
Re: E-shutter in Canon EOS M5?
2

jwilliams wrote:

I believe Canon uses an electronic first curtain. This means when taking the picture the exposure is started electronically and then the shutter is closed, ending the exposure. This means only 1 movement of the shutter at the end of the exposure. Many mirrorless cameras close the shutter, open it for exposure and then close it to end exposure. Thats 3 movements. The electronic first curtain results in less mechanical noise and also less chance of the shutter causing vibrations since it only moves at the end of the exposure.

I know in the m43 cameras I have, my EM5 has the 3 movements and my GM1 uses electronic first curtain. Big difference.

Most of the difference you hear with the shutter on the Panasonic GM1 is actually down to the unique design of that particular shutter, which is electromagnetically-actuated and has a stepper motor controlling the blades of the shutter that form the second (and only) curtain, rather than springs and gears as is usual.  A downside of this particular design is the unusually slow travel of the curtain, hence the GM1 (and GM5's) flash sync speed of 1/50 and maximum mechanical shutter speed of 1/500.  EFCS does reduce the sound of a shutter slightly, but not by as much as you might expect - the biggest difference I've heard it make is in Sony's mirrorless cameras, which have an unusually protracted full-mechanical cycle, whose duration is noticeably shortened by EFCS, which is very helpful (though the actual volume remains quite loud).  Your Olympus E-M5 (original, presumably) has a fairly quiet example of a non-EFCS shutter, actually, though the Mark II version (which has EFCS as an option) is rather quieter, including when not using EFCS.

As you say, Canon does use EFCS in its mirrorless models, and the original EOS M has a nice, well-damped shutter sound, a bit quieter than the E-M5 but not as quiet as the GM1.  Yet the EOS M3 is considerably louder and sharper.  I'm hoping the M5 will be quieter than that model.

OP PeetieT New Member • Posts: 9
Re: E-shutter in Canon EOS M5?

I think I'm still holding off. 1 movement can still be very loud when taking a shot of a sleeping baby I've checked A6000 shutter noise and it is quite loud.

And now Canon has a though time A6500 out. Though the price is going into the insane category.

I'm thinking whether an LX10 would be enough. It is still more expensive then an A6000.

Riccardo Polini Senior Member • Posts: 1,412
Re: E-shutter in Canon EOS M5?

PeetieT wrote:

IS there an e-shutter in Canon EOS M5? Haven't seen it in the specs, so I'm guessing not.

thetechhimself wrote:

No.

Helen wrote:

... Canon does use EFCS in its mirrorless models ...

I have not understood: is there any EFC option in the M5?

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Helen
Helen Veteran Member • Posts: 7,606
Re: E-shutter in Canon EOS M5?
1

Riccardo Polini wrote:

PeetieT wrote:

IS there an e-shutter in Canon EOS M5? Haven't seen it in the specs, so I'm guessing not.

thetechhimself wrote:

No.

Helen wrote:

... Canon does use EFCS in its mirrorless models ...

I have not understood: is there any EFC option in the M5?

If it's like the original EOS M (and the M3), they are permanently in EFCS mode.  This is only apparent with a visual check of the M3, as it doesn't sound like EFCS.  With such permanent EFCS, the shutter is usually built without a full mechanical first curtain, just the second one is present.

jwilliams Veteran Member • Posts: 6,385
Re: E-shutter in Canon EOS M5?
1

Riccardo Polini wrote:

PeetieT wrote:

IS there an e-shutter in Canon EOS M5? Haven't seen it in the specs, so I'm guessing not.

thetechhimself wrote:

No.

Helen wrote:

... Canon does use EFCS in its mirrorless models ...

I have not understood: is there any EFC option in the M5?

There is not option since the camera always operates with an electronic first curtain.  This is apparently the only mode as other have stated it does not have a fully electronic option.

In short, the camera operates in EFC mode all the time with no other optionss.

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Jonathan

Riccardo Polini Senior Member • Posts: 1,412
Re: E-shutter in Canon EOS M5?

jwilliams wrote:

There is not option since the camera always operates with an electronic first curtain. This is apparently the only mode as other have stated it does not have a fully electronic option.

In short, the camera operates in EFC mode all the time with no other optionss.

And why Canon doesn't tell ?

Canon USA clearly states (about M3 shutter): "Vertical-travel, mechanical, focal-plane shutter with all speeds electronically controlled. Electronic 1st curtain and mechanical 2nd curtain (Hybrid Single Blade Shutter)."

In M6/M5 features page, they write: "Electronic controlled focal-plane shutter" (just). No mention to EFCS mode. I understand they do not mention EFCS anymore because they removed it in later models.

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casey1823
casey1823 Senior Member • Posts: 1,856
Re: E-shutter in Canon EOS M5?

PeetieT wrote:

I think I'm still holding off. 1 movement can still be very loud when taking a shot of a sleeping baby I've checked A6000 shutter noise and it is quite loud.

If a baby wakes up from sleeping from the shutter of the M5 it's not the cameras fault.

And now Canon has a though time A6500 out. Though the price is going into the insane category.

I'm thinking whether an LX10 would be enough. It is still more expensive then an A6000.

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casey1823
casey1823 Senior Member • Posts: 1,856
Re: E-shutter in Canon EOS M5?

PeetieT wrote:

IS there an e-shutter in Canon EOS M5? Haven't seen it in the specs, so I'm guessing not.

Btw, I think a lot of people are saying it is a big disappointment, I think it is going to spur a bit of race between Sony & Canon, which is very healthy! Especially after A6300 got a bit short on new features as well (e.g. touch focus selection).

Not to sure where you getting your information about being disappointed, lots of happy users on this forum. Been following for about a year now.

Casey

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Andy01 Veteran Member • Posts: 5,188
Re: E-shutter in Canon EOS M5?

casey1823 wrote:

PeetieT wrote:

IS there an e-shutter in Canon EOS M5? Haven't seen it in the specs, so I'm guessing not.

Btw, I think a lot of people are saying it is a big disappointment, I think it is going to spur a bit of race between Sony & Canon, which is very healthy! Especially after A6300 got a bit short on new features as well (e.g. touch focus selection).

Not to sure where you getting your information about being disappointed, lots of happy users on this forum. Been following for about a year now.

Casey

Perhaps because you are replying to a 2 year old thread.

After a year you should know that many people on DPR bags the living daylights of any newly released Canon body (generally without actually having touched the thing in real life - like apparently PeetieT above), only to release after some actual real live (with a pulse) users start saying that it is actually quite good.

Back then many people here seemed to expect that the M5 would be a Sony A7ii in a original M body with the ergonomics of a 5D iv at the price of a SL1 and were disappointed when it wasn't.

Same happened with the 6D ii - expectations were for a 5D iv, with the DR of a Nikon 850/ Sony A7 xxx, the size of a 6D and at the price of a 80D, and people here were devastated when that didn't happen.

Colin

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